Colorado Elk Load For Traditions Vortek

[PaJay 1962]

I measured out the Triple Seven by volume this time. Shot the 350 grain Hornady FPB and found out that my gun just doesn't like them at all. Best group I could do starting at 90 grains and working up to 120 grains was 5" - not good at 25 yards. One thing I noticed was these bullets were not making a clean hole, almost appeared to be tumbling a little.

Tried some 300 grain Platinum Powerbelts and got < 2" group at 100 grains at 25 yards, so I'm at least off to a start. Shot enough today, will try some different loads later in the week to see what I can do.

As for Buckhorn Powder - is it really corrosive? The guy in Cabelas said to use solvents to clean it out - just curious.

Jay

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

the powder itself is not, but the soot inside attracts the moisture in the air and THAT is what is corrosive and will cause pitting. Use your typical bore solvent that you use on your smokeless firearms.

One thing I learned when shooting my Vortek, Pull it into your shoulder TIGHT. If I held it loose, it would give me fits. Its a very light rifle and under recoil, its moving before that bullet gets completely out of the bore.

Also, remove the recoil pad and check the bolt that holds the stock onto the frame. Mine was loose right from the factory and I found that to be an issue with inconsistent accuracy.

Also, BH209 gets you barrel hot pretty fast because you can shoot and reload quickly. Give it 5 or so minutes between each shot. If its sunny, find some shade to put it in.

 

[PaJay 1962]

Great information since you also have one. I'll have to check that bolt to be sure. I've had it for probably 4 years, always shot well with the sabots and pellets, but I had a Ruger M7 that was notorius for one bolt loosening and throwing off the accuracy. Since I know you're using the Thor bullets, may have to order some also. What bullet grain you using and width? I think you said 100 grains of Buckhorn with it.

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I use the .500" and size them up myself using a socket thats .449-.450" diameter. Then I use a small hammer and lightly tap the socket and measure. My last two traditions used the .502 thor. Get the sizing sample its free. Just email Terry your name/address and he'll get one out. I use 250gr mainly.

Curious but how have you been cleaning your breech plug over the past 4 years?

 

[PaJay 1962]

Thanks for the info - I'll email terry.

I'll put the breach plug into a small container with T17 and shake it for a minute. Then take a small pipe cleaner and go down inside the larger channel twisting as well as up and down multiple times. I'll then take a torch cleaner for the small hole and run that up/down through there. That's one area I'm nervous about to be honest with you. I haven't had misfires YET, but would hate to have that happen at the moment of truth. Any suggestions?

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Yes, I highly suggest you use the drill bit method to clean your breech plug free of fouling. The inconsistency you are having reminds me of a how to video i put together with a CVA Accura and a clogged up breech plug.

Your traditions plug will use an 1/8" drill bit and it will be tight due to the fouling.
http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/breech-plug-cleaning/

Watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Z3bJ849pc

 

[PaJay 1962]

After reading that article and watching the video, all I can say is wow! I never would have thought that the fouled breach plug would result in accuracy as bad as that first demo. Now you bring out more questions from me!

Since my breach plug cleaning may have been inadequate based on your page and video, what are your suggestions for me going forward? Would you soak it for a while and then proceed with the drill bit and torch pick?

I think I'll do the same - clean it as you specify, then compare it to the last group I shot yesterday to see what happens.

Great information again!

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

sure, I'd soak it in a good cleaner, something more along the lines of what center fires use, give it a few hours and then use the drill bit and clean the carbon out of the flash channel.

 

[PaJay 1962]

Well FM, I did what you said, in fact followed it to a T. Soaked the breach plug for 30 minutes (couldn't wait any longer), took a 1/8" bit and cleared out a fair amount of carbon from the hole, then took the torch cleaner and cleaned out the smaller hole - big difference between before and after when looking inside the breach plug. Since I'm a person who needs visual confirmation, I went out to the yard to do some shooting. Took one fowling shot, then took 3 shots using 90 grains of Triple 7 with the 300 grain Powerbelt Platinums at 50 yards using open sights. All I can say is WOW - what a difference! The 3 shots all fit within a 1" square and were all touching - incredible! You definitely know your stuff. I never would have considered the breach plug to affect accuracy as I figured if the powder gets ignited, it's ignited and that's it. WRONG!

I ordered the Thor bullet sampler today and hopefully will have them the end of the week. Definitely want to try them out, and shoot the Platinums at 100 yards as well at the range.

Definitely appreciate your help with this issue, I learned a lot. If we're ever in the same state at the same time, I'll owe you dinner!

Now I have to figure out how to post the picture from the album!

Jay

 

[PaJay 1962]

The picture!

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

man you have no clue how happy that makes me! I am so glad that all worked out for you. I'd say you are ready to go!

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Heres another tune up for that Vortek. You ever notice any black soot build up on the face of the action or possibly even dents from the primers hitting the frame around the firing pin?

This is what you need! It will completely seal that primer blow by and prevent the primer from launching into the frame making a mess and prevent it from being further damaged.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#9262k611/=y8q7xx

Make sure the primer pocket is clean! Once clean, seat one of the o rings into the primer pocket. You can use a primer and just push it down onto of the o ring it seat it. That o ring will easily last 40+ shots before needing to be replaced. This seals the blow by and saves your frame/firing pin from being damaged by the primer. These guns run very loose " Head space" and the primer basically turns into a projectile and launches in the frame, damaging it and making a mess because the primer breaks seal from the primer pocket seat.

 

[PaJay 1962]

Yep, I know exactly what you're talking about. The face of the breach plug is always covered in a black soot when finished, as is the face of the gun near the firing pin. I'll order some of those o-rings for sure. How did you come up with that fix?

Thanks
Jay

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

years ago on another forum i had a breech plug custom made and it was dirty as sin. I drilled the pocket deeper and put in a thick o ring. Another member came along and found the metric size that was perfect to just drop in and go. Its a real handy little tune up item. You'll love how clean the action is once you drop one in and give it a try.

 

[PaJay 1962]

I got the Thor bullet sample pack in the mail today and tried different ones in my Traditions Vortek to see what size fits best. The barrel was perfectly clean - had not been fired. The .501 made contact with the barrel about as much as the 300 grain Powerbelt - wasn't loose, wasn't overly tight, but definitely didn't feel like it would slide up the barrel. The .502 took a bit of effort to get down the barrel, no deep grooves on the sides, and since I don't have any gauge to determine how much force was needed, just have to guess it took 20 lbs to push it down. When I went to push it out, I actually had to hold the barrel, put the ramrod in from the breach plug end, and hit the ramrod hard on the ground to get the bullet back out. There was no way it was getting just pushed out by me pushing on the ramrod. I'm thinking that it would be a real chore to push a .502 down a fouled barrel.

So, I have two questions:

1) My gut tells me the .502 is too tight as on a clean barrel I had a difficult time trying to push it back out. Agree, disagree, and why?

2) What grain of these bullets have people used to take elk - the 250 grain or the 300 grain? I'm thinking 300 grain due to the size of an elk, and I'm shooting open sights in Colorado, so I'm not lobbing any long shots.

3) Anyone with experience shooting Thor bullets out of a Traditions Vortek? If so, what bullet and powder combination worked?

Thanks
Jay

 

[PaJay 1962]

Shoot - just realized I screwed up in my message. The bullet that took a heck of a lot of effort to remove was a saboted bullet, NOT the .502. It was tight going down the clean barrel, but I was still able to push it out from the breach end.