Are the Dam Breeching Advocates Crying Wolf?

[BHR]

Idaho sent me a flyer with my life time license renewal. It states: "due to a variety of positive factors, Idaho has been blessed with a number of very high chinook salmon and stealhead runs in 2001,2002, and 2003, allowing the F&G to set the most liberal limits in the last quarter century. The 2003 hatchery spring and summer jack return was sufficient to merit interest and likelihood of some 2004 chinook fisheries in the Salmon and Clearwater drainages, and possibly the Snake."

There you go Gloom and Doomers. Quit whinning on your computers and go fishing. That is unless you think the wolves ate all the salmon!

Paul

 

[JoseCuervo]

Paul,

And I'll even help point out where in the 1000 miles of rivers of Idaho everybody should go fish.

Spot 1. Outlet pipe at hatchery in Ahsaka, as that is where these fish are imprinted to call home. If you can get your boat in the water early enough, you will get one of the 10 closest spots to fish from. Bring lots of line and leader, so when you snag the other guys, you have something to replace.

Spot 2. Bluff hole on Little Salmon. These are the fish trying to get back to Rapid River hatchery. The Hatchery that Idaho Power is trying to use to make up for killing every wild Salmon above Hells Canyon dam. Make sure you are down in the water, standing shoulder to shoulder with the other 30 guys at least 1 hour before legal fishing hours. And what ever you do, don't cast out of turn, as you will tangle 10 guys in 10 seconds.

Spot 3. Up against the dam at Hells Canyon, as this is where the Snake fish were released, and that is where they are imprinted to go, as they bang their heads against the Dam.

Yeppers, 1000's of miles of Rivers in Idaho, and you too can go fish with 50 other people in 50 yards of water for the same genetically inferior hatchery fish....

 

[BuzzH]

Paul, did the Idaho Game and Fish also tell you that between 1978 and 1999, there was not a single salmon season on the Main Salmon, Clearwater, and Snake? I bet they left that part out didnt they?

A couple years of good runs of hatchery fish does not mean a thing.

Another question: Did the Idaho Game and Fish also tell you that every run of wild steelhead and salmon in Idaho is still on the ES list? I bet they left that out too.

Did they forget to mention that only 90% of the hatchery smolts are killed going through the Snake River dams? You know killing fish that your license dollars pay for?

Ask them to start telling the whole story.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-12-2003 08:25: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>

 

[Ten Bears]

EG, try fishing the stretch above the hatchery at Ahsaka. The fish are imprinted with the water drawn from Dworshak, and if you fish the strech between the mainstem and the dam you'll find good fishing from shore without the crowding.

And if you like fishing the Little Salmon River down by Rapid River, maybe you should try the fishing and hole on the other side of the river (away from the highway). It takes a bit of walking, but the crowding is less, and you can pick up all the gear the guys on the other side lost.

Both these areas are great for fishing, if you don't mind walking......

BUZZ, do the Ahsaka and Rapid River smolt really run through the dams on the Snake????

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-12-2003 09:32: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears said, "BUZZ, do the Ahsaka and Rapid River smolt really run through the dams on the Snake???? "

You trying to be a smart ass, or are you really that oblivious?

If you have to ask that question, you dont know much about anadromous fish.

Last time I checked there was only one way to the Pacific for smolt....via the Snake.

 

[Ten Bears]

Iwas under the impression that most of those smolt were barged, and the only way for them to get to the ocean is through the COLUMBIA RIVER. The Snake doesn't run to the ocean on it's own.

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears, you need to look at a map of the rivers in Idaho.

Barging is even worse than the smolt getting ground up in turbines. The fish need to recognize scents in the various tributaries as they migrate down if they want to make it back. When barging was at its high-point, a good portion of the B-run steelhead, from Dworsak, were heading into the John Day river instead of going on up to Idaho.

Also, the ISSU, proved and asked for elimation of the barge system, which wasnt working and actually DECREASING adult returns.

 

[Ten Bears]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Ten bears, you need to look at a map of the rivers in Idaho. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, not really. Not unless you're going to argue about whether the COLUMBIA, not the Snake is the river that flows into the ocean. And BTW, are you also going to dispute the connection between Dworshak dam and the Ahsaka hatchery, or Rapid River on the Little Salmon river? Otherwise, I'd just like to hear you, IT, and EG go through your hatred of dams diatribe again.

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears,

Check the map...any fish that leave the clearwater or salmon river, or return to those rivers, migrate down the Snake, then into the Columbia, then into the Pacific. From there, they usually migrate North. Then they make the same trip, only in reverse (so you dont get confused) when they return.

There, I gave you a geography lesson for today.

There is no argument, only the fact that the Snake River Dams need to be breeched to save wild salmon and steelhead runs in Idaho. Simple as that, and the data proves it.

Now, go find your map...

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-12-2003 14:25: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>

 

[Ten Bears]

You said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Last time I checked there was only one way to the Pacific for smolt....via the Snake. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My point is it should read via the Columbia. The Snake portion just has the dams you guys hate is all.

It's not the last step in getting to the ocean.

 

[JoseCuervo]

From Today's Paper, on the Editorial page...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Stephen Pauley: It’s time for Idaho’s leaders to support 21st century river economics

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In response to your editorial of Nov. 16, “Threat of salmon lawsuit undermines negotiations.”
1. Nobody likes litigation, but the continued record of inaction by federal agencies on meaningful wild fish recovery measures forces salmon groups to ask the courts to enforce existing laws that, if followed, would protect salmon and steelhead: the Endangered Species Act, the Clean Water Act, and the Northwest Power Act.

At this moment, the reality is that the federal courts are the only friends in high places that the salmon have.

Two federal biological opinions (1994 and 2000) have been found by the courts to be in violation of the ESA. Federal judges sent them back for revision.

If the federal agencies (Army Corps of Engineers, Bonneville Power Administration, and NOAA Fisheries) seriously want native salmon recovery, they surely have no track record to show for it. The General Accounting Office found that 3.3 billion of taxpayer dollars were spent on “fish recovery” over the past 20 years, and native fish are still endangered. Despite recently improved ocean conditions and the returns of large numbers of hatchery salmon and steelhead, native fish counts are still below the numbers needed to remove them from the ESA´s endangered or threatened list.

2. A large majority of independent fishery biologists and NOAA Fisheries´ 2000 Biological Opinion (the so-called federal salmon recovery plan) say that fall chinook need cool water and increased flows in the Snake River in summer to aid smolt migration and to assist adult fish in moving upstream to spawn. That means the 427,000 acre-feet of upper Snake River water are needed. But that will happen only when politics and subsidies take a back seat to sound science and prudent fisheries management.

3. Sen. Mike Crapo´s idea of turning the ESA over to the states is about the worst idea yet to come out of his negotiation talks. It would be a final death sentence for wild salmon and steelhead.

Of course, congressional delegates everywhere are driven by local politics. In the Northwest, re-election depends on continually delivering water, power and crop subsidies to farmers and ranchers. If salmon and steelhead recovery were to fall under Idaho´s politicians, the wild fish in the Snake and Salmon rivers would never receive the amounts of water nor the velocity of water needed to prevent their extinction.

4. In his years as a U.S. representative, and now as a U.S. senator, Crapo has never put forward a plan that helped native salmon. He promotes the “paralysis of analysis.” He holds hearings, and talks about local control while native fish continue to decline. To expect Sen. Crapo to change his ways now is unrealistic.

Sen. Crapo will continue to pose as a salmon recovery mediator when his true allegiances are to his electorate, the farmers and ranchers, and not to the recovery of wild salmon and steelhead.

5. The economy of Idaho is not only farming and ranching, but also the growing millions of dollars spent on sports fishing and recreation.

It´s time for Idaho´s Sens. Crapo and Larry Craig, and Reps. C.L. “Butch” Otter and Mike Simpson, to enter Idaho´s 21st century and give equal weight to both economic interests.

Edition Date: 12-12-2003

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-12-2003 20:55: Message edited by: ElkGunner ]</font>

 

[ELKCHSR]

I have two salmon in the freezer that came out of the Salmon river north of Salmon Idaho that were caught last year...The person that I got them from had caught their limit all season and had theres and freinds freezers full of the endangered fish!!!

 

[BuzzH]

Hey elkchsr...hatchery fish arent endangered, just every single run of WILD salmon and steelhead in Idaho.

Try to comprehend...I know its a challenge for you.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey Elkchsr...

You might want to slow down on your posting, and start thinking about what you post. You are now in violation of many State and Federal Laws. There has not been an opend Salmon season on the Salmon, North of Salmon in many years. If what you are claiming is true, you are in Violation of Idaho Fish and Game laws, Federal Endagnered Species Laws, and the Lacy Act.

I would suggest you eat Salmon for Breakfast in the Morning, before you get a knock on the Door from a Law Enforcement Officer.

Elkchsr posted
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have two salmon in the freezer that came out of the Salmon river north of Salmon Idaho that were caught last year...The person that I got them from had caught their limit all season and had theres and freinds freezers full of the endangered fish!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[ELKCHSR]

I guess I should have said Steelhead...

 

[JoseCuervo]

I doubt you know the difference between Salmon and Steelhead. But I find it interesting you change your story, only when pointed out you are breaking numerous laws.

Would you like to change your story again, or is it up to us to decide if you are a Poacher or just don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Ten Bears]

I's think's he's a poacher.

I like my salmon smoked not poached, but from what I hear's: You can't poach a smoked salmon, but you can always smoke a poached salmon.

Eat up EC.