Cartridge Bullet Change of Heart

[std7mag]

This I don't believe. Pics? mtmuley

What, of swiss deer chest? Lol

150gr Corelokts from 30-06 distance 25-70 yards.

300 Savage 5 rounds, distance 10-15 yards. Deer found after already being gut shot. 6th round to the head finally put her down for the count.

 

[mtmuley]

What, of swiss deer chest? Lol

150gr Corelokts from 30-06 distance 25-70 yards.

300 Savage 5 rounds, distance 10-15 yards. Deer found after already being gut shot. 6th round to the head finally put her down for the count.

Sounds like bad shot placement. I've killed a lot of elk, deer and antelope with a Core Lokt out of an .06. Pardon my skepticism. mtmuley

 

[devon deer]

He doesn't handload.

Maybe he should, it isn't that expensive to start, and the choice then is endless, well not for me, Barnes TTSX is my choice these days out of my .243
Cheers
Richard

 

[buffybr]

I never understood this current fanaticism for bang-flop over avoiding meat damage. Back when I was young anyone who hung something in a butcher shop that looked like it was hit with an RPG was subject to local humiliation. I guess bang-flop becomes more important when ranges run out to 500+ yards. It might be tomorrow before the shooter can get to the downed animal.

In over half a century of eating more than a hundred deer, elk, and moose that I've shot with 30-06 cup-and-core lead bullets I have yet to encounter a piece of lead in the meat. Absolutely no concern if I did. The potential lead poisoning from consuming the odd tiny shrapnel would not exceed natural everyday environmental contamination. Perhaps it might be more concerning if I was an infant instead of 200 lb adult.

Interesting that I just concluded debating this subject with my African PH. Shots at plains game can involve some distance. For over fifty years I shot North American big game with 180 gr cup-and-core lead bullets and only lost one animal (lightly hit that someone else subsequently killed). Only one wounded animal required any amount of tracking, also lightly wounded. But that one was out of range and shooting at it was a youthful mistake. Anyway, due to component shortages for upcoming trip to Africa I am stuck working up a load with 30-06 165 gr Hornady cup-and-core. I have about a dozen 165 gr Partitions left that I loaded for my first trip and seven 168 gr Barnes TSX bullets from second trip. No hope of getting any more Partition bullets and, though more Barnes bullets can be had, I was concerned because they didn't group well for me last time (I used up most of the box at the range). But that may have been due to operator error (failed to seat the bullets deep enough for a jump to lands) and/or equipment failure. The Partitions performed fabulously on the first trip but I was shocked at the meat damage to the only animal I saw skinned (mind you that gemsbuck was shot at extremely close range). Should I stick with Hornady, try to make the remaining Partitions last, or drive four hours across the border to pick up more Barnes bullets? My PH said don't worry about meat damage. They want clients to put the animal down, hence instructions to shoot even little impala and blesbuck square in the shoulder. My preference has always been to hit animals behind the shoulder to avoid wasting meat. He said the Hornady bullets will work but be careful with Barbary sheep. Interesting that exit wound is NOT desirable for them. If the sheep are spooked their inclination is to pack together tightly. For his last sheep he declined to use his 270 WSM and instead borrowed the landowner's 22-250 to pick off the ram from the flock with reduced risk of bullet exiting. If the Partitions will group with the Hornady bullets, I may take what's left of them along just for sheep. According to my PH the Barnes bullets aren't desirable for sheep because of their tendency for pass through.

Moral of the story is bullet choice is about balancing species, type of hunting, range, and meat damage. I was raised to put meat damage at the top of the list. Bang-flop was never even a consideration in those days. Any animal shot in the boiler room with 165 or 180 gr won't go far before falling over. I have never seen one go further than fifty yards. The OP is hunting small deer and consequently should be concerned about wasting any of it unnecessarily. If he is hunting over bait, which is very common in Texas, he has no business shooting RPG exploding bullets. Long distance shouldn't be a factor. Shoot that zipper with a heavier more solid bullet at slower velocity. Get a good thump without the exploding meat. If the OP is beanfield shooting long distance, then perhaps copper is better. He wants range and more potential for pass through with better terminal velocity. Neither is my typical hunting style. I prefer medium to short range and often as not hunt in snow where tracking is easy. I shoot a medium to heavy 30-06 bullet at medium to high velocity. I rarely have to shoot an animal twice and meat damage is typically quite minimal. But I hunt a lot and I'm a fairly good shot. I have enough experience to know how to be fussy with shot placement.

I also started out as a meat hunter. For the last 50+ years my main sourse of meat was from the deer, elk, etc that I shot, so learned to prefer the "just behind the shoulder shot." I shot my second best 6x6 bull elk in the A-B Wilderness just north of Yellowstone NP. I was actually in there hunting a Bighorn ram as that area was one of Montana's Unlimited ram units. It was my first Unlimited ram hunt, I had never been in that unit before, and I had backpacked in there by myself.

It was the third morning of a 3 day hunt and I hadn't seen any sheep. Shortly after I left my tent I heard an elk bugeling and coming toward me. I was hunting with my .257 Ackley with 117 grain Sierra GameKing bullets. Elk season was also open in the Wilderness portion of that unit then, so I just sat down and waited for that bull comming to me. I first saw his dark, ivory tipped antlers and I knew then that my sheep hunt was over.

It was fairly open lodgepole timber and when he stopped broadside to bugle about 75 yards in front of me, I put one of those 117 grain Sierras just behind his front shoulder. He instantly dropped dead. When I dressed him I found that my bullet had hit a rib going in, pretty well shredded his lungs, and didn't go through the ribcage on the other side.

It wasn't until my trips to Africa when my PHs told me to shoot on the shoulder that I started doing that. When I shot my Leopard in Mozambique with a 168 grain Barnes TSX bullet from my .300 Weatherby, I was more concerned with breaking his shoulder than I was in saving some meat. He died 18 paces from where he was when I shot him.

When I shot my Aoudad in Texas, my guide kept telling my that they were hard to kill so to shoot him in the hams to break his legs. I was again useing my .300 Wby and my 168 grain TSX bullet through his shoulders only allowed him to run about 5 paces.

I started using Barnes bullets in 2010 and since then I have used them in alll of my hunts with my .375 RUM and my .300 Wby except one. Those hunts totaled at least 30 animals, and I was only able to recover 8 of the Barnes bullets. They were all the classic Barnes mushrooms. I think most of the others went completely through the animals. Of all of those animals, only two required a long tracking job, and I blame poor hits rather than bullet failure on them.

The two bull elk that I shot with Barnes bullets fell at the bullet impact and never got up. I shot the first bull at a little over 100 yards. He was standing broadside and I but the 168 gain TSX bullet just behind his shoulder. It came out just behind his other shoulder and he dropped instantly. I was very suprised at how little meat loss there was, especially compared to the meat loss from all of the elk that I had killed previously with 180 grain Partitions.

 

[Red-Team 98]

Fist let me say "forgive me Lord for I have sinned", I AM NOT A RELOADER. That said I do, and have enjoyed shooting for years. The problem was money, or a lack there of. I have been able to hunt though since the eighties and loved shooting the Hornady line of cartridges since they came out in the mid eighties. In my onion they brought Handloading accuracy to the cartridge world. When the SST came out I switched over to them and out of my Remington BDL's .243 (95gr) and 25-06 (117gr) they dove nails. A few years ago not having anything in Stainless or in Composite (plastic) I was looking at buying a new rifle and ended up with the "Billy Wiz Bang" T3X in the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I started buying several boxes to fined out what the rifle preferred and settled in the 143gr ELDX, It shoots as good as the SST's and has killed everything I ever shot with it (50-150yds). A couple years ago though I shot a doe high in the neck at 90 yards., the problem is/was no exit.
I fined out about the thin jackets on the eldx end up finding the Winchester Expedition Long Range142gr Accubond bullet which is "bonded" unlike the ELDX. These cartridge's have the exact same ballistics out to five hundred yards and I'm shooting any game that far off.
I live in central Texas so our deer are not as big as some others, and while I have not had to track a deer since the eighties leaning more towards a bonded bullet that can give a exit at closer ranges. My question is am I on the right track moving to the Accubond long range?

ELDX the accuracy was great but the on game performance was explosive in 300 win Mag and 338 Win Mag and meat damage excessive.
I quickly went back to Accubonds and Swift.
I had better results on game with Hornady Interlock Flat Base Orginal bullets.

 

[std7mag]

It must be Easter.
When we are resurrecting old threads.

Surely the OP has decided on a bullet within the last 9 months!

 

[elevatorman]

I dont trust accubond long ranges to do what is claimed and actually hold together. My basis Is the AB long range is made from a softer alloy and thinner jacket than the regular accubond. And ive shot the regular accubond and seen that bullet "fail". By fail I mean not hold together like claimed and blow up like an ELD-X or cheapo lead cup and core vullet. And you said you plan on shots less than 500 yards, so relatively high velocity. I think the ABLR would be a great bullet and has good B.C. but I wouldn't plan on it holding together. I would expect ELDX like behavior from it.

That said I shoot ELDX from my rifle and subscribe to dumping every last bit of energy from that bullet into the deer or coyote and not worrying about a pass through. I would think differently if I was hunting bear or elk.

 

[88man]

40 plus years at this reloading, shooting - Killing - butchering game with a pretty tight group of guys and what one guy calls terminal performance on these boards another calls failure with the same results sorta makes no sense to me. I have seen em killed and I cut em up after with the following bullets. corelocks, BT, B silver T, accubonds, PARTITIONS, BARNES, eldx, eldm, GMX, sierra, interlocks, sst, MK, GK, swift siroccos, aframes, FMJ, OOO, OO, O, round balls, saboted JHP, Lead Pumpkin balls. Hundreds of animals.

Nothing and I mean nothing kills as fast as a BERGER on thin skinned game. Highest percentage of dead right there shots. BANG FLOP

 

[Don Fischer]

I have used cup and core bullet's all my life and for the most part have never been let down. Seem's most people spend so much time chasing the perfect bullet they never learn to place the bullet they use nor how to determine if it even works well. One bad shot and it's the bullet's fault! One lucky shot and the bullet has magic! One thing I think is a definate draw back except in mono bullet's is the plastic tip. The bullet hits something and the tip goes right back into the bullet. On mono it insures the hp will open. Only place I use plastic tip's is with varmint bullet's, makes them explode pretty much! In magnum cartridges, light bullets pushed to hard fall apart penetrating. But people seem to worship speed weather it's good or not! And seem's most have bought into the need for 400yds plus shooting anymore. Take a look at the accubond long range. Admittely not to good for closer more normal range but better at long range. Pretty much the only bullets that work right at fast velocity and slow velocity are full metal jacket bullet's! But then they don't expand at either velocity!

 

[17remhunter]

Fist let me say "forgive me Lord for I have sinned", I AM NOT A RELOADER. That said I do, and have enjoyed shooting for years. The problem was money, or a lack there of. I have been able to hunt though since the eighties and loved shooting the Hornady line of cartridges since they came out in the mid eighties. In my onion they brought Handloading accuracy to the cartridge world. When the SST came out I switched over to them and out of my Remington BDL's .243 (95gr) and 25-06 (117gr) they dove nails. A few years ago not having anything in Stainless or in Composite (plastic) I was looking at buying a new rifle and ended up with the "Billy Wiz Bang" T3X in the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I started buying several boxes to fined out what the rifle preferred and settled in the 143gr ELDX, It shoots as good as the SST's and has killed everything I ever shot with it (50-150yds). A couple years ago though I shot a doe high in the neck at 90 yards., the problem is/was no exit.
I fined out about the thin jackets on the eldx end up finding the Winchester Expedition Long Range142gr Accubond bullet which is "bonded" unlike the ELDX. These cartridge's have the exact same ballistics out to five hundred yards and I'm shooting any game that far off.
I live in central Texas so our deer are not as big as some others, and while I have not had to track a deer since the eighties leaning more towards a bonded bullet that can give a exit at closer ranges. My question is am I on the right track moving to the Accubond long range?

Stop going to Starbucks and buy your reloading equipment

 

[17remhunter]

Fist let me say "forgive me Lord for I have sinned", I AM NOT A RELOADER. That said I do, and have enjoyed shooting for years. The problem was money, or a lack there of. I have been able to hunt though since the eighties and loved shooting the Hornady line of cartridges since they came out in the mid eighties. In my onion they brought Handloading accuracy to the cartridge world. When the SST came out I switched over to them and out of my Remington BDL's .243 (95gr) and 25-06 (117gr) they dove nails. A few years ago not having anything in Stainless or in Composite (plastic) I was looking at buying a new rifle and ended up with the "Billy Wiz Bang" T3X in the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I started buying several boxes to fined out what the rifle preferred and settled in the 143gr ELDX, It shoots as good as the SST's and has killed everything I ever shot with it (50-150yds). A couple years ago though I shot a doe high in the neck at 90 yards., the problem is/was no exit.
I fined out about the thin jackets on the eldx end up finding the Winchester Expedition Long Range142gr Accubond bullet which is "bonded" unlike the ELDX. These cartridge's have the exact same ballistics out to five hundred yards and I'm shooting any game that far off.
I live in central Texas so our deer are not as big as some others, and while I have not had to track a deer since the eighties leaning more towards a bonded bullet that can give a exit at closer ranges. My question is am I on the right track moving to the Accubond long range?

6mm. Pop for the equipment and start reloading. Train yourself to but together super accurate ammo. The skys the limit. You will be sooooooo much better off. I load for all my rifles however a lot of custom bullet makers dont have loaded ammunition. I shoot 30 gr Blackhole bullets out of my 17 Remington if I didn’t reload id be out. If you shoot a lot start reloading or you can continue to complain

 

[17remhunter]

I have used cup and core bullet's all my life and for the most part have never been let down. Seem's most people spend so much time chasing the perfect bullet they never learn to place the bullet they use nor how to determine if it even works well. One bad shot and it's the bullet's fault! One lucky shot and the bullet has magic! One thing I think is a definate draw back except in mono bullet's is the plastic tip. The bullet hits something and the tip goes right back into the bullet. On mono it insures the hp will open. Only place I use plastic tip's is with varmint bullet's, makes them explode pretty much! In magnum cartridges, light bullets pushed to hard fall apart penetrating. But people seem to worship speed weather it's good or not! And seem's most have bought into the need for 400yds plus shooting anymore. Take a look at the accubond long range. Admittely not to good for closer more normal range but better at long range. Pretty much the only bullets that work right at fast velocity and slow velocity are full metal jacket bullet's! But then they don't expand at either velocity!

Your right lots of guys into ultra long range hunting. Its nuts. Accuracy and bullet placement need i say more