Anybody use the Grizzlystik 650g arrow and broadhead setup?

[Mighty Mouse]

What do you know about cutthroats?

I've been shooting 150 gr right bevel Cutthroats (original version, not S7 steel version) for the past couple years. They fly well for me and have performed well on the small sample of animals I've shot with them (cow elk with a compound and whitetail doe with a recurve).

 

[Stocker]

This is kind of a throwaway post in the sense that I’m not an archery expert. I’ve ran super heavy and super light setups and have had success with both and problems with both. I’m a hyper unfocused person though so when I go down those rabbit holes I end up obsessing and worrying about all the little details and sometime miss the big picture. Right now I shoot s really average setup that I’m 100% confident in shooting from 10-50 yards. That doesn’t mean it’s the “perfect” setup. But it is for me and my bow, I think that’s about all a guy can do.


This coming from a chronic over-thinker most likely with undiagnosed ADHD telling you to not over think this.

 

[Fire_9]

Yes and no. I switched from the stainless to the carbon montecs so that I could sharpen them easier.

I would say a good portion of your problem is here. You’re asking for problems if you walk in the woods with a dull broadhead. I really think for most guys shooting a 70# compound, 450-500 grains is a really good arrow weight to shoot for. Good balance between weight and trajectory. Ive shot a 550 grain arrow for quite a while but I’m going to drop it down to around 500 this year.

 

[Browning55]

Are you shooting a recurve or compound? This whole high foc or 650 grain arrow is a bunch of bs in my opinion when applied to the common archer using modern equipment. I am not trying to say Ashby Method has no merit but let’s unpack this a bit. Most of his game animals were in Africa using a recure bow from my understanding.

When it comes to archery here is my two cents. First off the comments and people saying just do this or use this tip because it works for me is a huge mistake. Many times I meet hunters in camp who I have guided or folks at the archery ranges and they have no clue how their equipment preforms for their situation. Its all anecdotal like my buddy said if i shot a 400 gr arrow with this broadhead I would be fine because he has killed an elk before.... I use these statements to offer up some perspective and also give people who read this an approach to find their own set up that works for them and demonstrate how I approach my archery set up. I will also add some rebuttal's to the question at hand here regarding the ultra heavy arrow questions... as well as FOC.

as far as my set up goes I will list it here for reference.

New set up
Hoyt rx7 75# limbs 27.5" draw
472 Grain arrow (estimated foc 17%, I shoot a victory rip with 4 fletched aae max stealth vane and a wrap, insert is an easton 75gr half out)
Current speed is 281 FPS

Since this is an elk forum, I will speak in context of elk. If we were hunting in Africa or strictly antelope/whitetail I would also say your approach might be a little different. Another point to note is I'm also speaking about the average male. I am on the short side when it comes to draw length so I have to take into account the fact that I don't get the most efficiency out of a compound. My options are limited... I cant just shoot a 5550gr arrow and expect it to preform as well as someone with a 30" draw who may have said it works for them... Women and kids etc also have to use a slightly different approach. What this all boils down to is finding that happy balance between speed and weight of an arrow. When balancing these two we need to understand that there is a law of diminishing returns when we add too much weight or we increase speed by decreasing weight. The end goal here is maximizing your Kinetic Energy and Momentum of your arrow. By doing this you ensuring your arrow will ethically kill an elk and achieve maximum penetration. When building my arrow/bow set up it all starts here. Things like FOC, broadhead choice etc will all come later. At this stage I am determining my optimal performance. I encourage you to play around with this easy tool, its not perfect but will help you understand the balance of speed and weight. ( note; as a short draw I have had to overcome this with the use of a turbo cam in past or in my current set up a 75# limb)

Kinetic Energy and Momentum Calculator | Realtree Camo

This Realtree calculator calculates your kinetic energy and momentum for you.

www.realtree.com

Here is the estimate on my set up..

Kinetic Energy: 83.92 FOOT-POUNDS

Momentum: 0.593 SLUGS

I have found this to be my sweet spot given my draw length and the speeds I could realistically achieve with my draw length. Sure I could improve this with a 500gr arrow going 300fps but that is just not going to happen for me at 27.5" draw. On the other hand when I play around with my set ups given my draw length I find that increasing or decreasing arrow weight actually decreases my KE and Momentum. In my tests I tried a 572gr arrow and my speed actually dropped all the way down to 248fps. Same goes with trying to achieve 300fps. I would have to drop my arrow weight all the way down to about 412gr. The performance was below for the heavier set up

Kinetic Energy: 78.1 FOOT-POUNDS

Momentum: 0.63 SLUGS

so in this case we can see I gained slight improvement in momentum but also lost KE. For me this does not justify going to an ultra heavy set up. Furthermore we must take these considerations a step forward. Just evaluating on these numbers wont suffice. Before I talk about shootability I will also briefly mention we should discuss KE and Momentum at extended ranges. I use the Archers Advantage program with my sight tapes and downrange performance calculations. talking in context with elk... I like to be above 55ftlbs of KE when discussing lethality. When looking at these and applying a range to them my current set up ; I am "lethal" out to an extended range of 95 yards. Would I take that shot, no but It is good to know that inside 50 yards I have plenty of retained energy. Using an ultra heavy arrow, I found that I dumped speed at an alarming rate. When looking at a range outside 40 yards my KE dropped so fast that I would not consider a shot beyond 40 with a 600gr plus arrow. So my point here is know your set up and know your effective ranges.

Now lets talk about shootability. I love being in that 270-280 range fps. To me it allows a lot of flexibility to the shooter. One my trajectory is such that I can shoot different yardages and have a degree of error. Lets say the elk is at 35 and I shoot my 30 pin... I am still lethal. I find with ultra heavy arrows one mistake in a range could cost you an animal with a complete miss or a wound. two years ago I ranged a cow at 35 yards but she moved off a bit during my shot sequence. I ended up shooting her at 47 yards. Because of my speed my arrow was still lethal based on me shooting my 40 pin. I shoot a lot of 3D here in Colorado and I love practicing longer shots, so for me I would argue having and arrow with a flatter trajectory and good energy is the perfect balance.

In terms of arrow build I flirt on the high FOC side at 17% along with a 4 fletch set up. I do this because I am shooting an Iron Will s125. For me I love this broadhead and have had great performance. Using the higher FOC and 4 fletch I do believe it controls my broadhead better but I must add i still debate to myself is it the FOC/fletching combo or just a placebo effect that I shoot better. Who knows but I do know my groups are better and my arrow durability has been good with the half out. Another thing to note is I do notice some flight issues due to the FOC at longer ranges. Couple that with my 4 fletch the arrow past 70 yards doesn't want to fly according to my sight tape. Inside 70 my 281fps sight tape is dead on but after 70 my arrow corresponds to a 279fps better. I attribute this to parachuting effect and the FOC causing arrow to dive a little.

I know this was extremely long so I will wrap up my thoughts. This is how I approach it and it is just my opinion. There are plenty of other ways that work too. I like the blend of speed, shootability and leathality. With an ultra heavy arrow or FOC i do no think you can achieve all these. In terms of my set up I also recognize its a bit over kill. I like this because I will take this same set up on my moose hunt in 2023 to Alberta and in addition, if i do mess up on a shot I have first hand experience in what my arrow can do. All in all, i encourage you to play with your set up and find what works for you and what you like to shoot. I think i have taken a few of the principles form the ashby method and applied them to a more modern approach balancing speed and arrow weight.

 

[Browning55]

What do you know about cutthroats?

cutthroats are phenomenal broadhead. Designed and developed by an archery shop just down the street from me called Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear. they are a traditional archery focused shop but also have one hell of a staff for all things archery. I dont personally shoot them but I can attest to seeing them do great things on animals and fly true when shot with a proper set up and well tuned bow.

 

[Irrelevant]

I appreciate anyone so far for taking the time to provide their opinions. I'm definitely not set on anything yet, still enjoying reading more and trying to learn more.

If you like math and physicals, I recommends giving some of Ashby's material a read.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5d0443b188b6c900011e0ccc/t/5d3c79460fc6b800013bd137/1564244295094/2005_Momentum_Kinetic_Energy_and_Arrow_Penetration.pdf

 

[TrumpkinTheDwarf]

I beg you... implore you... beseech you... to ignore the heavy arrow/FOC crap, and focus on the highest priority issue. One that even Ashby lists... perfect arrow flight. Get your bow tuned right, and let the FOC/arrow weight fall where it may.

This is coming from a trad guy who would confidently shoot a 500 grain arrow, at 180 fps to hunt elk. And I'd use a razor sharp iron will to tip the business end. Penetration is robbed by many things, but the biggest one is an arrow that isn't flying straight. And yes, I've killed a big bull elk with a stick bow, so I'm not in the sample size zero category of internet expert .

 

[Irrelevant]

I beg you... implore you... beseech you... to ignore the heavy arrow/FOC crap, and focus on the highest priority issue.

Why does the focus have to be on one or the other and not both?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

The end goal here is maximizing your Kinetic Energy and Momentum of your arrow.

I agree with most of your post, especially on the benefit of a lighter/faster arrow in compensating for range estimation error (which often seems to be ignored by the advocates of ultra heavy arrows). However, I would disagree that the goal should be to maximize KE and momentum. Seeking to maximize those parameters will lead you to a very heavy arrow with a very limited practical range. For most bows (every one I've ever tested), both KE and momentum will increase with increasing arrow weight. It's curious that your testing showed the opposite KE trend (82.8 ft-lbs @ 472 gr vs. 78.1 ft-lbs @ 572 gr), but most guys will find that their KE continues increasing slightly as their arrow gets heavier. Advocates of ultra heavy arrows sometimes argue their point by stating that increasing arrow weight will increase KE, which is (generally) true but ignores the detrimental effect on trajectory.

For reference, below is a sample of KE vs. arrow weight data showing a positive correlation between the two.

Personally collected data with Mathews Heli-m at 60#:


Data from THP/RF video on YouTube:

 

[TrumpkinTheDwarf]

Well, we probably need to level set some things, cause I'm a trad guy. I wouldn't call 15% a high FOC.

So if you're thinking less than 20% FOC I'm not gonna raise any more objections. However, if that's not the case:

Why does the focus have to be on one or the other and not both?

You already said you can't get an arrow to fly right. Why complicate matters with something that makes for harder tuning? A decent amount of FOC is fine, but you're gonna find that once you step up too high your tuning is gonna get kinda funny. I'm speaking from experience with trad, but compounds will see some of the same issues. I never could get rid of nock high arrow flight over a certain FOC. Arrow flight wasn't as good either, especially in windy conditions. Think arrows hitting the target at a 45 degree angle... Olympic archers never shoot high FOC. If it were more accurate, or cut wind better, they would.

Also, to get crazy high FOC you will inevitably end up with a 600+ grain arrow. That's just giving away flatter trajectory for a potential increase in bone splitting performance.

 

[MT Bound]

I worry about that. But what about under thinking it? At what point due the results warrant additional analysis.

If I'd have seen my own post 7 years ago, I would have offered a very similar response to yours, but with a now larger body of evidence I can't ignore that what I have isn't working well enough for me.

True, if what you have isn't working then yes I can see tweaking some things and playing around with your setup.

I've been using the same setup for about 14 years and am satisfied with the results that's why I haven't changed: around 420 grains total weight, ~13-15% FOC w/150 up front. When I think about the # of years I've been bowhunting & trials and errors over those years....well it proves I'm approaching the "old man" label...

I plan to experiment a little this year, I love the performance of 2 blade broadheads with 50 grain inserts up front, but that's my experience. Part of the fun is figuring out what works for you and your bow.

 

[Browning55]

I agree with most of your post, especially on the benefit of a lighter/faster arrow in compensating for range estimation error (which often seems to be ignored by the advocates of ultra heavy arrows). However, I would disagree that the goal should be to maximize KE and momentum. Seeking to maximize those parameters will lead you to a very heavy arrow with a very limited practical range. For most bows (every one I've ever tested), both KE and momentum will increase with increasing arrow weight. It's curious that your testing showed the opposite KE trend (82.8 ft-lbs @ 472 gr vs. 78.1 ft-lbs @ 572 gr), but most guys will find that their KE continues increasing slightly as their arrow gets heavier. Advocates of ultra heavy arrows sometimes argue their point by stating that increasing arrow weight will increase KE, which is (generally) true but ignores the detrimental effect on trajectory.

For reference, below is a sample of KE vs. arrow weight data showing a positive correlation between the two.

Personally collected data with Mathews Heli-m at 60#:
View attachment 216360

Data from THP/RF video on YouTube:
View attachment 216361

i should probably worded that as retaining the highest level of KE/Momentum while also keeping my speed in that 275-280 range. I think being a 27.5" draw is where it makes it hard on me and I have a small window to play with the balance of arrow weight and speed. If i were chasing speeds of 300+ for instance, i would have to lighten my arrow so much that I would fall out of my acceptable "energy" ranges. Conversely if I started adding arrow weight at some point I would actually lose energy because the loss in speed would offset any gain in arrow weight with respects to KE and Momentum. In my personal situation... I could go to say 550gr or even 575 etc and still have my acceptable "energy" but what I give up was speeds sub 265fps aprox and from a shooting standpoint I just prefer the trajectory and my ability to snap shoot distances at a speed around 275-280


in terms of you referencing how i saw a reduction in energy as alluded to, its because the greater reduction in speed offset the increase in arrow weight. I think of it on a bellcurve, my bell curve is not as wide as say someone with a 29-30" draw who is getting max efficiency out of their cams and increasing their arrow weight isn't going to affect them much. In my set up if someone with a 29" draw shot the same bow etc they would see speeds in excess of 300fp and would have more room to tinker with weight while not feeling he effects of speed loss like i do

 

[Fire_9]

I agree with most of your post, especially on the benefit of a lighter/faster arrow in compensating for range estimation error (which often seems to be ignored by the advocates of ultra heavy arrows). However, I would disagree that the goal should be to maximize KE and momentum. Seeking to maximize those parameters will lead you to a very heavy arrow with a very limited practical range. For most bows (every one I've ever tested), both KE and momentum will increase with increasing arrow weight. It's curious that your testing showed the opposite KE trend (82.8 ft-lbs @ 472 gr vs. 78.1 ft-lbs @ 572 gr), but most guys will find that their KE continues increasing slightly as their arrow gets heavier. Advocates of ultra heavy arrows sometimes argue their point by stating that increasing arrow weight will increase KE, which is (generally) true but ignores the detrimental effect on trajectory.

For reference, below is a sample of KE vs. arrow weight data showing a positive correlation between the two.

Personally collected data with Mathews Heli-m at 60#:
View attachment 216360

Data from THP/RF video on YouTube:
View attachment 216361

You have to remember that velocity is squared in the energy formula so if a bow slows significantly due to a heavy arrow, ke will decrease. Momentum should continue to go up though

A lot of us have already been down the heavy arrow path and have come back to a more sensible setup. Thumpkin brings up a very good point that 650 grains is pretty far down Ashby’s list and yet it gets the most attention. Perfect arrow flight and good components are way higher up the list and everyone skips right past those. 650 grains is for breaching heavy bone. If you’re so worried about 650 grains, doing shoot something in the shoulder knuckle, problem solved. A finely tuned 450-500 grain arrow, with strong components, and a sharp broadhead will kill anything in north America coming out of a stick bow. Shooting that same setup out of your compound will only make it easier.

 

[Irrelevant]

A lot of us have already been down the heavy arrow path and have come back to a more sensible setup. Thumpkin brings up a very good point that 650 grains is pretty far down Ashby’s list and yet it gets the most attention. Perfect arrow flight and good components are way higher up the list and everyone skips right past those.

Just so we're all on the same page, the list is:
1. Structural integrity of the arrow
2. Arrow flight
3. FOC
4. Mechanical advantage of the broadhead
5. Shaft diameter
6. Arrow mass
7. blade finish
8. shaft profile (parallel vs tapered)
9. broadhead/arrow silhouette
10. Type of edge bevel
11. Tip design
12. Arrow mass above the bone threshold (650 gr)

650 grains is for breaching heavy bone. If you’re so worried about 650 grains, doing shoot something in the shoulder knuckle, problem solved.

Errors happen. You can kill a deer with all kinds of projectiles if you have perfect placement, but imperfect placement is going to have to get factored into my design.

 

[ImBillT]

I’ve never shot my bow at an animal, but want to someday.

It took me a few listens to get a handle on everything Ashby said, but from a physics standpoint almost everything he said was 100% correct. I’ve listened to him interview on quite a few different podcasts and just about every time a host disagrees with Ashby, the host doesn’t actually understand either what Ashby is saying, or the physics of the situation he is describing.

Ashby didn’t talk much about it, but if you’re going to do math on arrow speed and mass, ignore kinetic energy. Momentum is what you should be looking at.

FOC seems to get the most attention when I see or hear discussion about Ashby, but he very plainly places structural integrity and perfect arrow flight above FOC.

I always seem to see complaints that high FOC ruins arrow flight, but from everything I’ve read about arrow tuning I don’t see any reason that high FOC should make tuning any more difficult as long as you can find the appropriate components. Obviously you can’t just take a tuned arrow, remove a 125gr broadhead, install a 300gr broadhead and be good to go. Of course that’s not going to work well if that’s the path you take to a high FOC.

Although Ashby addresses it repeatedly, I still hear people saying that they raised their FOC to 17% or 19% and didn’t see any difference, despite the fact that he said there is no measurable benefit from raising FOC until you reach at least 19% and even then the benefit is slight. From my understanding, if you aren’t willing to build an arrow with an FOC WELL ABOVE 19%, I don’t see any reason to bother worrying about it.

Ashby puts the heavy bone threshold of 650gr very low on his list of importance unless you hit heavy bone, yet just like FOC, it gets talked about a lot as though he’s wrong and 650gr arrows aren’t important. He really didn’t say they were all that important. His explanation of the heavy bone threshold also seems to be constantly misunderstood. He doesn’t say that you can’t penetrate bone unless your arrow is 650gr, nor does he say that as long as your arrow is 650gr or heavier, that suddenly you can penetrate heavy bones. He says that was an inflection point where the rate of heavy bone penetration increased significantly. Setups that don’t penetrate bone well, did so a lot better over 650gr, but still poorly overall, and setups that penetrate heavy bone really well, did so below 650gr, but did even better above 650 grains. He also pretty much said that for penetrating heavy bone, 750gr would be even better than 650gr. For elk or moose, I’d definitely consider building a setup that was good against heavy bone, but that’s just me.

The argument that making a good arrow following some, most, or all of Ashby’s recommendations doesn’t apply to compound bows is flawed and based on not understanding physics.

By all means, if you feel the need to maintain a flat trajectory to improve your ability to hit the vitals, keep your arrow weight low enough to give you the trajectory you feel you need. It’s not like following the rest of Ashby’s advice is going to give you a poor setup.

I love listening to Aaron on KifaruCast, but it’s painful to listen to him with Ashby. He just didn’t understand a lot of what Ashby was saying.

 

[Fire_9]

Just so we're all on the same page, the list is:
1. Structural integrity of the arrow
2. Arrow flight
3. FOC
4. Mechanical advantage of the broadhead
5. Shaft diameter
6. Arrow mass
7. blade finish
8. shaft profile (parallel vs tapered)
9. broadhead/arrow silhouette
10. Type of edge bevel
11. Tip design
12. Arrow mass above the bone threshold (650 gr)

Errors happen. You can kill a deer with all kinds of projectiles if you have perfect placement, but imperfect placement is going to have to get factored into my design.

I agree and it’s built into mine as well but there’s a happy medium. If you shoot 20 yards and in, knock yourself out and shoot a 1000 grain arrow. But if you want to stretch it out to 40, 50, or 60+. There’s a lot to be said for a moderately weighted arrow and reasonable. Are you more likely to shank a shot or misjudge yardage by 5 yards? It was my own fault but large pin gaps cost me a bull in ‘15. There’s a lot of other people that have info contradicting Ashbys stuff as well. His writings aren‘t gospel….

Whats your bow setup?

 

[Irrelevant]

It was my own fault but large pin gaps cost me a bull in ‘15.

And I've lost one for certain to poor penetration, where I just missed the mark and drilled the shoulder bone somewhere near the base of the blade

There’s a lot of other people that have info contradicting Ashbys stuff as well. His writings aren‘t gospel….

Care to share? I'd love to read more

Whats your bow setup?

Bowtech carbon night 70# draw 29.5" length

 

[Irrelevant]

I’ve never shot my bow at an animal, but want to someday.

It took me a few listens to get a handle on everything Ashby said, but from a physics standpoint almost everything he said was 100% correct. I’ve listened to him interview on quite a few different podcasts and just about every time a host disagrees with Ashby, the host doesn’t actually understand either what Ashby is saying, or the physics of the situation he is describing.

Ashby didn’t talk much about it, but if you’re going to do math on arrow speed and mass, ignore kinetic energy. Momentum is what you should be looking at.

FOC seems to get the most attention when I see or hear discussion about Ashby, but he very plainly places structural integrity and perfect arrow flight above FOC.

I always seem to see complaints that high FOC ruins arrow flight, but from everything I’ve read about arrow tuning I don’t see any reason that high FOC should make tuning any more difficult as long as you can find the appropriate components. Obviously you can’t just take a tuned arrow, remove a 125gr broadhead, install a 300gr broadhead and be good to go. Of course that’s not going to work well if that’s the path you take to a high FOC.

Although Ashby addresses it repeatedly, I still hear people saying that they raised their FOC to 17% or 19% and didn’t see any difference, despite the fact that he said there is no measurable benefit from raising FOC until you reach at least 19% and even then the benefit is slight. From my understanding, if you aren’t willing to build an arrow with an FOC WELL ABOVE 19%, I don’t see any reason to bother worrying about it.

Ashby puts the heavy bone threshold of 650gr very low on his list of importance unless you hit heavy bone, yet just like FOC, it gets talked about a lot as though he’s wrong and 650gr arrows aren’t important. He really didn’t say they were all that important. His explanation of the heavy bone threshold also seems to be constantly misunderstood. He doesn’t say that you can’t penetrate bone unless your arrow is 650gr, nor does he say that as long as your arrow is 650gr or heavier, that suddenly you can penetrate heavy bones. He says that was an inflection point where the rate of heavy bone penetration increased significantly. Setups that don’t penetrate bone well, did so a lot better over 650gr, but still poorly overall, and setups that penetrate heavy bone really well, did so below 650gr, but did even better above 650 grains. He also pretty much said that for penetrating heavy bone, 750gr would be even better than 650gr. For elk or moose, I’d definitely consider building a setup that was good against heavy bone, but that’s just me.

The argument that making a good arrow following some, most, or all of Ashby’s recommendations doesn’t apply to compound bows is flawed and based on not understanding physics.

By all means, if you feel the need to maintain a flat trajectory to improve your ability to hit the vitals, keep your arrow weight low enough to give you the trajectory you feel you need. It’s not like following the rest of Ashby’s advice is going to give you a poor setup.

I love listening to Aaron on KifaruCast, but it’s painful to listen to him with Ashby. He just didn’t understand a lot of what Ashby was saying.

Ashby's work and words resonated well with me because I love the clarity that physics provides to complicated systems. I can't listen to Aaron, I did for a time, but I just can't, his constant humble-brag speech is nails on the chalk board to my ears.

Thanks for the input

 

[mottlet]

Man, when I think about the stuff I killed when I first started with arrows that had to have been flying practically sideways, I say a little prayer and ask forgiveness.

I went down the Ranch Fairy/Ashby rabbit hole a couple years ago, and ended up coming partway back up to the surface for air. Where I settled was about a hundred grains heavier than where I was, so now I'm at about 522 grains and a shade north of 20% FOC. Shooting 65 lbs with a 28.5" draw, so I'm not zipping darts out to 40, but I'm less concerned about speed than just about anything. More speed equals more drag anyway. At the end of the day, I was able to bump my spine from 350 to 300 (not a particularly heavy arrow...BE Carnivore) and bump my point weight up to 200 gr. I was already shooting 50 gr. brass inserts.

But the main thing I took out of it all was tuning, which nobody wants to hear because it's boring in the best case scenario and varying levels of pull out your hair frustrating with each step beyond that best case. It's easiest if you can bare shaft through paper because once you've got a bullet hole there, broadhead tuning becomes pretty easy, in my experience. BUT WHEW, getting that perfect hole with a bare shaft has really made me question my sanity a time or two. I'm lucky that I've got a buddy with a press and we can fiddle around with lots of tiny adjustments to cams, cable twists, etc etc. We've learned to walk away from it when we've got a bow that just won't act right. Ponder really important stuff like what tags to put in for, why outboards never die on calm sunny days, or who is the best shot on teal with the last shell in the magazine specifically, and then go back to it fresh. Usually helps.

I'm shooting Cutthroat 200s, right bevel. If you keep them sharp, they are a penetrating machine. Do not expect to keep them sharp without at least a bit of zeal for sitting down with them more frequently than you'd probably like to. Pour a bourbon, turn on Randy's podcast, and take your time with em...or maybe I just suck at it so it takes me longer. But I bowhunt eastern suburbs a lot and so arrows come in and out of the quiver a lot. But my setup has taken down everything from whitetail fawns to bull elk. I'm still perfectly capable of screwing it up, but it's been a pretty good all around rig.

 

[Irrelevant]

Man, when I think about the stuff I killed when I first started with arrows that had to have been flying practically sideways, I say a little prayer and ask forgiveness.

I went down the Ranch Fairy/Ashby rabbit hole a couple years ago, and ended up coming partway back up to the surface for air. Where I settled was about a hundred grains heavier than where I was, so now I'm at about 522 grains and a shade north of 20% FOC. Shooting 65 lbs with a 28.5" draw, so I'm not zipping darts out to 40, but I'm less concerned about speed than just about anything. More speed equals more drag anyway. At the end of the day, I was able to bump my spine from 350 to 300 (not a particularly heavy arrow...BE Carnivore) and bump my point weight up to 200 gr. I was already shooting 50 gr. brass inserts.

But the main thing I took out of it all was tuning, which nobody wants to hear because it's boring in the best case scenario and varying levels of pull out your hair frustrating with each step beyond that best case. It's easiest if you can bare shaft through paper because once you've got a bullet hole there, broadhead tuning becomes pretty easy, in my experience. BUT WHEW, getting that perfect hole with a bare shaft has really made me question my sanity a time or two. I'm lucky that I've got a buddy with a press and we can fiddle around with lots of tiny adjustments to cams, cable twists, etc etc. We've learned to walk away from it when we've got a bow that just won't act right. Ponder really important stuff like what tags to put in for, why outboards never die on calm sunny days, or who is the best shot on teal with the last shell in the magazine specifically, and then go back to it fresh. Usually helps.

I'm shooting Cutthroat 200s, right bevel. If you keep them sharp, they are a penetrating machine. Do not expect to keep them sharp without at least a bit of zeal for sitting down with them more frequently than you'd probably like to. Pour a bourbon, turn on Randy's podcast, and take your time with em...or maybe I just suck at it so it takes me longer. But I bowhunt eastern suburbs a lot and so arrows come in and out of the quiver a lot. But my setup has taken down everything from whitetail fawns to bull elk. I'm still perfectly capable of screwing it up, but it's been a pretty good all around rig.

I'm a real big fan of your post there.