Critique my (rough) 5 year plan

[Tiredofthebickering]

Howdy y'all! At one point I hope I can contribute as much to this forum as I take away from it, but I'm leaning on the collective wisdom of HuntTalk again.

My dad and I have been working on a rough 5+ year plan for our elk hunting adventures and have come up with the following. If anyone would be able and willing to give me any thoughts on things I might not be considering that would be great.

Our overall goal is to be hunting elk (on any tag type; any elk, bull only, antlerless, etc) every year in either Idaho, Wyoming, Montana or Colorado. Ideally, we'd also build points in each state so that we pull a better opportunity tag (objective, I'm sure) every few years. Additionally, we'll continue researching each of these states each year so we're more prepared when we finally get to go. Hopefully we'll each be able to hang our tag on our first elk at some point during this process.

Edit because I was unclear: In both Wyoming and Montana we're only looking to draw a general tag and hunt general units.

Year 1 (2019) - No points anywhere
This year we are going to OTC archery hunt Idaho. We've never been to the unit but we've hunted nearby and we're pretty comfortable with the terrain and our E-scouting so far this year. Additionally we bought a point in Colorado and intend to buy one in Wyoming.

Year 2 (2020) - 1 point in each Wyoming and Colorado
We'll put in for the general tag in Wyoming but won't expect to draw (unless we get lucky in the random drawing). As a second and third choice we're leaning towards a couple different type 4 tags that look like we have a pretty chance of drawing while preserving our 1 point. We'll additionally put in for a reduced price cow/calf tag with the ultimate goal of hunting elk somewhere in Wyoming, preferably in a general tag unit until we can return to another time (see year 4). If we fail to pull a Wyoming tag we'll likely go back to Idaho on an OTC tag.

We'll also buy another point in Wyoming, Colorado, and Montana.

Year 3 (2021) - 2 points Wyoming, 2 points Colorado, 1 point Montana
Our goal in 2021 is to pull a general big game combo tag in Montana with 1 point. It seems like that is less and less of a sure thing, but hopefully we'll still have pretty good odds in 2021 (should we buy a point in 2019 to be sure?). We're not at all concerned about pulling a limited entry unit tag. Our goal will be just to research the various units and go enjoy the hunt while learning the animals and habitat and a general tag unit for future trips. If we fail to draw, we'll fall back on Idaho on an OTC tag again (hopefully knowing the area fairly well by now).

We'll also buy another point in Wyoming and Colorado.

Year 4 (2022) - 3 points Wyoming, 3 points Colorado
This year we'll hopefully pull the general tag in Wyoming, but we'll also have similar type 4 tags as our second and third choices so we'll have a good chance of going back to hunt elk either way. We'll also put in for the reduced tags again. Hopefully we'll have learned something in year 2 that will prove fruitful in 2020.

We'll also buy another point in Colorado

Year 5 (2023) - 4 points in Colorado
We're still early in the research, but I'm hoping that 4 points in Colorado is enough to get us away from some of the pressure with a bull or any elk tag in our pocket during a rifle season. I have very little idea if that is possibility and, if not, we're certainly open to an antlerless tag or archery tag is a less pressured area.

We'll plan on buying a point in Wyoming and Montana.

Year 6 and beyond
At this point the cycle will hopefully kind of repeat itself with hunting either Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming every year on either an OTC, general, or cow/calf tag. We're thinking Colorado would be every 4 - 5 years (to get into less pressured units/hunts) and we'll cycle through our points in each state at least every 5 years. Dad is going to be 55 in July and, while not an old man by any stretch, has no interest in waiting another 10-20 years to pull a "prime" elk tag. At some point we'll likely start putting in for other states like New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah, but the cost for us right now gets slightly prohibitive after a point.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and any help is greatly appreciated. If I need to clarify anything please ask me and I'll do my best.

 

[WIbiggame]

That is awesome you have a plan in place I have 1 thing.

In Montana you can only use a preference point for the general big game combo. The bonus point I am assuming you bought is just good for limited entry units in Montana.
Also you asked about buying a pp for Montana for 2021 the preference points are only good for 1 year and you have to apply the year you buy or you lose it.

 

[Gerald Martin]

It sounds like a good strategy but seems like you might be spreading yourself a little thin by changing spots every year or two. I would rather learn an “average” OTC spot well by hunting it every year while building points and confidence to hunt a “better” tag every 5 years or so. This is assuming you are planning only one hunt per year.

 

[teej89]

It sounds like a good strategy but seems like you might be spreading yourself a little thin by changing spots every year or two. I would rather learn an “average” OTC spot well by hunting it every year while building points and confidence to hunt a “better” tag every 5 years or so. This is assuming you are planning only one hunt per year.

My initial thought as well, no matter how much you google earth you get there and are like wow, this is different haha but going to the same spot again the next year you go in way more confident.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

That is awesome you have a plan in place I have 1 thing.

In Montana you can only use a preference point for the general big game combo. The bonus point I am assuming you bought is just good for limited entry units in Montana.
Also you asked about buying a pp for Montana for 2021 the preference points are only good for 1 year and you have to apply the year you buy or you lose it.

Thank you! I made a mistake and should have referred to a PP in Montana towards the general tag.

 

[WIbiggame]

Thank you! I made a mistake and should have referred to a PP in Montana towards the general tag.

Ok, just know that if you are going to buy a pp this year you need to apply for a license in 2020 or you lose your pp. So if 2021 is your plan for MT dont buy a pp until July 2020 and than when you apply in 2021 for 2pp.

 

[LCH]

That is awesome you have a plan in place I have 1 thing.

In Montana you can only use a preference point for the general big game combo. The bonus point I am assuming you bought is just good for limited entry units in Montana.
Also you asked about buying a pp for Montana for 2021 the preference points are only good for 1 year and you have to apply the year you buy or you lose it.

You actually have 2 years to burn your preference points in MT. Case in point, I bought a pp fall 2017 and used that point spring 2019.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

It sounds like a good strategy but seems like you might be spreading yourself a little thin by changing spots every year or two. I would rather learn an “average” OTC spot well by hunting it every year while building points and confidence to hunt a “better” tag every 5 years or so. This is assuming you are planning only one hunt per year.

My initial thought as well, no matter how much you google earth you get there and are like wow, this is different haha but going to the same spot again the next year you go in way more confident.

Thank you to you both. That is definitely a goal and will hopefully come as a result of exploring the various states. At this point we only have one hunt under our belt in a different OTC unit in Idaho. Hopefully we'll experience a few areas over the next several and be able to settle into a couple specific areas once we gather more information on each state. If we were to choose a place now it'd be basically throwing a dart the wall and hoping we didn't handicap ourselves from the beginning by choosing a poor area.

That, and we're still learning the art of elk hunting general and have a lot to learn.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I would forget any type of strategy for special permits in MT unless you want to hunt general areas and apply for permits on the side. IMO, the quality most permit areas in contrast to general and the low probability of drawing as a N.R. doesn’t justify the expense. Montana does have some quality elk, but the learning curve for access to them is steep or expensive. I live here, apply for permit areas every year, have drawn once in 16 years and killed a much better bull than the unit usually produces. It was a combination of dumb luck/right place at the right time and all I have learned from hunting general areas. It was the hunt that everyone dreams of when they drop their coins in the application process but most of the lucky lotto winners who draw the tag won’t experience. I saw elk twice on the week long hunt. We happened to kill bulls both times we saw them.

 

[utah400elk]

For what it’s worth...I would not start Colorado. I would look to Utah and or Nevada over CO. I have 20 pp for colorado and I am still a couple (several) years from a good tag. At this point you will never catch the good units. You can go OTC whenever you want without the added fees. The only reason to get CO points would be a general muzzleloader tag.

JMO

Good luck.

 

[WIbiggame]

You actually have 2 years to burn your preference points in MT. Case in point, I bought a pp fall 2017 and used that point spring 2019.

You are correct I misread that

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

I would forget any type of strategy for special permits in MT unless you want to hunt general areas and apply for permits on the side. IMO, the quality most permit areas in contrast to general and the low probability of drawing as a N.R. doesn’t justify the expense. Montana does have some quality elk, but the learning curve for access to them is steep or expensive. I live here, apply for permit areas every year, have drawn once in 16 years and killed a much better bull than the unit usually produces. It was a combination of dumb luck/right place at the right time and all I have learned from hunting general areas. It was the hunt that everyone dreams of when they drop their coins in the application process but most of the lucky lotto winners who draw the tag won’t experience. I saw elk twice on the week long hunt. We happened to kill bulls both times we saw them.

Sorry for being unclear. We're only planning to try and draw a general tag in both Montana and Wyoming. I don't want to deal with special draws in either of those right now.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

For what it’s worth...I would not start Colorado. I would look to Utah and or Nevada over CO. I have 20 pp for colorado and I am still a couple (several) years from a good tag. At this point you will never catch the good units. You can go OTC whenever you want without the added fees. The only reason to get CO points would be a general muzzleloader tag.

JMO

Good luck.

Interesting. So a 5 point draw unit is really no better in terms of pressure or quantity of elk than an OTC unit in CO? I'd love to hunt the state at some point but maybe we just pull the trigger and go one year rather than building more points.

 

[rmyoung1]

For what it’s worth...I would not start Colorado. I would look to Utah and or Nevada over CO. I have 20 pp for colorado and I am still a couple (several) years from a good tag. At this point you will never catch the good units. You can go OTC whenever you want without the added fees. The only reason to get CO points would be a general muzzleloader tag.

JMO

Good luck.

I disagree with the post above. Everyone’s goals and bank account are different, of course, but jumping in now, as a NR, in the draws in NV and UT will be a very loooooong process, most likely. It doesn’t sound like you’re too caught up on “glory units”. If that’s the case, I’d save your cash. Not much opportunity in either state for the NR compared to other states. Which leads me to CO....

I also disagree with utah400 and I’d encourage you to apply. There are a bunch of CO first rifle tags that offer neat hunts in beautiful areas with good success rates and much less hunting pressure than the OTC seasons. You probably won’t kill that jaw-dropper bull, but you’ll have a great hunt and, again, it doesn’t sound like you’re too caught up in antler score but instead want to expose yourself to some fun elk hunting in different locales. If I’m reading you correctly, you should absolutely add CO to your list.

 

[Desk Pop]

I disagree with above statement as UT and NV being better states than CO for a guy with a plan for only 5 years. I have 10 UT points and 11 NV points....they won't get you much. In CO, there are multiple units that take only a couple of points to draw. Worth trying there. The elk may not get huge, but you will have less pressure to deal with than OTC. If you had a "20 or 30 year elk plan," yes...UT and NV are good options. Put in for tags in both and in 20-30 years you may luck into one and get a big bull. Putting in for NV and UT for only five years is basically the same as just donating directly to their F&G depts.

I also echo above person who said hunt otc every year in same area. Learning an area is more valuable than bouncing around.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

I disagree with the post above. Everyone’s goals and bank account are different, of course, but jumping in now, as a NR, in the draws in NV and UT will be a very loooooong process, most likely. It doesn’t sound like you’re too caught up on “glory units”. If that’s the case, I’d save your cash. Not much opportunity in either state for the NR compared to other states. Which leads me to CO....

I also disagree with utah400 and I’d encourage you to apply. There are a bunch of CO first rifle tags that offer neat hunts in beautiful areas with good success rates and much less hunting pressure than the OTC seasons. You probably won’t kill that jaw-dropper bull, but you’ll have a great hunt and, again, it doesn’t sound like you’re too caught up in antler score but instead want to expose yourself to some fun elk hunting in different locales. If I’m reading you correctly, you should absolutely add CO to your list.

I disagree with above statement as UT and NV being better states than CO for a guy with a plan for only 5 years. I have 10 UT points and 11 NV points....they won't get you much. In CO, there are multiple units that take only a couple of points to draw. Worth trying there. The elk may not get huge, but you will have less pressure to deal with than OTC. If you had a "20 or 30 year elk plan," yes...UT and NV are good options. Put in for tags in both and in 20-30 years you may luck into one and get a big bull. Putting in for NV and UT for only five years is basically the same as just donating directly to their F&G depts.

I also echo above person who said hunt otc every year in same area. Learning an area is more valuable than bouncing around.

Thank you both! You are absolutely correct that neither of us are caught up on antler score or glory units. Basically we just want to hunk elk every year and hopefully find some success along the way. I don't really care if the (hopeful, eventual) 150+ lbs of meat in my freezer are from a bull or a cow. After we've found some success we might start looking further out and at bigger bulls, but that's not even a consideration right now. And truthfully, considering dad's age, I'm much more interested in saving for an Alaska moose trip for both of us than pulling a "prime" elk tag in 20 years.

 

[LopeHunter]

While building elk points, I would suggest building deer and pronghorn in WY. Some of those hunts will line up with WY elk hunts if you coordinate your application choices a bit. I would suggest MT pronghorn points as well since can coordinate that with an elk hunt as well.

I would avoid UT and NV unless are okay not having drawn a single elk tag 20 years from now. AZ would be the same sort of very long term roll of the dice unless are an archery hunter then could hunt a decent unit each decade as NR. Build some javelina points in AZ if plan to elk hunt. Also, build deer points in AZ if building elk points since in a decade or so can hunt Coues whitetail in late December during the pre-rut/early rut.

OR and WA are no fly zones for drawing a tag except you can get a Roosevelt elk tag in OR either OTC or with a few years of building points. Combine that with a Blacktail hunt in OR OTC or with a few years of points.

I agree with the approach that there is a learning curve so hunting the same patch of the West repeatedly (if there are bull elk to be found on public) has a lot of advantages including not just success during the hunt but knowing where to get supplies, if cell phone works, where to pitch camp or what motel is better, etc.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

While building elk points, I would suggest building deer and pronghorn in WY. Some of those hunts will line up with WY elk hunts if you coordinate your application choices a bit. I would suggest MT pronghorn points as well since can coordinate that with an elk hunt as well.

I would avoid UT and NV unless are okay not having drawn a single elk tag 20 years from now. AZ would be the same sort of very long term roll of the dice unless are an archery hunter then could hunt a decent unit each decade as NR. Build some javelina points in AZ if plan to elk hunt. Also, build deer points in AZ if building elk points since in a decade or so can hunt Coues whitetail in late December during the pre-rut/early rut.

OR and WA are no fly zones for drawing a tag except you can get a Roosevelt elk tag in OR either OTC or with a few years of building points. Combine that with a Blacktail hunt in OR OTC or with a few years of points.

I agree with the approach that there is a learning curve so hunting the same patch of the West repeatedly (if there are bull elk to be found on public) has a lot of advantages including not just success during the hunt but knowing where to get supplies, if cell phone works, where to pitch camp or what motel is better, etc.

Thank you. I didn't want to bog everyone down with a deer plan as well but my real goal would be to hunt deer alongside elk in the same hunt every year. I know that might be tough to organize but it would be ideal. Also, I've never hunted antelope but I fully intend on buying an antelope point along with an elk and deer point in each state that offers it. I've considered that maybe we'll take a year off of either deer or elk (especially if we don't draw) to chase antelope. A lot of guys on here make it look like a ton of fun with high success rates.

One of the hardest things we've had to do is narrow down our goals from so much opportunity. We live way down in South Florida which means that we're looking at a lot of driving no matter where we go (flying just seems to get expensive). It takes us 6 hours just to get out of Florida if we head straight north. More like 10-12 hours if we go around the panhandle. The reality is that we're likely only to take one trip out west per year with +/- 5-7 days of hunting and 2 - 4 days of driving. Our Idaho trip this year is going to include 72 hours of driving just to get there and back.

 

[8andcounting]

That is awesome you have a plan in place I have 1 thing.

In Montana you can only use a preference point for the general big game combo. The bonus point I am assuming you bought is just good for limited entry units in Montana.
Also you asked about buying a pp for Montana for 2021 the preference points are only good for 1 year and you have to apply the year you buy or you lose it.

No . Wrong . You don’t have to apply the year you buy it but you do the next year . And pp are good for all 3 Nr combo tags not just the bg

 

[teej89]

Sorry for being unclear. We're only planning to try and draw a general tag in both Montana and Wyoming. I don't want to deal with special draws in either of those right now.

I'd ALWAYS deal with applying for permits... just to accrue points we always apply for permits in MT but bank on hunting the general units. Last year we drew a breaks rifle hunt with <1% chance of drawing, my buddy had zero points(one when buying during the application) and it was his first elk hunt so our total point tally got brought down to 1pt.