East Crazy Mountain Land Exchange

[Straight Arrow]

They want to build another private ski resort with the emphasis on heli skiing.

You can confirm your rumor? How?

(Out here at Gateway, it's Yellowstone Club/Cross Harbor Capital central with rumors flying around like pigeons. Most are merely speculative guesses, but what's actually happening is even worse. The overwhelming development and the ugly transformation of the beautiful historic Gallatin Gateway Inn will soon transform this heretofore quaint little rural town into CrossHarborVille, the Big Sty mancamp!)

 

[RobG]

You can confirm your rumor? How?

(Out here at Gateway, it's Yellowstone Club/Cross Harbor Capital central with rumors flying around like pigeons. Most are merely speculative guesses, but what's actually happening is even worse. The overwhelming development and the ugly transformation of the beautiful historic Gallatin Gateway Inn will soon transform this heretofore quaint little rural town into CrossHarborVille, the Big Sty mancamp!)

YC is getting 0 acres in the Crazy Mountains from this swap; the land they are giving up will be exchanged for land adjacent to their ski area in Big Sky (aka Inspiration Divide). Presumably they want to expand their ski area, which is why ski lifts, etc are being allowed. The opposition to this has been minimal leading up to the proposal.

Here is why they are involved in the Crazies: As originally proposed the swap at Inspiration Divide came up a little short so the Forest Service suggested they add value to the Crazy Mountain part of the swap. That's why the consultants were hired to hammer out the details, and that's why they are paying for the trail to be built. As a last minute bonus they gave up the section of land with Smeller Lake on it.

 

[Straight Arrow]

YC is getting 0 acres in the Crazy Mountains from this swap; the land they are giving up will be exchanged for land adjacent to their ski area in Big Sky (aka Inspiration Divide). Presumably they want to expand their ski area, which is why ski lifts, etc are being allowed. The opposition to this has been minimal leading up to the proposal.

Here is why they are involved in the Crazies: As originally proposed the swap at Inspiration Divide came up a little short so the Forest Service suggested they add value to the Crazy Mountain part of the swap. That's why the consultants were hired to hammer out the details, and that's why they are paying for the trail to be built. As a last minute bonus they gave up the section of land with Smeller Lake on it.

That does seem to fit the YC plans for expanding areas south of Big Sky and near the $$$ Club.

 

[MTTW]

That section with Smeller lake is worth having. I don't know how many people involved in this have been there but I have and it is valuable.

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

Maddy Munson: Latest Crazies land exchange proposal still inadequate

Maddy Munson is an attorney and the Public Lands Director at Wild Montana. She nails some of the failures with the east crazies exchange.

"We also have concerns about how the Forest Service has analyzed the potential environmental effects of this land exchange. When considering potential impacts on wildlife and other ecosystem values, the agency must consider all reasonably foreseeable future actions, including those by federal and non-federal parties. Instead of considering the effects on wildlife if the newly exchanged parcels were to be developed, the analysis concludes that because the landowners intend to leave the land undeveloped, there will be no negative effects on wildlife. This underlying assumption, based on landowners’ current intentions but not on trends in Montana that are turning our outdoors into playgrounds for the rich, is a major flaw in the analysis. That’s why we are asking the Forest Service to fully analyze potential environmental effects if the low-lying lands proposed for private ownership are not protected with conservation easements or stronger deed restrictions and are left open for subsequent development."

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

You can follow this link to read Montana BHA's Objections to the East Crazy Inspiration Divide Land Exchange:
Montana BHA's Objection to Draft Decision on East Crazy Inspiration Divide Land Exchange

Below is a summary of our objections/comments:
A. The Forest Service fails to consider the alternative of defending and/or litigating the historical access shown and described in the Travel Management Plan and National Forest Land Management Plan.
B. The “Purpose and Need” for the Project, as defined in the EA, are not met by the project proposal.
C. The Forest Service should not abandon its outstanding public access claims.
D. Modified Proposed Action must specifically identify deed restrictions for protection of wetlands and include specific development prohibitions in riparian areas.
E. The EA fails to evaluate the impending listing of wolverines under the ESA.
F. The EA fails to analyze the effects of the severed mineral rights for the parcels acquired by Forest Service
G. The EA still fails to disclose exact contract language or agreement provisions as it relates to proposed deed restrictions and conservation easements.
H. The Proposed Modified Action sets a dangerous precedent by reinforcing and rewarding negative and anti-public behavior of the landowners involved.
I. Forest Service must disclose the valuation of the land and severed water rights.

Comments are due no later than midnight on Monday Nov 13th.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=63115&exp=overview

 

[RobG]

Reportedly the website has been crashing so try to get your comments in early. My major issue is the lack of conservation easements.

Wild Montana has a decent blog post on the exchange. https://wildmontana.org/2023/10/23/...ains-land-exchange-proposal-still-inadequate/

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

Reportedly the website has been crashing so try to get your comments in early. My major issue is the lack of conservation easements.

Wild Montana has a decent blog post on the exchange. https://wildmontana.org/2023/10/23/...ains-land-exchange-proposal-still-inadequate/

Wild Montana's blog is good. I agree that lack of permanent conservation easements (on lands and wetlands) is a problem, but there are many others... Loss of historical access is problem. Significant loss of elk habitat and elk wintering grounds is problem. Loss of public fishing opportunity is a problem. Failure to meet the stated goal of the exchange is a problem. Failure to provide the public with alternatives is a problem. Failure to obtain mineral rights is a problem. Failure to get water rights on Smeller Lake is problem. Failure to provide the public with land valuations is a problem... The list goes on.

 

[2ski]

That section with Smeller lake is worth having. I don't know how many people involved in this have been there but I have and it is valuable.

Where is it?

 

[MTTW]

Where is it?

It is a couple miles below Rock Lake on the east side of Rock creek.

 

[RobG]

Where is it?

Here's a broader picture. Smeller is in Parcel K at the bottom. It is a few miles north of the Rock Creek trailhead.

 

[Zac-K]

YC is getting 0 acres in the Crazy Mountains from this swap; the land they are giving up will be exchanged for land adjacent to their ski area in Big Sky (aka Inspiration Divide). Presumably they want to expand their ski area, which is why ski lifts, etc are being allowed. The opposition to this has been minimal leading up to the proposal.

Here is why they are involved in the Crazies: As originally proposed the swap at Inspiration Divide came up a little short so the Forest Service suggested they add value to the Crazy Mountain part of the swap. That's why the consultants were hired to hammer out the details, and that's why they are paying for the trail to be built. As a last minute bonus they gave up the section of land with Smeller Lake on it.

I just read this.
You would be correct per this exchange YC doesn’t directly get acres in the Crazies.

BUT laughable if you think that YC has no interest in the Crazies. As the months and years have went by during this exchange the proof of what YC’s intentions are in the crazies are being built in plain sight on the West side of the Crazies. If you think they are not going to pounce once this fleecing of the public landowner exchange hits the finish line on the East side you are getting played just like the FS brass who is ramming this through.

For profit billionaires don’t do things out of the goodness of their heart. They’ve been playing chess all along and my money is on the same folks who aligned with YC on the East side will continue to profit with YC after.

 

[RobG]

I just read this.
You would be correct per this exchange YC doesn’t directly get acres in the Crazies.

Thank you.

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

This is likely the best exposé so far about the access issues and the East Crazy Land Exchange...

https://inthesetimes.com/article/cr...j14KsFqsoaRCModAtuj_98kXL1iS1HF5CXvaMa_igJRBM

 

[Horseman]

This is likely the best exposé so far about the access issues and the East Crazy Land Exchange...

https://inthesetimes.com/article/cr...j14KsFqsoaRCModAtuj_98kXL1iS1HF5CXvaMa_igJRBM

My big takeaway from this is that I’m reminded again of how Steve Daines has the moral compass of a sewer rat. I hope his future is bleak and sad. I remember that airtime Randy gave Steve on his podcast-Steve rambled on and on about his love for public land and elk while skirting the questions and answers that mattered most to the HT audience. As I listened to that podcast, I could tell he was as full of dogsh*t as the worst politician ever was. I ate dinner next to Daines and his big perfectly made up family at Stacy’s one evening and there is no way that short, fat, pale ratman has enjoyed a real elk hunt in the last decade.

 

[Horseman]

My big takeaway from this is that I’m reminded again of how Steve Daines has the moral compass of a sewer rat. I hope his future is bleak and sad. I remember that airtime Randy gave Steve on his podcast-Steve rambled on and on about his love for public land and elk while skirting the questions and answers that mattered most to the HT audience. As I listened to that podcast, I could tell he was as full of dogsh*t as the worst politician ever was. I ate dinner next to Daines and his big perfectly made up family at Stacy’s one evening and there is no way that short, fat, pale ratman has enjoyed a real elk hunt in the last decade.

Steve Daine’s eyes are way too close together also. Probably some double Daines in his pedigree

 

[Labman]

My big takeaway from this is that I’m reminded again of how Steve Daines has the moral compass of a sewer rat. I hope his future is bleak and sad. I remember that airtime Randy gave Steve on his podcast-Steve rambled on and on about his love for public land and elk while skirting the questions and answers that mattered most to the HT audience. As I listened to that podcast, I could tell he was as full of dogsh*t as the worst politician ever was. I ate dinner next to Daines and his big perfectly made up family at Stacy’s one evening and there is no way that short, fat, pale ratman has enjoyed a real elk hunt in the last decade.

If Senator Daines is “a short, fat, pale ratman” can we get a description of Senator Tester, a politician with a no kidding “really bleak future”?

 

[Horseman]

If Senator Daines is “a short, fat, pale ratman” can we get a description of Senator Tester, a politician with a no kidding “really bleak future”?

Sienkiewicz seemed to be acting in line with agency policy of “defending historic trail access rights if challenged,” as one 2002Forest Service briefing paper put it. But the ranger’s approach angered some landowners who, in late 2016 and early 2017, complained about his “aggressive attitude” in letters to his Forest Service higher-ups, Montana Republican Sen. Steve Daines and Sonny Perdue, then-Secretary of Agriculture. (The Department of Agriculture oversees the Forest Service.) The ranger, they said, was encouraging trespass to re-establish long-abandoned trails. Daines met with a group of Crazy Mountain landowners and, in a May 2017 letter, passed their concerns on to Thomas Tidwell, then-Forest Service Chief.
You didn’t need money to walk miles of uncrowded trail, where you might pass other locals but also people out for the weekend from Bozeman or Billings (or even Baltimore or Bucharest—the public lands of the Crazies are free to anyone who can get there).
A few weeks later, the Forest Service abruptly removed Sienkiewicz from his post as district ranger, reassigned him to a role in the Forest Supervisor’s Office and announced an investigation into his conduct.

Hey Labman-according to the article above, it was Daines that called Sonny Purdue up to request that his Forest Service employees stop using/maintaining/defending 100 year old public access easements to the Crazy Mountains. The intention of Steve Daines’ phone call to Sonny Purdue was to terminate (in the most sneaky way possible) 100 year old historic easements through trophy private ranchland to publicly owned FS land…7 or 8 years later, that is exactly what has happened- 99% of the voting public has lost realistic access to public land so that a couple large landowners and luxury real estate developers can take what they want. Labman, I think you were the first person to mention Tester in this thread…do you know if Tester has ever asked the US Secretary of Agriculture to abandon historic public access easements to the Crazy Mountains?

 

[RobG]

Tester is a good man. I communicated with his staff quite a bit through my trespassing ticket, and he has been an advocate for the public in the Crazies. Daines wouldn't get involved with me. You can bet Sheehy won't be for public access either.

 

[Labman]

Sienkiewicz seemed to be acting in line with agency policy of “defending historic trail access rights if challenged,” as one 2002Forest Service briefing paper put it. But the ranger’s approach angered some landowners who, in late 2016 and early 2017, complained about his “aggressive attitude” in letters to his Forest Service higher-ups, Montana Republican Sen. Steve Daines and Sonny Perdue, then-Secretary of Agriculture. (The Department of Agriculture oversees the Forest Service.) The ranger, they said, was encouraging trespass to re-establish long-abandoned trails. Daines met with a group of Crazy Mountain landowners and, in a May 2017 letter, passed their concerns on to Thomas Tidwell, then-Forest Service Chief.
You didn’t need money to walk miles of uncrowded trail, where you might pass other locals but also people out for the weekend from Bozeman or Billings (or even Baltimore or Bucharest—the public lands of the Crazies are free to anyone who can get there).
A few weeks later, the Forest Service abruptly removed Sienkiewicz from his post as district ranger, reassigned him to a role in the Forest Supervisor’s Office and announced an investigation into his conduct.

Hey Labman-according to the article above, it was Daines that called Sonny Purdue up to request that his Forest Service employees stop using/maintaining/defending 100 year old public access easements to the Crazy Mountains. The intention of Steve Daines’ phone call to Sonny Purdue was to terminate (in the most sneaky way possible) 100 year old historic easements through trophy private ranchland to publicly owned FS land…7 or 8 years later, that is exactly what has happened- 99% of the voting public has lost realistic access to public land so that a couple large landowners and luxury real estate developers can take what they want. Labman, I think you were the first person to mention Tester in this thread…do you know if Tester has ever asked the US Secretary of Agriculture to abandon historic public access easements to the Crazy Mountains?

Just like probably everyone else on here I disagree with what Senator Daines did. What you did was attack his physical appearance and his family (for being what, too American?)
Since Senator Tester is our only other Senator, with a very bleak future, I just wanted to see if you were impartial enough to disparage his appearance since that seems to be an issue for you, and he is obviously +100 lbs heavier than Senator Daines. I guess dragging someone’s weight, looks, and family into the discussion only happens if you disagree with them politically. NBD, your left wing comrades won’t call you out on it but it is pretty JV, please continue.