Border closure and spring outfitting season

Gellar

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They are required to quarantine. Not sure how they're doing it as well.
I was going to say... Jim shockey is a dual citizen and he just returned to Canada. He’s been documenting his troubles with getting back. He had to quarantine at an approved hotel, pass a Covid test and than quarantine at his house for 14 days while passing additional tests. He’s also had govt officials visit to make sure they were quarantined and has to call into a hotline.
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I’ve had several friends have their May and June Canada trips cancelled by the outfitter/camp but they are hopeful the border will be open by September or October. I am not hopeful.
 

Panda Bear

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For what it is worth. As of today there is no word on whether or not there will be a hunting season this fall in The Territories of Canada. Even Canadians from other Provinces in Canada must go through a quarantine and test procedure to enter The Territories.

The 2021 fall hunting season is, at this time totally unknown. Hunts for moose and grizzly are booked solid for 2021, 2022, and 2023 is filling up fast and it will be sold out, if the 2021 hunts do not happen this fall. As mentioned there will be even more bears and time will tell whether or not they will allow more to be hunted in 2022 and 2023, but I would guess they would, especially black bears

As of yesterday if you book a 10 day moose hunt for 30,000.00 dollars in 2023, you will be allowed to hunt 2 black bears, 7 wolf's and one wolverine for free.
 

Randi

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This makes zero sense to me, as one can hunt moose cheaper in Alaska, even a guided hunt. Why are hunters from the U.S. so determined to give their money to Canada instead of Alaska ? I understand those who live in states bordering Canada, going across the border to hunt black bear, fish, maybe even Caribou, but I dont understand spending more in Canada than in Alaska to hunt Moose
 

Gellar

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This makes zero sense to me, as one can hunt moose cheaper in Alaska, even a guided hunt. Why are hunters from the U.S. so determined to give their money to Canada instead of Alaska ? I understand those who live in states bordering Canada, going across the border to hunt black bear, fish, maybe even Caribou, but I dont understand spending more in Canada than in Alaska to hunt Moose
All the people I know that have hunted Canada need to get that subspecies for their moose slam or already have a relationship with the outfitter because they have been on fishing trips with them.
 

OntarioHunter

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It would be nice if the us and Canada could come to an agreement and at least have a strategy as to opening the border, like if A,B, and C are met we will reopen the border. But right now they just close it for 30 days and say they will reevaluate at that time. So businesses, property owners, fisherman, hunters and tourists are all left wondering if they will be able to go to Canada this year.
Well, it would also be nice if they could predict how the virus is going to act or change itself. It would also be nice if the govts could predict how effective immunization is going to be and when herd immunity will be achieved. But they can't. Too many variables changing day to day. As of midnight tonight Ontario borders are closed to ALL traffic. No one from Manitoba or Quebec can cross. And anyone caught driving or walking anyplace that is not essential will get a ticket for $750. Stores, parks, and playgrounds will be closed. No one is going fishing or turkey/bear hunting unless it is in their yard. And why has it come to this? #1 The variants have changed the game immensely. Yesterday there were nearly five thousand new infections in this province alone. Tent wards are being set up in the parking lots of Toronto hospitals. #2 People simply refuse to exercise caution. Stores were opened up with restrictions and people told to use them sparingly. Pfft! Mall parking lots were jammed. People strolling out of Home Depot and Walmart with house plants, lawn furniture, and kitchen mixers. Retailers flooded my mailbox with sales circulars and everyone was bargain hunting. It was nuts. March break finally came this week and everyone took off. But all the while the doctors have been modeling an impending disaster and flooding the news with gloom and doom. No one was listening. The vaccine is here (but just barely). So everything will be fine, right? Nope. The problem is human mobility ... and selfish greed. Also, most of us are social creatures. It's how we evolved. And the virus evolved to capitalize on those characteristics. Indeed that's how it survives. So that's its Achilles heel. We have to change our lives to beat it. People are too stupid, too stubborn, and too selfish to change on their own. So the government has to make them change.
 

Gellar

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Well, it would also be nice if they could predict how the virus is going to act or change itself. It would also be nice if the govts could predict how effective immunization is going to be and when herd immunity will be achieved. But they can't. Too many variables changing day to day. As of midnight tonight Ontario borders are closed to ALL traffic. No one from Manitoba or Quebec can cross. And anyone caught driving or walking anyplace that is not essential will get a ticket for $750. Stores, parks, and playgrounds will be closed. No one is going fishing or turkey/bear hunting unless it is in their yard. And why has it come to this? #1 The variants have changed the game immensely. Yesterday there were nearly five thousand new infections in this province alone. Tent wards are being set up in the parking lots of Toronto hospitals. #2 People simply refuse to exercise caution. Stores were opened up with restrictions and people told to use them sparingly. Pfft! Mall parking lots were jammed. People strolling out of Home Depot and Walmart with house plants, lawn furniture, and kitchen mixers. Retailers flooded my mailbox with sales circulars and everyone was bargain hunting. It was nuts. March break finally came this week and everyone took off. But all the while the doctors have been modeling an impending disaster and flooding the news with gloom and doom. No one was listening. The vaccine is here (but just barely). So everything will be fine, right? Nope. The problem is human mobility ... and selfish greed. Also, most of us are social creatures. It's how we evolved. And the virus evolved to capitalize on those characteristics. Indeed that's how it survives. So that's its Achilles heel. We have to change our lives to beat it. People are too stupid, too stubborn, and too selfish to change on their own. So the government has to make them change.
I understand your point but that does not mean that both governments can’t come together and say “when we achieve “ this” we will enter phase 1 of our reopening plan. During phase 1you can do “this”. When we reach “this” we will enter phase 2 of reopening. Right now there is no criteria. Around the middle of the month the Canadian government announces the border closure will be extended for 30 days and reevaluated at that time. There is no reason as to why it was extended, other than the broad Corona Virus. There is no statement on the reopening process. A lot of people from both countries rely on crossing the border regularly to buy supplies or work, not to mention outfitters and fishing camps that rely on 95% American guests and those people have been left in limbo as to what is going to happen.
 

OntarioHunter

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I understand your point but that does not mean that both governments can’t come together and say “when we achieve “ this” we will enter phase 1 of our reopening plan. During phase 1you can do “this”. When we reach “this” we will enter phase 2 of reopening. Right now there is no criteria. Around the middle of the month the Canadian government announces the border closure will be extended for 30 days and reevaluated at that time. There is no reason as to why it was extended, other than the broad Corona Virus. There is no statement on the reopening process. A lot of people from both countries rely on crossing the border regularly to buy supplies or work, not to mention outfitters and fishing camps that rely on 95% American guests and those people have been left in limbo as to what is going to happen.
I don't think you do understand my point. First, you are assuming there is no plan in place. We don't know that. Perhaps this would have been a more valid assumption during the last administration. Difficult to cooridinate a plan with some guy who's at first in denial that there is a pandemic and then thinks injecting Lysol is a cure. More importantly, it's pretty much impossible to formulate some step by step plan when so many jurisdictions are involved and the disease is evolving daily. Each state and province and health district has their own idea of how things should be handled. And very few have any credible leadership at the helm. Business interests are too often drowning out the medical experts. It is a mess but we have to assume the powers that be are doing the best they can. Why would they do otherwise? Flying by the seat of the pants from moment to moment. It's just too complicated to expect anything different. There is no magic pill. Not yet anyway.
 
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Gellar

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I don't think you do understand my point. First, you are assuming there is no plan in place. We don't know that. Perhaps this would have been a more valid assumption during the last administration. Difficult to cooridinate a plan with some guy who's at first in denial that there is a pandemic and then thinks injecting Lysol is a cure. More importantly, it's pretty much impossible to formulate some step by step plan when so many jurisdictions are involved and the disease is evolving daily. Each state and province and health district has their own idea of how things should be handled. And very few have any credible leadership at the helm. Business interests are too often drowning out the medical experts. It is a mess but we have to assume the powers that be are doing the best they can. Why would they do otherwise? Flying by the seat of the pants from moment to moment. It's just too complicated to expect anything different. There is no magic pill. Not yet anyway.
I’ve been drinking and my comment was not very nice. You are right, I don’t understand your point.
 
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SaskHunter

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I have an archery Alberta bear hunt on the books right now. The outfitter I am going through said that there will be a ton of very big bears shot in the next few years due to this closure.
I set up my bait today! Last year was great, this year should be even better. Not only will this be the second year without American hunters but outfitters won't be running as many, if any, baits this spring. Time will tell but I have a good feeling.

Obviously, I'd rather have the border open and the the tourisim/outfitting industries going but you got to nake the best out of shitty situations
 

Sask hunter

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I set up my bait today! Last year was great, this year should be even better. Not only will this be the second year without American hunters but outfitters won't be running as many, if any, baits this spring. Time will tell but I have a good feeling.

Obviously, I'd rather have the border open and the the tourisim/outfitting industries going but you got to nake the best out of shitty situations
The no Americans for goose hunting in the fall last year was very very nice
 

Rainer

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You also have to realize Canada is now dealing with all the variants now which are far more deadlier then the original virus. The native communities which are high risk are not going to allow anyone onto their land including outfitters. Those northern communities control all the access points up there. The elders are not going to allow hunting over the possibility of killing everyone in their village.

Even with the so called discounts some outfitters are offering. With all expenses, flights ex. It's still cheaper to do 10 day South African hunt for multiple species then it is to do a 7 day Mulley hunt in Alberta.
 

AlaskaHunter

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Ironically, starting on June 1, any tourist traveling to Alaska will be able to receive a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine at the Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau or Ketchikan airports. It’s part of a larger multimillion-dollar marketing campaign, funded by federal stimulus money, to attract tourists back to Alaska. About 75% of seniors in Alaska have been vaccinated.
 

SaskHunter

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You also have to realize Canada is now dealing with all the variants now which are far more deadlier then the original virus. The native communities which are high risk are not going to allow anyone onto their land including outfitters. Those northern communities control all the access points up there. The elders are not going to allow hunting over the possibility of killing everyone in their village.

Even with the so called discounts some outfitters are offering. With all expenses, flights ex. It's still cheaper to do 10 day South African hunt for multiple species then it is to do a 7 day Mulley hunt in Alberta.

That's why the Gov't pushed tons of vaccines to remote and vulnerable locations! Hopefully this has a positive effect on the north with their lack of medical support.

In terms of hunting trips, while I support anyone who wishes to hunt Africa, I personally have absolutely zero interest in it. Sometimes it's not about volume but about that one dream hunt. Personally, I would prefer having regular success on lesser trophies than one trip of a lifetime, but again, I support those who chose to do so.
 

OntarioHunter

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That's why the Gov't pushed tons of vaccines to remote and vulnerable locations! Hopefully this has a positive effect on the north with their lack of medical support.

In terms of hunting trips, while I support anyone who wishes to hunt Africa, I personally have absolutely zero interest in it. Sometimes it's not about volume but about that one dream hunt. Personally, I would prefer having regular success on lesser trophies than one trip of a lifetime, but again, I support those who chose to do so.
I think my last trip to Africa came to about $14,000 all inclusive (even including trophies processed and returned). That was eight animals in ten days ... including cape buffalo. Stack that against $1700 for deer and elk Montana nonresident licenses alone. Add gas, lodging, meat processing, trophy mounting fees, etc and you can at least double that amount ... wait ... taxidermy fees also included? Nope. At LEAST four grand. Outfitter gets in the picture and probably double it again. And just for two animals. IF you even get a shot at two animals. Africa you will definitely see animals! Thousands of em. Everywhere. And very interesting and beautiful country.

The first morning out we drive through a thicket and two impala rams are standing off to our right fifty yards. "Shouldn't we stop?" My PH says no. The landowner in the back seat says we should come back later and get rid of them when we're done hunting. He doesn't want those culls breeding. Around the next corner and we almost drive into a cow rinocerous. Waited till she got out there a hundred yards and then stepped out for a photo. Blesbuck and impala were on the menu but owner says shoot some warthogs if we can find them. They are very destructive and doing poorly in the drought. Took about a half hour to find an open plain with three herds of blesbuck, each with a nice ram. But none of them would let us get close. A threesome of old bachelor rams was wandering around between the herds. We intercepted them on the other side of a small rise and I dropped the largest one the moment he stopped walking. Just over a hundred yards. Loaded it, owner is called back to ranch, and off PH and I go to check out a dry reservoir for hogs. A few there but they scattered before we could get in range. Off to our left about four hundred yards my PH spotted three impala rams in the bottom. We drove to the other side upwind and started a stalk. One magnificent ram broke early but he was breeding stock and off limits. As we were dropping down to find the other two, a bunch of warthogs spooked from thick cover almost underfoot. Busted us and the rams ran up the other side of the ravine. I dropped the second one with one shot, 280 meters. Just as the tracker started to gut it a bull and cow hartbeest jumped out of the bottom below us and stood on the opposite side. We called in for permission to take the bull but landowner said no. He was trying to rebuild his herd hard hit by drought. So it was still early in the first morning and mission already accomplished. Checking out another dry reservoir for nuisance warthogs to cull we spotted a herd of forty wildebeest on the far plain. "Let's get you one of those." But it's not in the lodge's package. "Don't worry. Sean has too many of them. He'll make you a good deal." So we drive way upwind, park, and start our stalk. Damn girraffe off to our right 200 yards busts. Are we screwed? No. Wildebeest make a ruckus when they take off and we heard nothing. No cloud of dust. So we continue. Suddenly PH freezes. A massive eland bull is watching us a hundred yards away. I have absolutely no interest in eland and we quickly moved to get behind cover of acacia brush so he doesn't bust us. Then we spot the wildebeest bull on the other side of the brush. He is staring at the eland and we have to wait for him to turn sideways for a good look at his horns. Finally he turned. "Oh, that's a nice oneBAM." Over he went. Now we have to quit. The pickup is overloaded. We head to the ranch complex for early lunch with landowner and his wife. Just as we cross the last rise PH spots a warthog to left of road that has decent tusks. Now we have four animals ... before lunch of first day. The entire trip already paid for itself as far as I was concerned. But there were nine more days of adventure on as many different properties in wildly different environments. Helluva deal.
 
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thebestusernamesaretaken

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Travelling to hunt in Canada isn't as popular as it is in the US. Most provinces make it mandatory to use a guide or outfitters so the average Canadian hunter sticks to a Province or two.

As for outfitters, prices are always in USD and when it's a 1.30 CAD for a USD those hunts get pretty pricey, factor in the ridiculous price of flying inside Canada and those hunts get pretty pricey. Our population is 10% of the US' so we obviously have less wealthy hunters as you do, it's not that we're poorer than you (our wage average is actually higer but so's everything else). At the end of the day, the average American hunter can't afford a 10k elk hunt, the average Canadian hunter cannot also afford a 10k hunt in Canada, even if the outfitter gives us a "COVID special" and charges the same rate but in CAD istead of USD. TBH, the COVID specials for Canadian hunters weren't all that great either.
Stop the realism! your ruining my fantasy and hope that all Canadian's hunt every big game species every year for min cost!
 

bonedogg

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We do, but we just do it at home! 🤓
After I draw my guaranteed resident Big Horn Sheep tag in an archery only zone, i'll purchase that tag for approx $60 CDN, and my hunting license for $28 CDN, so approx. $71 USD plus tax.

Sure as hell beats 60K USD for the same guided hunt.....
 

Trap

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I don't think you do understand my point. First, you are assuming there is no plan in place. We don't know that. Perhaps this would have been a more valid assumption during the last administration. Difficult to cooridinate a plan with some guy who's at first in denial that there is a pandemic and then thinks injecting Lysol is a cure. More importantly, it's pretty much impossible to formulate some step by step plan when so many jurisdictions are involved and the disease is evolving daily. Each state and province and health district has their own idea of how things should be handled. And very few have any credible leadership at the helm. Business interests are too often drowning out the medical experts. It is a mess but we have to assume the powers that be are doing the best they can. Why would they do otherwise? Flying by the seat of the pants from moment to moment. It's just too complicated to expect anything different. There is no magic pill. Not yet anyway.
In north Idaho we have been almost fully open since around June or July of 2020. A few people where masks if they choose 80-90 percent of people have not worn masks in restaurants,stores and around town. Most Employees of big national chains do have to wear masks and a lot of government buildings required masks. Many Local businesses and restaurants are not requiring masks for employees. Since we are open we have had people in north Idaho for a year as tourists from all 50 states. It has been crazy the amount of out of state plates from everywhere. My 3 kids have been going to school 5 days a week since august of 2020 my son had high school football, wrestling,basketball volleyball no sports were canceled or delayed. We are all still here and doing fine. In fact we are doing better than states that went in total lockdown.I am not a doctor or a biologist and never want to be a politician 😂. Maybe locking everything down and scaring the shit out of everyone is not the right approach? Idaho has had minimal COVID issues and we have opened and stayed open. You might want to also look at the other side and is a total lockdown really the answer? Btw Idaho state was the number one state in the nation for increased tax revenue up 10.5 percent and many of our local businesses are booming. I don’t know the best approach but does it seem like a total lockdown is?? COVID will be like the flu only in that there will continue to be new variants every year forever. What do we do about that stay in our basement for the rest of our lives. Covid is here and it’s not going to leave ever. There are a lot of different strategies to COVID and we can now look back at least a little bit and compare results. Many states that re opened are doing Better than the ones that continue with a lockdown.
 
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