I started to work up a load for my 300 win mag using 212 grain Hornady ELD-X bullets with H1000 powder. I started around 74 grains and worked my way up to 77 I believe. I’m at work and I don’t have my note book in front of me. I was at the range shooting at 150 yards and all my bullets did not group. They more or less started left and slowly went right looking like a bad smiley face. I made up 5 shots in each batch and they were all in about a 2” square but stayed in line with each other. They seemed to be slowly tightening up and maybe I just need alittle more powder to get them to come together. Is this a common problem or am I doing something wrong on my end?
Bullet not grouping
- Thread starter Dewey
- Start date
OhHeyThereBen
Active member
Hey Dewey. I'm pretty new to this reloading thing so take what I say with a grain of salt. Did you let your barrel cool a bit between shots? It seems that shot stringing can often be related to that. Another suggestion is to make sure that you're getting a good trigger pull. I know that my shots start stringing like that when I get to my later groups on my '06 because I start getting sore and flinching.
One of the many frustrations with reloading is trying to diagnose these types of things. I really love it, but there can be so many possible problems that it could drive a guy nuts!
One of the many frustrations with reloading is trying to diagnose these types of things. I really love it, but there can be so many possible problems that it could drive a guy nuts!
cahunter805
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Do you have a picture of your target and groups? Sounds like your saying you had horizontal stringing. That could be a number of factors. Give us some more details. New brass? What distance from lands? Were you shooting from bipod/bags? Lead sled?
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
When diagnosing groups I would normally correlate Left-right stringing with inconsistent trigger pul/rifle torque. If you aren't seeing a lot of vertical dispersal, the load MIGHT not be the issue.
I am assume you have a fast enough twist to get that heavy slug spinning.
I am assume you have a fast enough twist to get that heavy slug spinning.
antelopedundee
Well-known member
If your barrel is free floating and recoil/flinch isn't an issue I'd work up in half grain increments [3 shot groups] and see if it changes. You can check for pressure/contact points between the stock and barrel by trying to slide a dollar bill under the barrel and down to the action. Frankly, even 2 inch groups would be more than adequate for most game at 150 yards.
I was shooting out of a lead sled. With new brass and about .15” off the lands. The rifle is an x bolt. I have the target at my dads house right now because I had to go to work after shooting and I left most of the stuff with him when I left. I was giving the barrel alittle time to cool but probably not enough. Maybe 15 minutes in between each set of 5 The barrel was warm for sure but it wasn’t burning hot to the touch. I could definitely blame this on shooter error because I was constantly inconsistent. I was shootingnoff a cheaper Herters shooting table that Wasn’t exactly the most sturdy thing to shoot off. This might be one of them things to start from scratch again and build up in loads of 3 and eliminate the variables more than assuming it’s not operator error? I will admit I did fire a hand full of shots to get on paper then my test bullets but I really didn’t think it would completely blow out a group like I did.
I guess being used to shooting other rifles I never really thought about the fact it am burning almost twice the amount of powder in this gun than I am in my .270 and not letting it cool down enough. Besides letting it cool down on its own do you guys do anything to speed it up? Or is that just the best way to do it ... all natural
belly-deep
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Sounds to me like the bullet is not stabilized.
deer_shooter
Well-known member
How does the rifle group with 165 or 180 grain bullets?
I haven’t had any chance to try any other weights. I was kinda in disbelief that I wasn’t shooting a group of any sort. The factory ammo shot 1” groups easy at 100 yards with 180 grain fusion. Similar with 180 grain Hornady superformance ammo. When it went to crap I was just kind of flustered and at a loss for what had happened I didn’t have any weight in the lead sled. The lead sled is new for me to use so I thought maybe that was part of the issue but I kinda thought I would get a group even if it was alittle off from where I was aimin because I didn’t have it shouldered where I normally shoot
LopeHunter
Well-known member
There are various types of mounts so how tighten to gun and the scope within the mount can vary. I would make sure the mounts are tight to the gun. I would then slightly loosen the scope and then retighten. Make sure the cross hairs are level. The air gaps should be the same on each half of the mount. Small details, likely not the issue here, but since are having issues I would take the extra few minutes to make sure the mounts and scope are locked down tight. A small chance something inside the scope has worked loose and that is not something you can fix.
I had a rifle that would walk shots with a warm barrel a few inches left to right at 200 yards. I thought was the barrel. I changed out the scope for another reason and the issue went away. I shoot factory ammunition but before and during the scope swap was the same brand and weight. I do think the scope or the mounts were the issue. I did not have this issue with two other rifles I shoot so was not leaning towards me being the issue. Maybe was.
The lead sled is nice though, for me, makes it difficult to get the cheek and eye in a natural position. Perhaps if you have to alter the natural alignment as you prepare to shoot from the sled then that is an issue to consider. I also make sure the barrel is not resting on the lead sled support and the rifle is not tilted to side as shoot.
I had a rifle that would walk shots with a warm barrel a few inches left to right at 200 yards. I thought was the barrel. I changed out the scope for another reason and the issue went away. I shoot factory ammunition but before and during the scope swap was the same brand and weight. I do think the scope or the mounts were the issue. I did not have this issue with two other rifles I shoot so was not leaning towards me being the issue. Maybe was.
The lead sled is nice though, for me, makes it difficult to get the cheek and eye in a natural position. Perhaps if you have to alter the natural alignment as you prepare to shoot from the sled then that is an issue to consider. I also make sure the barrel is not resting on the lead sled support and the rifle is not tilted to side as shoot.
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cahunter805
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The twist rate should be fine. I agree with above. Restart your test with 3 shot groups. 15 minutes between groups is fine.
A lead sled IMO is junk for shooting groups! Get yourself some bags and a bipod or front rest.
A lead sled IMO is junk for shooting groups! Get yourself some bags and a bipod or front rest.
cahunter805
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A lead sled is the answer to a potential cracked stock and no way to get a good cheek weld/solid shooting position on the stock.
I could tell immediately that it isn’t how a person would shoulder the gun. I just figured it was an acquired technique to use. Next time out I’m going to get a different chair to sit in so I can adjust it alittle more than the set up I’m shooting on now. I was with a buddy at a private range he belongs to on a wooden bench with adjustable seats and the gun shot 100 times better that the other day. I’m going to start over and reload some new ammo and try again from scratch instead of just working up hotter and hotter until I see signs of pressure. I’m pretty sure I have no business going that route. I’m looking at my notebook now and I loaded 76 grain. 77 grain 77.5 grain and stopped at 78 grain. All loaded with h1000 .015 off the lands. My books say that is the max and is a compressed load. My reloads were not compress In the cartridge either. I just cleaned up the rifle but I have to go to work but when I get up tomorrow I’m going to redo my scope and make sure she is on there straight and tight.
antelopedundee
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Sounds like maybe you just picked a poor load.
cahunter805
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Sounds like he just needs to retest his load off a proper bench and setup like he was shooting off when he shot 100 times better according to the OP.
Dewey- Retest your loads off something your comfortable on and can settle into the rifle solid. Also be sure it's a repeatable position. Even prone is a very good choice.
BAKPAKR
Well-known member
I used a lead sled to check my zero before hunting after a flight out West. Not only was my zero way off, my group had opened up. After wasting several rounds of ammo and making a couple of inches of scope adjustment, I finally shot without the lead sled and the problem was solved. I wound up adjusting the scope back to where I had started to get my zero.
After that, I have noticed people at the public range I frequent who appeared to be having the same problem. So, I will be staying away from lead sleds in the future.
After that, I have noticed people at the public range I frequent who appeared to be having the same problem. So, I will be staying away from lead sleds in the future.
El Jason
Well-known member
This. Ditch the lead sled and have someone load the gun for you so you can just concentrate on trigger press. Have them leave it randomly unloaded so you can see it f you are yanking the trigger.
std7mag
Well-known member
Sigh...
If you had done an actual ladder test, gotten your powder charge, then seating depth test you would have been done by now.
Don't do ladder tests with groups!
If you had done an actual ladder test, gotten your powder charge, then seating depth test you would have been done by now.
Don't do ladder tests with groups!
