Arrow FOC

[rjthehunter]

Everything I've heard the past few years is a higher foc helps stabilize the arrow quicker and typically penetrates deeper as the arrow shaft is being pulled through by the insert/broadhead weight instead of being pushed by a flimsy shaft.

I shot 400 grain arrows for years with no issues. I'm going to build new arrows this year that put me at about 500-550. I switched this year to cut on contact broadheads and the only thing I was able to notice from the 1 deer I shot was how the arrow passed through seamlessly. The doe jumped and ran just a bit but wasn't sure what happened. Then she walked away bleeding profusely. That would've never happened with the rage expandable I was shooting.

Hunting and fishing are my past times. If I'm not hunting or fishing, I also like tinkering to try and even if I gain a little bit of an advantage it is worth my time!

 

[Ought Six]

The reason I bring it up is I’m wanting to throw some lighted nocks on my arrows without putting any more weight up front, which will put me less than 8% FOC. Will be cheaper for me to just buy the nocks and test them then it will to buy new arrows and put heavier inserts in them, just seeing what was out there for wisdom before I do it and have my heart broken lol

 

[Ought Six]

Everything I've heard the past few years is a higher foc helps stabilize the arrow quicker and typically penetrates deeper as the arrow shaft is being pulled through by the insert/broadhead weight instead of being pushed by a flimsy shaft.

I shot 400 grain arrows for years with no issues. I'm going to build new arrows this year that put me at about 500-550. I switched this year to cut on contact broadheads and the only thing I was able to notice from the 1 deer I shot was how the arrow passed through seamlessly. The doe jumped and ran just a bit but wasn't sure what happened. Then she walked away bleeding profusely. That would've never happened with the rage expandable I was shooting.

Hunting and fishing are my past times. If I'm not hunting or fishing, I also like tinkering to try and even if I gain a little bit of an advantage it is worth my time!

Kind of makes you wonder if it’s a good marketing ploy getting all these hunters who have killed stuff without ever worrying about arrow weight or FoC to buy whole new arrow setups… but I agree if it’s the current rage, I’ll probably tinker with it too! Haha

 

[rjthehunter]

The reason I bring it up is I’m wanting to throw some lighted nocks on my arrows without putting any more weight up front, which will put me less than 8% FOC. Will be cheaper for me to just buy the nocks and test them then it will to buy new arrows and put heavier inserts in them, just seeing what was out there for wisdom before I do it and have my heart broken lol

I know there's some really good info out there. Ranch Fairy on YouTube has studied and tested this stuff extensively. I think a sharp cut on contact broadhead is the most important thing you can have.

 

[Ought Six]

I know there's some really good info out there. Ranch Fairy on YouTube has studied and tested this stuff extensively. I think a sharp cut on contact broadhead is the most important thing you can have.

Yeah I’ve watched a lot of it and done a pile of research, there are good arguments on both sides of the aisle. I’m primarily a western mule deer/elk archery hunter and like a fast setup for the more open country, Ranch Fairy’s theories are great if you’re shooting whiteys and hogs from a stand at distances less than 30 yards

 

[rjthehunter]

Kind of makes you wonder if it’s a good marketing ploy getting all these hunters who have killed stuff without ever worrying about arrow weight or FoC to buy whole new arrow setups… but I agree if it’s the current rage, I’ll probably tinker with it too! Haha

Right. I killed plenty of deer with my light and fast setup. I've lost 1 deer due to hitting the shoulder blade. I'm not going to go to the extreme that he goes to, but it seems like the 500-550 is a happy medium. I'll probably try to get closer to 525, but I don't think it makes that much of a difference. With a perfect shot, it doesn't really matter what you're shooting, but if a deer jumps the string, or you pull a shot, it'd be nice to have a little bit of weight if you hit bone.

 

[golfer]

Did the FOC increase your penetration and drop rate, or did adding 50 more grains to your arrow do that? 50 grains is a significant amount of weight

Is 50 a lot? 50 grains is .11 ounces.

 

[MThuntr]

arrow shaft is being pulled through by the insert/broadhead weight instead of being pushed

not arguing about FOC but physics definitely doesn't work this way.

 

[Ought Six]

Is 50 a lot? 50 grains is .11 ounces.

Yeah depending on your draw length, bow IBO, poundage, etc., 50 grains can make a huge impact. I like to be able to practice extreme long ranges, it’s good for form, and every inconsistency you have shows up at long range. With my current setup, 50 grains is a difference of about 17fps and 2’ of arrow drop at 100 yards

 

[sclancy27]

FOC is down at the bottom of things that matter for archery hunters. More important items are a well-tuned bow, poperly spined arrows fitted to your specific setup, good form and lots of practice, reasonable arrow weight, a sharp capable broadhead (whether fixed or expandable) and having your wits about you during the shot opportunity. Ask any professional target archer how much they care about FOC....hint, they don't give a shit. FOC worry is for people who put way too much time into the minutiae instead of addressing things that actually affect the outcome. If you want to spend a bunch of money on something that does almost nothing, go for it.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

The reason I bring it up is I’m wanting to throw some lighted nocks on my arrows without putting any more weight up front, which will put me less than 8% FOC. Will be cheaper for me to just buy the nocks and test them then it will to buy new arrows and put heavier inserts in them, just seeing what was out there for wisdom before I do it and have my heart broken lol

If you want to simulate the additional rear weight of a lighted nock to see how they fly before you buy, glue a short piece of threaded rod inside an unlighted nock.

Below is a weighted practice nock I made by supergluing a piece of 6-32 threaded steel rod inside a Bohning A Nock. 6-32 steel rod weighs approximately 21 grains per inch and fits nicely inside .204" nocks. 8-32 rod fits better in standard diameter (.245") nocks.

 

[sclancy27]

not arguing about FOC but physics definitely doesn't work this way.

Physics and FOC lunacy cannot be reconciled...

 

[sclancy27]

The reason I bring it up is I’m wanting to throw some lighted nocks on my arrows without putting any more weight up front, which will put me less than 8% FOC. Will be cheaper for me to just buy the nocks and test them then it will to buy new arrows and put heavier inserts in them, just seeing what was out there for wisdom before I do it and have my heart broken lol

It will make your arrow stiffer. Usually, a stiffer than needed arrow for the bow does not affect downrange performance, within reason. The same cannot be said for an underspined (weak) arrow. That will affect fixed blade flight.

 

[Ought Six]

FOC is down at the bottom of things that matter for archery hunters. More important items are a well-tuned bow, poperly spined arrows fitted to your specific setup, good form and lots of practice, reasonable arrow weight, a sharp capable broadhead (whether fixed or expandable) and having your wits about you during the shot opportunity. Ask any professional target archer how much they care about FOC....hint, they don't give a shit. FOC worry is for people who put way too much time into the minutiae instead of addressing things that actually affect the outcome. If you want to spend a bunch of money on something that does almost nothing, go for it.

Thanks for your input. Those were kind of my thoughts too, but when you are sitting at home or at work thinking about hunting, I tend to go down some major rabbit holes in respect to how to make my system better, not sure why, it’s never failed me in the past..

 

[Ought Six]

If you want to simulate the additional rear weight of a lighted nock to see how they fly before you buy, glue a short piece of threaded rod inside an unlighted nock.

Below is a weighted practice nock I made by supergluing a piece of 6-32 threaded steel rod inside a Bohning A Nock. 6-32 steel rod weighs approximately 21 grains per inch and fits nicely inside .204" nocks. 8-32 rod fits better in standard diameter (.245") nocks.
View attachment 262070

That’s a great idea I might give that a shot

 

[Ought Six]

It will make your arrow stiffer. Usually, a stiffer than needed arrow for the bow does not affect downrange performance, within reason. The same cannot be said for an underspined (weak) arrow. That will affect fixed blade flight.

Ah I knew it would stiffen the arrow shaft but did not think about it from this standpoint. Good idea.

 

[sclancy27]

Thanks for your input. Those were kind of my thoughts too, but when you are sitting at home or at work thinking about hunting, I tend to go down some major rabbit holes in respect to how to make my system better, not sure why, it’s never failed me in the past..

I think the best thing you could do is shoot at the indoor range over lunch and work on your shot process.....That's what I do

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Interesting. Both of your arrows had the same total weight? Do you mind sharing the details of how each arrow was constructed (shaft make/model/spine/length, component weights)? I'm curious how great the difference in FOC was and what else you changed (besides insert weight) to keep TAW the same.

No no I must have mislead you somewhere. I see what you and tone are saying. I added the weight up front, the arrows were 50 grains less beforehand, so I totally see what you’re saying about still having it contribute to overall weight, not necessarily just FOC. Forgive me. As I said, I just observed a greater nosedive after adding them. I wanted deeper penetration, which it provided.

 

[KB_]

Here I thought the FOC conversation had finally died. FOC!!!!!

 

[BackofBeyond]

F=MA

A 550 gr arrow with 8% FOC will penetrate the exact same as a 550 gr arrow with 22% FOC.

Adding FOC is just a shortcut past properly tuning your arrow/components to your bow.