Crossbow because elbow injury

[Nick87]

I find it funny as well, how archers bad mouth crossbows. Where I live it's only legal to use a crossbow for archery if you have you dr fill out a mobility impairment form. I know a few people who do use crossbows for archery. They are legal for muzzleloader and our rifle, which is any legal sporting arm season. For me I don't care what you use whatever gets you outdoors and puts meat in your freezer do it. People bad mouth crossbow, yet modern rifles are so advances it's crazy. Muzzleloader can now shoot up to 1000 yards. Just crazy the things people choose to target and try to diminish.

Have you ever thought maybe the same people who aren't in favor of crossbows aren't in favor of shooting animals witha rifle at long range either?

 

[Vanishe187]

Have you ever thought maybe the same people who aren't in favor of crossbows aren't in favor of shooting animals witha rifle at long range either?

That maybe the case who knows. I personally don't really care what weapon anyone uses. As long as it gets you outdoors and puts food on the table. It's great that we have multiple options nowadays to hunt with.

 

[Nick87]

That maybe the case who knows. I personally don't really care what weapon anyone uses. As long as it gets you outdoors and puts food on the table. It's great that we have multiple options nowadays to hunt with.

Options are great but season structures need to change accordingly see @rogerthat post.l above.

 

[Sytes]

Your post ignores the fact that increased success equals reduced opportunity. Reduced opportunity is the death knell for hunting in the long term. So technology increases are not good for hunting in the long term. That’s why we as hunters should be supporting regulations and weapon restrictions that reduce success and increase opportunities. Think of the lost opportunity west wide with 100% success rates across the board. A Punched tag for moderating ungulate population goal ignores the reality of hunters being a huge minority at the voting booth.

I tend to agree w/ Buzz on this topic.
Do a search of Crossbow and Buzz and you can read more in depth. Or go to the thread shared below in the screen clip. The snippets share what would otherwise take me far too much time to quote each for a simple response.

 

[Sytes]

We should be focused more on:

Season structure and better counts / tag allocation

 

[Elky Welky]

Good on the OP here! I have no problem with crossbows being used for deer. I've killed a couple of deer with a crossbow during Montana's rifle seasons and in weapons-restricted areas during the same time. I don't generally object to them, particularly as an effective tool for deer during rifle season. I do object to them being used during Montana's archery-only season on elk, for all kinds of reasons.

I disagree with Buzz. Despite the fact that contemporary compound bows shoot arrows at similar speeds to crossbow bolts, they require something crossbows don't: commitment and practice, and knowing when to draw. Even with 80% letoff, you can't hold a compound bow back forever. Many archery stalks are blown in the final moment of needing to draw, and that adds to the hunt. And people with fancy compounds spend far more time practicing. A crossbow takes all of an hour or two to be proficient out to pretty extreme ranges, which can also lead to unethical shots in the field. (Again, this is all in reference to elk hunting. The differences become more negligeable when you are sitting in a tree or a blind for deer).

As has been litigated multiple times in MT as well, the permit-to-modify archery equipment is the appropriate route to go down if drawing a bow is no longer a possibility due to injury or disability.

 

[rogerthat]

I tend to agree w/ Buzz on this topic.
Do a search of Crossbow and Buzz and you can read more in depth. Or go to the thread shared below in the screen clip. The snippets share what would otherwise take me far too much time to quote each for a simple response.

View attachment 322046

Yeah I’m pretty up on Buzz’s take on crossbows . It’s okay we can disagree. Count me in the Buzz is wrong on this one camp.

 

[Wildabeest]

I tend to agree w/ Buzz on this topic.
Do a search of Crossbow and Buzz and you can read more in depth. Or go to the thread shared below in the screen clip. The snippets share what would otherwise take me far too much time to quote each for a simple response.

View attachment 322046

Here’s what Google returns for “Buzz Crossbow”…

 

[Sytes]

A crossbow takes all of an hour or two to be proficient out to pretty extreme ranges, which can also lead to unethical shots in the field.

The exact same can be said about compound sliding sights and cams - the enhanced creation from recurve/longbow.

From an ethical standpoint, (always subjective) a scoped crossbow has a higher percentage placement shot than holding string to cheek peep to release at some ridiculous 90+ yards.

Range finder scopes linked with CDS dials. Reach out and touch far beyond the original. We hear more and more about the distance of shot taken - beyond my ethical range.

As I mentioned in my 2nd post after congratulating the OP, the State purpose of "hunting" should be the conservation intent. Season structure, population #'s, tag allocation.

Reality, I'm all for traditional muzzleloaders splitting or taking the last week of archery in MT. Though that's a preference - completely unrelated to the purpose hunting serves conservation.

 

[Elky Welky]

The exact same can be said about compound sliding sights and cams - the enhanced creation from recurve/longbow.

From an ethical standpoint, (always subjective) a scoped crossbow has a higher percentage placement shot than holding string to cheek peep to release at some ridiculous 90+ yards.

Don't necessarily disagree, except to reiterate the point I made before: the compound shooter is more likely to commit and practice, which counters this argument here.

 

[shannerdrake]

So muzzle loaders aren't a firearm?

Dude, what are you arguing? Muzzleloaders have their own season!

Yes you are right. Congrats, muzzleloaders are a type do firearm (well sort of, not according to ATF, but that’s besides the point).

My point is that during the 16 day FIREARMS SEASON, 60% (approximately) of the deer are killed. If your or anyone’s beef against crossbows is their “lethality” then that argument holds no water.

BTW, your point actually helps my point. Throw in the 16 day MUZZLELOADER SEASON, in just 32 days, over 70% of the deer are killed.

Crossbows take only 15% of the deer in a 90+ days season.

 

[Nick87]

Crossbows take only 15% of the deer in a 90+ days season.

How many did they take prior?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Good on the OP here! I have no problem with crossbows being used for deer. I've killed a couple of deer with a crossbow during Montana's rifle seasons and in weapons-restricted areas during the same time. I don't generally object to them, particularly as an effective tool for deer during rifle season. I do object to them being used during Montana's archery-only season on elk, for all kinds of reasons.

I disagree with Buzz. Despite the fact that contemporary compound bows shoot arrows at similar speeds to crossbow bolts, they require something crossbows don't: commitment and practice, and knowing when to draw. Even with 80% letoff, you can't hold a compound bow back forever. Many archery stalks are blown in the final moment of needing to draw, and that adds to the hunt. And people with fancy compounds spend far more time practicing. A crossbow takes all of an hour or two to be proficient out to pretty extreme ranges, which can also lead to unethical shots in the field. (Again, this is all in reference to elk hunting. The differences become more negligeable when you are sitting in a tree or a blind for deer).

As has been litigated multiple times in MT as well, the permit-to-modify archery equipment is the appropriate route to go down if drawing a bow is no longer a possibility due to injury or disability.

Elky is right.

The act of drawing, waiting, holding, shooting cant be understated.

 

[shannerdrake]

Your post ignores the fact that increased success equals reduced opportunity. Reduced opportunity is the death knell for hunting in the long term. So technology increases are not good for hunting in the long term. That’s why we as hunters should be supporting regulations and weapon restrictions that reduce success and increase opportunities. Think of the lost opportunity west wide with 100% success rates across the board. A Punched tag for moderating ungulate population goal ignores the reality of hunters being a huge minority at the voting booth.

Do you have data on this?

In Indiana, bow hunters (trad, compound, and xbow) take 25% of the deer. That breaks down to about 14% xbow, 10% compound, 1% trad bow.

Interestingly, you can pull the data in Indiana and look at almost 20 years of data and you will find that the bow harvest has been extremely consistent. Never going above 30 or below 20. Strangely the total bow harvest is actually down a bit over the last 3-4 years. This harvest data is relatively consistent pre and post crossbow legalization.

However, the total rifle harvest has climbed steadily since centerfire rifles were legalized. In 2008 Indiana only allowed pistol caliber rifles for legal take and those only accounted for 1% of total harvest. Today rifles take 60% of our deer.

 

[DFS]

Do you have data on this?

In Indiana, bow hunters (trad, compound, and xbow) take 25% of the deer. That breaks down to about 14% xbow, 10% compound, 1% trad bow.

Interestingly, you can pull the data in Indiana and look at almost 20 years of data and you will find that the bow harvest has been extremely consistent. Never going above 30 or below 20. Strangely the total bow harvest is actually down a bit over the last 3-4 years. This harvest data is relatively consistent pre and post crossbow legalization.

However, the total rifle harvest has climbed steadily since centerfire rifles were legalized. In 2008 Indiana only allowed pistol caliber rifles for legal take and those only accounted for 1% of total harvest. Today rifles take 60% of our deer.

His data probably includes the beating that mule deer are taking with long range rifles during the rut in Montana. Increase the hunters effectiveness and see what you get.

 

[shannerdrake]

How many did they take prior?

Prior to legalization? 0%.

Since legalized they have climbed and topped out at 15%.

And as much as they have climbed, compound harvest percent had fallen.

Point being, crossbow hunters are almost entirely compound hunters switching over.

 

[shannerdrake]

His data probably includes the beating that mule deer are taking with long range rifles during the rut in Montana. Increase the hunters effectiveness and see what you get.

We did. We legalized centerfire rifles and have set record harvests.

And we have seen bonus anterless tags fall. My county was a 6 anterless county before centerfire rifles. It has fallen every year or two and is now a 1 anterless tag county.

 

[Nick87]

Prior to legalization? 0%.

Since legalized they have climbed and topped out at 15%.

And as much as they have climbed, compound harvest percent had fallen.

Point being, crossbow hunters are almost entirely compound hunters switching over.

I should have asked that differently how many deer in archery season before crossbows being legal. How many after?

 

[DFS]

If we want wildlife to thrive and hunting to continue technology needs to be limited acrossed the board. Bows and rifles.

 

[Nick87]

If we want wildlife to thrive and hunting to continue technology needs to be limited acrossed the board. Bows and rifles.

Exactly, and we go the exact opposite way every day. Because we need more ways to "fill the freezer" and "more opportunity to get out in the woods." The opportunity is more than abundant. Give me a phuggin break.