Accuracy - Is this normal?

[longtail55]

I’m having some serious OCD on if my rifles are shooting average accuracy and was just hoping for some insight before I do something stupid and blow all my money on a different gun.
Last night I shot both my 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5 prc and my best group size for both guns was sub moa at 3/4” but then I also shot groups that were 2” or a little more. Average group sizes for my creedmoor was 1.3” and the prc was 1.7”
Is this normal??
I’m shooting a factory gun with factory ammo. They both have quality muzzle brakes but other than that stock.
Am I getting too caught up with all the online talk of “my gun shoots sub moa all day long”. ?

 

[Salmonchaser]

Awful lot of variables left to the imagination. If you’re using the same lot of ammo, that will help, best group early or late in the process? Shooting off bipod or bags? Focus on the crosshairs or target?
One of the things I used to do with new shooters on our team is have them position the rifle, typically prone off a bipod, they would be indexed, I would cover their control hand with mine and I would pull the trigger. Bad habits like peaking, not following through or anticipating recoil show up real quick.
Anyway, a little more information about what you’re doing, how your set up will help.

 

[Kauaihunter]

Too many variables to get an answer, need detailed info. One example, did you try different brands and bullet weights to see what ammo each prefers? Couple months ago I tried 8 different boxes to find the best one for a new .270.

Sub moa all day long? I wonder how many shoot all day long? My old 1968 Remington 700 7mag could do a best of about 1.5” at 100 yards, maybe, slightly less. All factory and factory ammo. Hunted with it for many years, Blacktail and Axis deer primarily. While it never did do the itty bitty groups, it would consistently put the group where it should be, centered over the bullseye. My son in law uses it now and he shot an Axis buck at 240 yards this past April. I had no issue taking deer out to 300 yards with it but majority of my shots were 200 and under. It did what I needed it to do.

 

[brockel]

I’m assuming 3 shot groups? Shoot 10 shot or 20 shot and that will give you a better idea on what your rifle is capable. Your smallest and biggest 3 shot groups will probably all fit within the 10 shot total group. The 10 shot or more just shows what your rifles cone of fire is

 

[longtail55]

You’re not helping with my ocd…. Was just hoping for a yes or no answer

Same lot ammo. Shooting off a bench with bags. Best group with the prc was my first group. Best with the creedmoor was my second. 3 shot groups. I have tried quite a bit of different ammo all the quality stuff and what I was using is the best I have found so far. Conditions were pretty decent temp in the 70’s and it was a little breezy but not real windy

 

[Kauaihunter]

Yes

 

[Fire_9]

Am I getting too caught up with all the online talk of “my gun shoots sub moa all day long”. ?

Yes you are

 

[antelopedundee]

How many have ever shot their rifle [all day long]? Maybe morning noon and evening. How did it shoot?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I would not be satisfied with a setup that shoots 2" 3 shot groups but that doesn't mean it would be a constraint to successfully hunting for most of us.

That said, lots of people would claim they have a 3/4" gun because it shot a 3/4" 3 shot group which is logically misleading.

Are you sure that you are a sub MOA shooter with moderately recoiling hunting weight rifles? Most people aren't.

 

[Jnasa]

I agree with Wind Gypsy. There is a difference between getting a 3/4 Mia group and being able to do it on demand.

I wouldn’t compare a lighter hunting rifle to a heavy target rifle and scope with a dedicated load developed. Even with that I find most shooters overestimate their abilities.

 

[Robert N]

I’ll also add: personal accuracy can be related to diet, health conditions, how much sleep you got that night as well as environmental conditions and more.

Give me an extra cup of coffee and I watch my groups open up by an extra inch or more.

 

[nrpate05]

In my experience, that means that your ammo is almost, but not quite right. I'd try some other factory options. Also, let the barrel cool between groups to maximize consistency. As others have said, it could be a number of things...

 

[El Jason]

People make a lot of excuses for why a gun doesn’t shoot, or a shooter doesn’t shoot. Too hot, too cold, too much coffee, not enough coffee…

First, know your own capabilities. Can you shoot a 10 shot sub MOA group? Not everyone can.

If a gun starts walking shots after few rounds, it probably has a bedding issue. If you want to shoot three shot groups, do so. But keep the same target and same POA.

Don’t clean between groups if you are.

 

[idelkslayer]

a 3 or 5 shot group isn't enough to determine the capabilities of a rifle.

With 3 or 5 shots you might shoot a great 3/4" inch group, and then your next group is also 3/4" but the point of impact appears to shift slightly, then the next group opens up to 1.2" and brackets both of the previous groups. In reality, nothing has changed, all three groups actually fit into your actual group size and actual predictable performance.

At a minimum read this blog post by Hornady and it you have time watch the videos or listen the podcast episodes on it. It might change your understanding about how to understand group sizes.

https://blog.hornady.com/for-accurate-data-sample-size-matters-b0c1d70beaba

 

[brockel]

First, know your own capabilities. Can you shoot a 10 shot sub MOA group? Not everyone can.

There are very few that can. Especially from a hunting weight rifle

 

[WapitiBob]

Quit shooting from the 100 yard youth stakes if you want to see how you and the rifle really groups; like 500-600 yards. Those internet 1/2 moa guns aren't even close to 1/2 moa.

 

[antelopedundee]

Ammo-wise what's supposed to be the same may not always be the same, esp. with metered powder chrges like you find with factory ammo. I was out this morning. Ammo was from cases fired the same number of times, same primer, charges hand weighed, pretty much same COL +/- a couple thou, yet one load seemed to be a bit high pressure-wise. Wasn't warm out and barrel cooling was ok.

 

[Bonasababy]

IMO factory gun/ammo....you are in the average area.

Most of my guns...all stock except for trigger work...tend to like a particular load better than others. Many of them shoot worse with higher speed factory ammo.

If you have been using similar bullet weights and speeds, try varying them. My 06 mountain rifle loves 150 grain Silvertips when the same thing in 180s is just average. Also try a thorough cleaning with a good copper solvent.

 

[kodiakisland]

Some days I shoot better than other days, regardless of the rifles ability.
I'm primarily a hunter and not a target shooter. I stopped shooting groups many years ago. Now I shoot steel targets in the field from field conditions. Most of my targets are 10 inches or less. I either hit or I don't. A hit would be a kill on almost any big game animal, so that's what I'm after. I'm after minute of animal in real conditions. I know for each rifle what range and conditions that is, and that's all I need to know. I don't worry over exact group size when I can consistently hit my target.
And again, some days I'm better than other days.

 

[mevertsen]

Some days I shoot better than other days, regardless of the rifles ability.
I'm primarily a hunter and not a target shooter. I stopped shooting groups many years ago. Now I shoot steel targets in the field from field conditions. Most of my targets are 10 inches or less. I either hit or I don't. A hit would be a kill on almost any big game animal, so that's what I'm after. I'm after minute of animal in real conditions. I know for each rifle what range and conditions that is, and that's all I need to know.
And again, some days I'm better than other days.

This is generally my thought. Once I have an accurate enough load, im not concerned with groups.

Be it a cardboard target with an orange dot, milk jugs, or steel, everything is basically animal chest size. Hit or miss.