AR 15 and 10 type rifles

RockinU

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I will not buy the "whatabout all the mass shootings by gang members" argument. That is a social problem that cannot be influenced by laws, or mental health care, so let's completely set aside that phenomenon for a minute. We now live in a culture where disaffected young men who legally buy semi auto weapons and large capacity mags, and then go on suicide murder rampages like they're in some fictional first person shooter game. This is ridiculous. I am well aware that dramatically cutting off access to this type of equipment will not dramatically reduce gun deaths overall in America, but it has the potential to seriously cut into this type of domestic terrorism. I'm fully aware 99.9% of legally owned semiautomatic guns are not misused, but our freedom to own such things is not worth the cost of even one more of these types of mass shootings in my opinion. This will leave these cowards to use pump shotguns or rent trucks and drive them into crowds. So be it. You can't cause as much damage doing that than the Vegas shooter.

furthermore, semiautomatic guns serve no practical civilian purpose. You dont need them to defend your home. Get a pump shotgun and buckshot. You also can't practically use them to guard against the tyranny of the government in this day and age.

I was a slippery slope advocate for a long time. I've dropped this. At this point I don't even care if it is a slippery slope or not. I'm sick of living with all this needless gun violence in our country and if that means I have to do a background check for private gun sale, register my guns, get a FOID card, use a smart handgun, whatever - sign me up if it will help solve our gun violence problem. I know this will cost me more and be a hassle too. I'm fine with all that.

to those of you who think such ideas betray 2nd amendment, solidarity with all gun owners, etc know that I respect your opinions too and I am open to being persuade differently. I just will not accept the line "people kill people, not guns." It really is both. It's far to easy for bad people to do the bad things they are going to anyways by how cheap, easily accessible, and quick it is to amass a personal mass murder kit.
I understand that you feel this way, but I'd like to address some things.

First, if you're not going to buy the mass shootings by gang members, then you are going to have to take those numbers out of the statistics, so if we are going to set it aside, then we need to mitigate the mass shooting statistics accordingly.

We have lived in a society where disaffected young men have been able to legally buy semi auto weapons and mags for a long time, this isn't a now thing...heck, when I was a kid, you could buy a surplus M1 carbine out of a wooden barrel by the counter at Western Auto. Access is much more controlled and difficult now than it was then, yet the prevalence of these tragedies is higher now.

I hate to have to say this, because it sounds cold and callous when I even think it, but you just as well get ready for the next one of these tragedies, because it's coming. There isn't a thing we can do to stop it. You could make a law tomorrow that every semi-auto rifle in America has to be turned in by Monday, and it wouldn't stop it. It's a sad terrible truth, but the answer to stopping some of these doesn't lie in adjusting firearms policy, but in finding ways to identify people who pose a threat, and getting them the help they need. We don't have a gun violence problem, we have a violence problem.

I'm not going to try and change your mind, everyone needs to reach their own conclusions on things such as this, nor would I advocate for anyone to ostracize you from "the club", but I would encourage you to reexamine the facts from a place with less emotion, and really weigh whether or not any of these things would make a real difference, because if you look back at many of these tragedies, most of the things you mentioned would not have...and if it's just a measure mollify the raw emotions of the masses without accomplishing any real results, then what's the point? All you've done is waste a lot of time, energy and probably political capital that could have been spent finding results that would accomplish something.
 

Gr8bawana

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RockinU please tell us which of these horrific mass shootings such as Odessa, El Paso, Dayton, Gilroy, Virginia Beach, Las Vegas and so on, was committed by gang members.
Please tell us.
 

SandyCreek

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RockinU please tell us which of these horrific mass shootings such as Odessa, El Paso, Dayton, Gilroy, Virginia Beach, Las Vegas and so on, was committed by gang members.
Please tell us.
we should just make murder illegal. that's a law that would solve all the problems. The truth is you can do just as much damage with a rental van and some fertilizer, or a goddamn box cutter on an airplane. you can't legislate the safety of each individual american. undeniably these shootings are tragic but I'm not giving up my rights because it feels good, if someone kicks in my door in the middle of the night i won't reach for a flintlock to protect my family. Anyone who supports giving up an AR-15 you might as well give all your guns up because that's what will happen. Some fatherless kid who was bullied will go into a school with grandpas pump shotgun, then "oh well no american needs those" on down the line until you can't even have a muzzleloader.
 
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noharleyyet

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....crickets

Just in case you’ve been wondering how many people John Wick has killed over the course of his three films, we have an answer for you thanks to a video shared by Rotten Tomatoes. So let’s jump right in to the answer that you clicked through to find out.

In John Wick, he kills 77 people. In John Wick: Chapter 2, he kills 128 people. And in John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum, he ends up taking out 94 people. So, the total number of kills comes to 299.

That’s a lot of people and that body count is only going to grow as the franchise continues to give us more sequels! You can check out the video breakdown of the kills below.


 

clharr

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....crickets

Just in case you’ve been wondering how many people John Wick has killed over the course of his three films, we have an answer for you thanks to a video shared by Rotten Tomatoes. So let’s jump right in to the answer that you clicked through to find out.

In John Wick, he kills 77 people. In John Wick: Chapter 2, he kills 128 people. And in John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum, he ends up taking out 94 people. So, the total number of kills comes to 299.

That’s a lot of people and that body count is only going to grow as the franchise continues to give us more sequels! You can check out the video breakdown of the kills below.


Ban PENCILS!!!!!
 

BrentD

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....crickets

Just in case you’ve been wondering how many people John Wick has killed over the course of his three films, we have an answer for you thanks to a video shared by Rotten Tomatoes. So let’s jump right in to the answer that you clicked through to find out.

In John Wick, he kills 77 people. In John Wick: Chapter 2, he kills 128 people. And in John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum, he ends up taking out 94 people. So, the total number of kills comes to 299.

That’s a lot of people and that body count is only going to grow as the franchise continues to give us more sequels! You can check out the video breakdown of the kills below.


Impressive. I think "The Rifleman" killed only about 125 or so over his run on TV, but that was before there were high-cap magazines and the like. The Rifleman vs. John Wick... something to ponder.
 

RockinU

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Texas
RockinU please tell us which of these horrific mass shootings such as Odessa, El Paso, Dayton, Gilroy, Virginia Beach, Las Vegas and so on, was committed by gang members.
Please tell us.
I'm not sure exactly what your getting at. It's obvious that none of those were committed by gang members. However, if you look at the number of mass shootings being thrown around by every media outlet around, many of what they are calling mass shootings are in fact gang related incidents. The loss of life is no less tragic, but they are definitely distinctly different events.

Also would like to note, it wasn't my idea to set them aside for the sake of this discussion, that was directed to the post I quoted.
 

ElkFever2

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the answer to stopping some of these doesn't lie in adjusting firearms policy, but in finding ways to identify people who pose a threat, and getting them the help they need.
The current proposals floated by Trump and many other conservatives center on characterizing the gun violence problem as a mental health crisis. True, there is a mental health crisis in America, but even if you could magically cure all mental illness in America overnight, it would hardly make a dent in mass shootings. https://time.com/5645747/gun-violence-mental-illness/ pbs.org/newshour/show/why-addressing-mental-illness-isnt-enough-to-reduce-gun-violence A large portion of people who commit these mass shootings don't view themselves as being in need of help. And in many cases, there is not any kind of practical help they could receive. I'm talking about ideological killers who calmly amass ammo and weapons, then calmly go out and mow down crowds of people. Racists, nativists, far-left or far-right idealists, persons desiring infamy, and people absent of empathy. Most people fitting any of these categories quietly live their lives and bother no one. What sort of intervention or help is there for worldviews or personalities that make one prone to carry out a mass shooting? As impractical as it may sound to get rid of or highly restrict semi-auto weapons, it is even more impractical to think that we as a society can somehow read the signs and intervene using some type of efficient algorithm.
 

dirtclod Az.

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Shut it down or I will call Europe and she will open a can of whoopass on all you
"smart Guys" arguing over nothing you have any say over or can control at all!!!
You don't want Grand ma,ma all over your Azz.She will call you out by name and
shame you mercilessley. dirtclod Az. :cool:
 

ElkFever2

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One of my biggest concerns about the whole gun rights / gun control debate is that hunters get swept up in "bad" column and we are slowly losing the ability to hunt and travel with guns responsibly. I see one of two approaches to ensure the future of a hunting heritage in our future: band together and oppose nearly all gun control measures to prevent further erosion of our 2nd amendment rights, or work together with non-hunters/non-gun owners to come up with solutions that reduce gun violence while at the same time protecting our recreational tools. There are risks and rewards to either approach. I'd much rather hash out these ideas on a forum like this before investing any time, capital, or voting power in the real world.
 

RockinU

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Texas
The current proposals floated by Trump and many other conservatives center on characterizing the gun violence problem as a mental health crisis. True, there is a mental health crisis in America, but even if you could magically cure all mental illness in America overnight, it would hardly make a dent in mass shootings. https://time.com/5645747/gun-violence-mental-illness/ pbs.org/newshour/show/why-addressing-mental-illness-isnt-enough-to-reduce-gun-violence A large portion of people who commit these mass shootings don't view themselves as being in need of help. And in many cases, there is not any kind of practical help they could receive. I'm talking about ideological killers who calmly amass ammo and weapons, then calmly go out and mow down crowds of people. Racists, nativists, far-left or far-right idealists, persons desiring infamy, and people absent of empathy. Most people fitting any of these categories quietly live their lives and bother no one. What sort of intervention or help is there for worldviews or personalities that make one prone to carry out a mass shooting? As impractical as it may sound to get rid of or highly restrict semi-auto weapons, it is even more impractical to think that we as a society can somehow read the signs and intervene using some type of efficient algorithm.
I honestly don't believe that we can stop all of these killers, I wish it were different, but it's not. But in several instances, there were signs, there were chances missed, there were breakdowns in the system. I know there's not perfect solution, I know there is no way to identify every potential shooter before they tip over the edge, but we need to at least address the holes that we can. As I've said, I believe in this thread, if I thought for one minute that giving up AR-15's would solve this, I'd give mine up, I just don't see it.
 

RockinU

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One of my biggest concerns about the whole gun rights / gun control debate is that hunters get swept up in "bad" column and we are slowly losing the ability to hunt and travel with guns responsibly. I see one of two approaches to ensure the future of a hunting heritage in our future: band together and oppose nearly all gun control measures to prevent further erosion of our 2nd amendment rights, or work together with non-hunters/non-gun owners to come up with solutions that reduce gun violence while at the same time protecting our recreational tools. There are risks and rewards to either approach. I'd much rather hash out these ideas on a forum like this before investing any time, capital, or voting power in the real world.
I agree. The reason solutions aren't any closer than they were 10 years ago is because instead of working together to find solutions, the 2 sides stand with their respective group bashing "the others" with tired talking points, and neither listening to the other.

I will have to disagree with the recreational tools part, whatever solutions are reached, and as tired as many are of hearing it, the 2nd isn't about hunting rifles, it's about a right to defend oneself, and that's a real line, and I can't see what it takes to change that line becoming a reality any time soon.
 

dirtclod Az.

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You guys are not helping
anything by arguing amongst each other.F-ing morons.
Wake up and smell the bed stains! 15 pages of Bull.Go back and read every
page! Not one problem has been resolved ,you are going in circles!!!!
Go Back And Read Your Comments!!!Nothing is happening.Over and Over,
Same thing.(NOTHING) :cool:
 

RockinU

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Messages
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Texas
You guys are not helping
anything by arguing amongst each other.F-ing morons.
Wake up and smell the bed stains! 15 pages of Bull.Go back and read every
page! Not one problem has been resolved ,you are going in circles!!!!
Go Back And Read Your Comments!!!Nothing is happening.Over and Over,
Same thing.(NOTHING) :cool:
Dirt, I always enjoy your posts...but I'm not arguing, or at least I'm not trying to. This is a discussion that I feel is important, one that needs to be had, I know some react poorly to hearing opinions that differ from their own, but I don't just want to hear from people who agree with me, I need to hear those who see this polar opposite from me. I want to understand how so many intelligent people arrive at such different opinions. I want to understand what has led to each turn in their path.

I have no interest in forcing my views on anyone else, I just try listen critically, and then present my views as respectfully, and clearly as I can. I don't mean to be repetitive, or harp on things that have already been said, and for that I apologize.
 

dirtclod Az.

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Dirt, I always enjoy your posts...but I'm not arguing, or at least I'm not trying to. This is a discussion that I feel is important, one that needs to be had, I know some react poorly to hearing opinions that differ from their own, but I don't just want to hear from people who agree with me, I need to hear those who see this polar opposite from me. I want to understand how so many intelligent people arrive at such different opinions. I want to understand what has led to each turn in their path.

I have no interest in forcing my views on anyone else, I just try listen critically, and then present my views as respectfully, and clearly as I can. I don't mean to be repetitive, or harp on things that have already been said, and for that I apologize.
Thanks for your response.Just was in touch with a friend who said:it's(the Thread)
is about to burn itself out.Lets hope so. :cool:
 

antelopedundee

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You guys are not helping
anything by arguing amongst each other.F-ing morons.
Wake up and smell the bed stains! 15 pages of Bull.Go back and read every
page! Not one problem has been resolved ,you are going in circles!!!!
Go Back And Read Your Comments!!!Nothing is happening.Over and Over,
Same thing.(NOTHING) :cool:
So if YOU had the power to change things what would YOU DO?
 

VikingsGuy

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Aug 2, 2017
Messages
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Twin Cities
You guys are not helping
anything by arguing amongst each other.F-ing morons.
Wake up and smell the bed stains! 15 pages of Bull.Go back and read every
page! Not one problem has been resolved ,you are going in circles!!!!
Go Back And Read Your Comments!!!Nothing is happening.Over and Over,
Same thing.(NOTHING) :cool:
If the discussion does not devolve into name calling, why do you care? You don't have to read it. If others want to discuss, then let them. 99.999999% of discussions don't result in dramatic social change, does that mean we should do nothing but post hunting selfies. We haven't changed corner crossing or NR tag frustrations or standing for the flag, or DIY vs guided hunting, or western states hunting vs. African trophy hunting, or . . . . . . or . . . . If a thread bores you ignore it - frankly, your post is probably the most useless of the whole thread.
 

justdada

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Messages
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Colorado
Perhaps a bit of a different direction than most of the comments above, but with regard to the apparent growth in mental health disorders, do any of you give credence to the isolation that electronics and social media have on young people today?
Societal roles/norms and demographic changes surely have some influence as well
Any chance one of our hunt talk communitee is a tenured high school guidance counselor? I'd be interested in their opinion on the subject...
 

RockinU

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Messages
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Texas
Perhaps a bit of a different direction than most of the comments above, but with regard to the apparent growth in mental health disorders, do any of you give credence to the isolation that electronics and social media have on young people today?
Societal roles/norms and demographic changes surely have some influence as well
Any chance one of our hunt talk communitee is a tenured high school guidance counselor? I'd be interested in their opinion on the subject...
After being married to a teacher for 20 years, I can tell you that opinions in that field are as varied as they can get.

I wonder if some of the problems we see stem from the fact that we never let our children learn to cope. When they never have to learn to deal with rejection because everyone gets to play or deal with losing or disappointment because everyone gets the same trophy. If they can't sit still and pay attention, we medicate them. Everyone is always tip toeing around so nobody has to deal with hurt feelings. Heck I know of a school program that is exploring doing away with grades so that children won't have to feel bad or inadequate because they didn't make as good a grade as another kid. When you go through your entire childhood sheltered from the challenges of life, how can you ever learn to rise and deal with them as an adult? We seem to be fogetting that failure is as important to learning as success. I just wonder if our well intentioned society is cultivating people predisposed to snap.
 
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