AR 15 and 10 type rifles

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Does requiring a drivers license eliminate bad driving - Nope.

The issue is a small percentage of people make a choice commit crime.

I think you bogged yourself down in the details, not the overall idea which is what I was more pointing toward.

For example, you are correct it doesn't eliminate bad driving, but after you make a serious mistake you lose your rights to drive for set period of time, same could be applied to the ammo.

Or look at it from another angle, many states require your vehicle to pass inspection every year. I would argue that keeps dangerous vehicles off the road there by decreasing accidents, could the same model be applied toward ammunition?


What I'm trying to get at, don't bog down in the details, this is more a high level theoretical debate to bring some new ideas to a debate that seems to always dance in the same square.

 

[BrentD]

The devil is in the details however. Your idea is pretty nearly unenforceable, and if we have to wait until someone "makes a serious mistake" isn't that a bit like closing the barn door after the horse is out?

No, I don't think your idea is viable conceptually, and I'm certain it is not doable pragmatically.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Does requiring a drivers license eliminate bad driving - Nope.

"Eliminate" is a strong term. I strongly assert that drivers' education and the requirement to qualify for and retain a driver's license significantly reduces the overall risks of bad driving.

Unfortunately humanity includes ignorant and/or stupid people. You can fix/educate the ignorant, but as my daughter says, "You just can't fix stupid!"

 

[Gut Shot]

What if it looks more like: If you want to buy this ammo you have to take a yearly gun safety course and pass a mental evaluation?


What if we start treating it like your drivers license, you have to keep it up to date if you want to shoot and poses ammunition. Get caught without it up to date while hunting and you get a ticket, or something to that affect.

Just a couple of problems with that. One you have a right to own and carry a gun, not to drive a car.

Two, we have almost that exact thing here in Illinois. It's called a FOID or Firearms Owners Identification Card. What it really is is government permission to exercise your second amendment rights. You can't purchase a gun or ammunition in the state without one.

You submit an application to the state police. They do a background check and make sure you don't have a felony on your record or a history of mental issues. Then a few months later the king sends you a card saying you can own guns.

As any cursory look at shooting stats in Chicago will tell you, criminals have no problem getting guns and ammo. Also, the FOID card is defacto registration.

You might as well try to make murder illegaler (yes I know that isn't a word) to stop violent crimes, it will have the same effect.

 

[dirtclod Az.]

I'm going to go a little bit against the grain here, so bear with me everyone...

What if instead of restricting gun buying and ownership (which I think we can all agree is a very hot button topic... Haha) we work on a different kind of model.

I'm just brainstorming here, so keep that in mind. What if we start restricting ammunition. And I don't mean in the traditional sense, like hey you can't buy x number of bullets. What if it looks more like: If you want to buy this ammo you have to take a yearly gun safety course and pass a mental evaluation?


What if we start treating it like your drivers license, you have to keep it up to date if you want to shoot and poses ammunition. Get caught without it up to date while hunting and you get a ticket, or something to that affect.

I don't think many people here would disagree that having to pass a drivers exam is an overburden to be able to drive a vehicle, so why would doing the same for ammo be that bad?

And who is going to pay the people to teach the courses and give the mental evaluations?
Think the taxpayers are gonna go for that,NOT!

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

And who is going to pay the people to teach the courses and give the mental evaluations?
Think the taxpayers are gonna go for that,NOT!

You would have to pay for those yourself, and then there would be a licensing fee just like for a driver's license.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

And who is going to pay the people to teach the courses and give the mental evaluations?
Think the taxpayers are gonna go for that,NOT!

Do we as taxpayers really have any say any more in what we pay for?
I'd love to pay less for the DOD (or social security or whatever else) and spend more on roads and heart disease research, but I don't see that happening in the future....

 

[Greyman]

For the past 21 years, I have been on the board of our local gun club. Needless to say, I'm a very strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Something has changed in the past 10 years though. There are two things that will get you kicked out of our club immediately, unsafe behavior (blatantly not following range safety rules) and destruction of property (deliberately shooting things you're not supposed to shoot like flag poles and posts). This is enforced by our range masters, members, and verified with cameras on the range.
For the first many years, we never had to ask anyone to leave. Any safety slip-ups were handled immediately, verbally by our range masters, and everyone went home safe. Destruction of property just didn't happen.
Increasingly over the past 10 years or so, we have had to revoke the membership of several members for both of these things. It usually starts with the range master confronting the person violating the rule, a heated argument, calling the sheriff's department, and then revocation of membership by the board after reviewing the evidence.
In EVERY case that I have been asked to review, it has been a newer shooter with an AR type rifle. The person is almost always defiant and disrespectful of the range masters. We went from no person ever asked to leave to 17 people in the last 10 years.
Just my personal observation.

 

[sbhooper]

[/QUOTE]
You seriously did not just say that. LMFAO! Gun right

Background: Lifelong shooter, gun owner, hunter, thirty-year US Army career, two tours Vietnam, having pulled the trigger on everything from a 38 cal pistol to the main gun on an M1 Abrams main battle tank.

Acknowledgement: Hunt Talk forum members are responsible, respectful, safe firearms owners and users. Most firearms owners are likewise safe and prudent in use of firearms.
Gun owners are highly protective of 2nd Amendment rights.

Statement: The significant increase in marketing of “tactical” gear and clothing, along with the proliferation and popularity of AR-15 and other “assault rifle” type weapons, emulating what has previously been employed by the military and law enforcement, has spawned a subset of gun owners who are much less respectful and safe. Such gear and weaponry obviously appeals to those who are more or less emotionally and mentally unstable. The widely disseminated video displays of blowing things up, rapidly firing at targets, not for accuracy but for destruction, only serves to stimulate and motivate “stupid human” tricks which shine a bad light on firearms usage. IMO those irresponsible firearms owners present a far greater threat to the 2nd Amendment than even the most staunch gun control advocates.

Further opinion: It is time to accept more stringent and thorough background checks, ban bump stocks, apply more oversight to ownership of “assault rifle” type weapons, and generally agree that there is a need to discuss firearms ownership in a more responsible way than merely the monotonous repetition of the phrase “slippery slope” with regard to 2nd Amendment rights. It is also time to enforce existing laws.

Message to the wannabe “tactical” testosterone laden gun-nut militants: “Step up, sign up, train up, and serve in a constructive venue!”

People with your attitude just don't get it. These gun control cretins will stop at nothing. This is just the beginning. If you give anything up, they don't stop, they keep going for the jugular. They will not stop, until ALL guns are banned. They are lunatics.

Bumps stocks are a joke! They only work if you hold the gun correctly and if you think that fool in Las Vegas shot two different rifles at the same time with bump stocks, you are not familiar with them and you swallowed the Kool Aid. My kid learned the hard way what AKs sound like in combat. There were two different rifles firing at the same time. They are nothing but a poster child. They are irrelevant. Ban them! Who gives a damn!

As far as "assault-style" rifles, you obviously have your own opinion of them, having served in Nam. They are the most popular firearm today and they are good for defense, hunting, target shooting, or whatever. I carried one in the Marine Corps, Border Patrol, and for a year in Iraq, but I have no use for them. I prefer my bolt guns. That being said, I have no right to bad mouth someone else that enjoys shooting and or building AR-style weapons. I don't personally like them, but that is my opinion. If you ban these "terrible" weapons, then what is next? Your semi-auto shotgun, or rim fire? This whole gun ban thing is a slippery slope and our freedom is going to suffer if ANY of 2nd Amendment is infringed upon.

After these vicious rifles are banned, what is next? That douche bag mayor of London is looking for a knife ban, because of lunatic moslems. Where does the ban stop? Cars, knives, baseball bats, axes, chainsaws, pointy sticks, hammers, screw drivers, forks, the list goes on. The whole ban concept is completed stupid and is a feel-good move. This society has gotten so sick, that anything banned will mean nothing. Sick people will find a way.

Background checks don't stop anything. The only thing that may help is if anybody treated for mental illness is listed in the system. Even that does little, as most shooters have clean records. Red Flag laws are a complete travesty of justice and have already lead to deaths, when idiot cops stormed into a house to seize someone's weapons. Disgraceful overreach. If this crap is applied to guns, maybe it should be applied to cars? Where does it stop, for the sake of pleasing a feel-good left-leaning society that wants a band aid fix.

It will be easy to get this ban rolling. Just vote for one of the plethora of libtards that are running for president on the next round.

 

[Straight Arrow]

sbhooper quote: You seriously did not just say that. LMFAO! Gun right

People with your attitude just don't get it. These gun control cretins will stop at nothing. This is just the beginning. If you give anything up, they don't stop, they keep going for the jugular. They will not stop, until ALL guns are banned. They are lunatics.

Bumps stocks are a joke! They only work if you hold the gun correctly and if you think that fool in Las Vegas shot two different rifles at the same time with bump stocks, you are not familiar with them and you swallowed the Kool Aid. My kid learned the hard way what AKs sound like in combat. There were two different rifles firing at the same time. They are nothing but a poster child. They are irrelevant. Ban them! Who gives a damn!

As far as "assault-style" rifles, you obviously have your own opinion of them, having served in Nam. They are the most popular firearm today and they are good for defense, hunting, target shooting, or whatever. I carried one in the Marine Corps, Border Patrol, and for a year in Iraq, but I have no use for them. I prefer my bolt guns. That being said, I have no right to bad mouth someone else that enjoys shooting and or building AR-style weapons. I don't personally like them, but that is my opinion. If you ban these "terrible" weapons, then what is next? Your semi-auto shotgun, or rim fire? This whole gun ban thing is a slippery slope and our freedom is going to suffer if ANY of 2nd Amendment is infringed upon.

After these vicious rifles are banned, what is next? That douche bag mayor of London is looking for a knife ban, because of lunatic moslems. Where does the ban stop? Cars, knives, baseball bats, axes, chainsaws, pointy sticks, hammers, screw drivers, forks, the list goes on. The whole ban concept is completed stupid and is a feel-good move. This society has gotten so sick, that anything banned will mean nothing. Sick people will find a way.

Background checks don't stop anything. The only thing that may help is if anybody treated for mental illness is listed in the system. Even that does little, as most shooters have clean records. Red Flag laws are a complete travesty of justice and have already lead to deaths, when idiot cops stormed into a house to seize someone's weapons. Disgraceful overreach. If this crap is applied to guns, maybe it should be applied to cars? Where does it stop, for the sake of pleasing a feel-good left-leaning society that wants a band aid fix.

It will be easy to get this ban rolling. Just vote for one of the plethora of libtards that are running for president on the next round.
[/QUOTE]

The term "lunatic" ... apropos.

 

[Cogreeny]

I am ready for some steps to be taken on stricter gun control. Won't stop all of the problems, but any steps at this point will help

I believe all firearm sales should involve a background check. Public or private
I'm for a capacity limit on firearms.

Everyone on here is dumber if they read this and believed it

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Everyone on here is dumber if they read this and believed it

Just because someone has a different view point, or opinion, does not make them dumb or wrong...

 

[Cogreeny]

Just because someone has a different view point, or opinion, does not make them dumb or wrong...

I would encourage you to go hand in your firearms and freedom to the gun grabbing left as for me I shall keep mine no matter the cost.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I would encourage you to go hand in your firearms and freedom to the gun grabbing left as for me I shall keep mine no matter the cost.

There is of course a middle ground - we each keep our guns and respect that we may have differences of opinion around the details of how to keep them out of the hands of crazies and criminals.

 

[Cogreeny]

There is of course a middle ground - we each keep our guns and respect that we may have differences of opinion around the details of how to keep them out of the hands of crazies and criminals.

Banning my freedoms certainly doesn’t keep guns out of the hands of crazies I want to be as well armed as possible should I encounter said crazy person. Which would you choose AR with 30 round mag assuming you know how to use it or ol Betsy the bolt gun?

 

[jtm307]

If you listed all the things that kill people in the US and ranked them in descending order, AR-15's are so far down the list, they wouldn't warrant a single sentence in any major printed news source. Sensationalism sells. Look up the stats on deaths due to medical errors. That's what should scare people.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Banning my freedoms certainly doesn’t keep guns out of the hands of crazies I want to be as well armed as possible should I encounter said crazy person. Which would you choose AR with 30 round mag assuming you know how to use it or ol Betsy the bolt gun?

I am pro 2A person but every single constitutional right is subject to restriction and regulation. The question is which are effective and which are acceptable within the constitutional boundaries. Personally I am ok with universal background checks, think bump stocks are dumb but am not too thrilled with mag limits. But I respect that other well intentioned HT colleagues may draw the lines a little different than I would, and will not label them as dumb because of it.

 

[Cogreeny]

I am pro 2A person but every single constitutional right is subject to restriction and regulation. The question is which are effective and which are acceptable within the constitutional boundaries. Personally I am ok with universal background checks, think bump stocks are dumb but am not too thrilled with mag limits. But I respect that other well intentioned HT colleagues may draw the lines a little different than I would, and will not label them as dumb because of it.

You didn’t answer my question.... and no one was labeled dumb if you read I said we are all dumber if we read that and believe it not that he was dumb.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Opioids lead to more deaths than DUIs, so let's not worry about drunk driving. Does that make sense to you? Sound-bite rhetoric about gun rights ad nauseum. Please try to acknowledge that there is a profound emotional perception regarding gun violence and particularly bump stocks, high capacity magazines, "assault rifles" and other issues. It's not going to go away and the phrase "slippery slope" is not going to lead to solutions. Rather than continue to puff up chests and talk about how you may protect yourself and others by packing an AR-15 with a large capacity clip-in magazine, how about thinking rationally and creating some solutions which work for you and me as firearms owners and hunters ... and provide some reasonable safeguards and assurances for the general population (comprised of mostly on-the-fence gun control voters who can fall to one side or the other based on the next mass casualty event or someone showing up in public with their AR-15 and a big mag) ?

 

[Cogreeny]

Opioids lead to more deaths than DUIs, so let's not worry about drunk driving. Does that make sense to you? Sound-bite rhetoric about gun rights ad nauseum. Please try to acknowledge that there is a profound emotional perception regarding gun violence and particularly bump stocks, high capacity magazines, "assault rifles" and other issues. It's not going to go away and the phrase "slippery slope" is not going to lead to solutions. Rather than continue to puff up chests and talk about how you may protect yourself and others by packing an AR-15 with a large capacity clip, how about thinking rationally and creating some solutions which work for you and me as firearms owners and hunters ... and provide some reasonable safeguards and assurances for the general population (comprised of mostly on-the-fence gun control voters who can fall to one side or the other based on the next mass casualty event or someone showing up in public with their AR-15 and a big mag) ?

You choose your freedoms I’ll choose mine. Don’t like ARs don’t buy one don’t like high capacity magazines don’t buy one. You nor the government should tell responsible gun owners what they should or shouldn’t have within the existing laws today. It’s a magazine by the way not a “clip”