Down Help

[ThunderNocked]

I have a EddieBauer Cirrus Light 650 fill down jacket. I’m thinking about switching that out.
I really want the Stone Glacier Grumman Goose in Gray, however I’m wondering what other good options are out there.
My buddy got a Mountain Hardwear Mt Eyak and it was a warmer, puffier jacket.

What are the top couple Down Jackets I should check out? I am a bit money conscious but I want to buy the SG Grumman Goose unless you convince me to buy something else!
I’m hunting in Alaska, my last Caribou hunt was -10 before windchill. I’ll use this for late seasons and mountain hunts.

thanks.

 

[Wildabeest]

If you’re going to wear it as an outer layer, you may want to check out the Outdoor Research Blacktail. It’s has a really durable outer material that will stand up to abrasions much better than typical puffy coats.

 

[ThunderNocked]

If you’re going to wear it as an outer layer, you may want to check out the Outdoor Research Blacktail. It’s has a really durable outer material that will stand up to abrasions much better than typical puffy coats.

I'll definitely check that out! I really like SG and want to support them but I'm not specifically needing their gear. I want something good for hunting but I'll probably wear it to the office too as winters here in Fairbanks can get freaking cold. That is honestly the biggest thing I've noticed this year the Down Jacket doesn't feel as warm and I'm not sure if it is the fill power, the thinner pockets, or something else.
I know there are better brands then Eddie Bauer.
I'll definitely check out the Blacktail!

 

[Deleted member 28227]

RAB, Feathered Friends, Arc'teryx are other brands to consider.

 

[Irrelevant]

IDK, Eddie Bauer makes a pretty good one: https://www.eddiebauer.com/p/388322243/jackets-for-men?color=Ascent Blue&sp=1&size=

It's usually 40% off, it's not right now, but it will be again soon I'm sure.

I went with an 400g synthetic for my extreme cold coat (millet).

I've heard really good things about Montbell: https://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=25148&p_id=2301281&gen_cd=1

 

[Irrelevant]

And if we're just talking about staying warm then there's always: https://www.canadagoose.com/us/en/e...+5:+BELOW+-25°F&start=1&cgid=shop-mens-parkas

 

[Jape]

Brands mentioned by @wllm1313 and @Wildabeast are good (especially arc'teryx but that is is pricey). GoHunt did a video on the SG stuff (below) and I think Sartini may have rocked them this year, but could be wrong. Looks like good stuff. Considering buying some of their rain gear but it's not cheaper then Sitka, Kuiu, or FL.

 

[ntodwild]

Take a look at Montbell light series products. I have had really good luck with quality, weight to warmth and packability. So many options on the market. Just something to consider.

 

[MTLabrador]

IDK, Eddie Bauer makes a pretty good one: https://www.eddiebauer.com/p/388322243/jackets-for-men?color=Ascent Blue&sp=1&size=

It's usually 40% off, it's not right now, but it will be again soon I'm sure.

Their Downlight 800 fill jacket is a great lighter weight down jacket too. I use that for my all around puffy and a Sitka Kelvin down windstopper for the real arctic conditions. It’s very warm and wind resistant.

 

[Moosie]

I'm bias but I'd recommend the Pak-Jak......

www.pakjak.us

 

[Deleted member 28227]

(especially arc'teryx but that is is pricey).

I've purchased gear from most of big name companies over the years, IMHO Arc'teryx build quality can't be matched. Item for item, it's just better and in my experience the price difference.

Example company A. Might have a gortex jacket with critically taped seams, meaning there is waterproof tape covering the stitching in high use and exposed areas. Company B. has fully taped seams so all the main seams plus places that aren't necessarily exposed to the elements.

Then there's Arc'teryx, your digging for your keys in your pocket and realized those psychos taped the seams on the inside of the eternal pockets.

Do you need your pockets taped, and is that worth $250 extra

 

[Deleted member 16014]

A few thoughts, worth what you paid...
In my experience it's very tough to beat the performance to price ratio of MontBell on insulation, even at full retail. Particularly if you're counting ounces to some extent. Wide range of fills and configurations to meet different needs. I've had at least 3 different down jackets and one synthetic of theirs over the years. Montbell's DWR is pretty good as well. I concur Feathered Friends, Rab, Arc'teryx, and some MH are great. Eddie Bauer is very decent for the money and like neffa said it goes on sale all the time. I'm sure the WM Meltdown is great but that $500 price point is a barrier to entry and I can't fathom it's markedly better than FF on build quality or materials.

When you're comparing, look closely at down load (keep fill power in mind), face fabric construction, and overall weight. There's no free lunch. I don't bust brush with down on, and I'm content with 15-20 denier at a minimum on an exterior fabric. I like two exterior hand warmer pockets, one internal chest pocket, and basically nothing else. Personal preference. I also don't really like a waterproof/breathable exterior membrane on down, I want it to breathe and dry better than wp/b's can and when it's super cold (sub zero) those membranes get stiff and more prone to puncture. Less prone to snags/pulls though. Box wall baffles are not a deal breaker to me either way but it does make a difference in functional performance. Worth the weight? Depends on the person and how hard you're gonna lean on it. Also if you're tossing an oversized shell over or using the puffy belay style while stopped. I use mine over top of everything...if it's wet enough to need a shell I don't need a monster puffy on anyway.

The Grumman is probably a great jacket; I like Pertex Quantum, I love SG and use their gear. But I do not personally like treated down. In my experience with DownTek it does not retain loft as well over time compared to untreated down. They use a different treated down (HyperDry), so maybe it's not apples to apples. If you look at the highest end down manufacturers (FF, WM, Valandre) and serious end users you won't find a lot good to say about treated down over time compared to non if they've used both extensively; unless they're sponsored (edited to add: this is probably slightly controversial, don't flame me I'm mostly kidding) . Maybe the treatment is worth it to you for a small cost in loft -- for some I'm sure it is -- but for me it's dry and cold when I'm using my big puffies. If I was a betting man I wouldn't be surprised to see SG come out with a heavier range down parka than the Grumman in the coming season(s).

If I had to make a top pick for what you describe it's probably the Montbell Alpine Down Parka at $299. @NoWiser has one, you should ask him how he's liking it. It's not gonna be bombproof, but that's not what it's for. It more or less replaces one they used to make called the Frostline, which had two interior pockets and 30d fabric; otherwise basically the same.

If you're still reading that it was kind of you to hang in there on the geek-out session.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Couple Canadian companies that are good:
--Mountain Equipment is decent if you catch it on sale.
--Westcomb is on par with Arc'teryx on build quality and price (which figures since some fellows highly involved in Arc' left to start Westcomb), but I don't know if I've ever seen it more than 25% off. Also hard to find specs or even lay eyes on in person.

 

[Irrelevant]

A few thoughts, worth what you paid...
In my experience it's very tough to beat the performance to price ratio of MontBell on insulation, even at full retail. Particularly if you're counting ounces to some extent. Wide range of fills and configurations to meet different needs. I've had at least 3 different down jackets and one synthetic of theirs over the years. Montbell's DWR is pretty good as well. I concur Feathered Friends, Rab, Arc'teryx, and some MH are great. Eddie Bauer is very decent for the money and like neffa said it goes on sale all the time. I'm sure the WM Meltdown is great but that $500 price point is a barrier to entry and I can't fathom it's markedly better than FF on build quality or materials.

When you're comparing, look closely at down load (keep fill power in mind), face fabric construction, and overall weight. There's no free lunch. I don't bust brush with down on, and I'm content with 15-20 denier at a minimum on an exterior fabric. I like two exterior hand warmer pockets, one internal chest pocket, and basically nothing else. Personal preference. I also don't really like a waterproof/breathable exterior membrane on down, I want it to breathe and dry better than wp/b's can and when it's super cold (sub zero) those membranes get stiff and more prone to puncture. Less prone to snags/pulls though. Box wall baffles are not a deal breaker to me either way but it does make a difference in functional performance. Worth the weight? Depends on the person and how hard you're gonna lean on it. Also if you're tossing an oversized shell over or using the puffy belay style while stopped. I use mine over top of everything...if it's wet enough to need a shell I don't need a monster puffy on anyway.

The Grumman is probably a great jacket; I like Pertex Quantum, I love SG and use their gear. But I do not personally like treated down. In my experience with DownTek it does not retain loft as well over time compared to untreated down. They use a different treated down (HyperDry), so maybe it's not apples to apples. If you look at the highest end down manufacturers (FF, WM, Valandre) and serious end users you won't find a lot good to say about treated down over time compared to non if they've used both extensively; unless they're sponsored (edited to add: this is probably slightly controversial, don't flame me I'm mostly kidding) . Maybe the treatment is worth it to you for a small cost in loft -- for some I'm sure it is -- but for me it's dry and cold when I'm using my big puffies. If I was a betting man I wouldn't be surprised to see SG come out with a heavier range down parka than the Grumman in the coming season(s).

If I had to make a top pick for what you describe it's probably the Montbell Alpine Down Parka at $299. @NoWiser has one, you should ask him how he's liking it. It's not gonna be bombproof, but that's not what it's for. It more or less replaces one they used to make called the Frostline, which had two interior pockets and 30d fabric; otherwise basically the same.

If you're still reading that it was kind of you to hang in there on the geek-out session.

To the OP, WM = Western Mountaineering if you're not in the know. And I'm glad Snowy mentioned them as they are top shelf. Rokslide did a comparison between Kuiu treated and WM non treated in the rain. They concluded WM was drier and warmer.

 

[ThunderNocked]

Snowy thanks for the info. Lots of good and definitely more along the lines of my thinking. I liked the idea of the treated down because for Sheep, Caribou, Moose and Bear area all in the rainiest parts of the year But I have a Chugach Rain Jacket that I can throw on if needed. I spent some time moving in mine but like you said - most of the time this jacket is for sitting and staying warm. While moving I know that the down will heat up and soak up the moisture too much. I have a down jacket I've hiked/walked in. I've also been wearing it and suddenly found myself sweating in it due to activitiy and it gets wet and very flat.
Neffa - I'll check WM out.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

If I know it's gonna be wet with minimal chance to dry out, but cold enough to need a parka, I use a 130-170 g/m2 synthetic puffy. There are lots out there, the classic for like two decades was the Patagonia DAS. They quit making them for a few years and now the new version is like $450. The Integral Designs Dolomitti was the warmest synthetic I've owned hands down. FellFab bought the rights to produce Integral Designs and still makes it.

I currently use the NW Alpine Belay Jacket, they've been on sale for half price now and again.

For the guy who hunts a little or not too remote all this BS isn't worth the trouble, but if you use it lots of the year and/or do other outdoor activities living out of a pack I feel that having an insulation system pretty dialed in is handy. I could get by with down for 90+% of what I do all year, the central Rockies are really pretty arid.

 

[Irrelevant]

For a synthetic, again, it's hard to look away from Montbell for the price and performance: https://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=25149&p_id=2301210&gen_cd=1

 

[ThunderNocked]

If I know it's gonna be wet with minimal chance to dry out, but cold enough to need a parka, I use a 130-170 g/m2 synthetic puffy. There are lots out there, the classic for like two decades was the Patagonia DAS. They quit making them for a few years and now the new version is like $450. The Integral Designs Dolomitti was the warmest synthetic I've owned hands down. FellFab bought the rights to produce Integral Designs and still makes it.

I currently use the NW Alpine Belay Jacket, they've been on sale for half price now and again.

For the guy who hunts a little or not too remote all this BS isn't worth the trouble, but if you use it lots of the year and/or do other outdoor activities living out of a pack I feel that having an insulation system pretty dialed in is handy. I could get by with down for 90+% of what I do all year, the central Rockies are really pretty arid.

I did my first backpack hunt this last year but am planning several more.
This year I am planning 2-3 4-5 day sheep 'weekends', a couple moose hunts that at this point if things don't change I'll be hiking in for unfortunately as that will limit me alot more, and then I have a Caribou hunt on Adak where we will be hiking out. I also hunt off snow machines for the winter hunt and I like the down for that but again that is where like you said the Parka wouldn't be a big deal since you have the machine.
Great points.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I did my first backpack hunt this last year but am planning several more.
This year I am planning 2-3 4-5 day sheep 'weekends', a couple moose hunts that at this point if things don't change I'll be hiking in for unfortunately as that will limit me alot more, and then I have a Caribou hunt on Adak where we will be hiking out. I also hunt off snow machines for the winter hunt and I like the down for that but again that is where like you said the Parka wouldn't be a big deal since you have the machine.
Great points.

Adak is a really cool and really weird place...bit windy too

If you are going early be prepared to go deep.

 

[SRW]

I have an Arc'teryx Cerium LT that I really like. It's (I think) 850 fill power down everywhere except in the cuffs of the sleeve and the part of the collar that is directly in front of your mouth when fully zipped up. They use synthetic down in those spots since its performance does not degrade when wet, the way that natural down does.

I'd highly recommend this jacket if your search is not limited to hunting focused brands/products. I will note though -- and I think this has been mentioned -- but I wouldn't use this as an outermost layer in rough country. It's lightweight and very warm, but I'm not sure how durable it'd be in the thick stuff.