6.5 CM as a hunting cartridge... why?

[Brad]

I think you're the one struggling here. Not everyone is a fan of everything. Not caring for something is not the same as being "against" something. I think you are trying to make this into a "us vs them" contest, and it simply isn't. I don't know how to explain that to you any more clearly. See what you want.

I'd like to see the photos of stuff you've slain with the 7-08 and 308 - then explain to me why those same animals couldn't as easily been taken by the 6.5 CM with less recoil.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Does this still hold true if you're setting headspace yourself and resizing your own ammo? Honest question. I don't know SAMMI specs that well.

Unless you do something out of spec your dies should be machined to the same tighter specifications. The same load is more likely to shoot sub 1 moa in different guns.
Not that you couldn't find a more accurate load that would be sub 1/2moa in a 90s custom 700 but that the same load in my Win fetherlight might be 3 moa.
Imo this is also why the Prc cartridges are seeing the "clicker" problem. Some are too tight from the factory.

 

[Bowmannate2000]

This thread is a truly fascinating look into the psyche of the off season hunter .

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I'd like to see the photos of stuff you've slain with the 7-08 and 308 - then explain to me why those same animals couldn't as easily been taken by the 6.5 CM with less recoil.

Are you suggesting the three are interchangeable?

 

[El Jason]

This thread has now morphed into a logical fallacy.

Back to entertainment value. Here is a picture of a mule deer that died from a mono out of a 6.5 CM at 410 yards.

 

[Point Creep]

Agree. The magic pixie dust..
I’m using it in my 22CM’s, and both my 6.5 SAUM’s and both 6.5 PRC’s.
I use 139’s also, getting 3060fps with my lightweight PRC that has a 20” barrel(suppressed).
I’m glad I squirreled a bunch of it away before it became almost impossible to find.

 

[sclancy27]

You seem to contradict yourself here. You say there is no free velocity, but then you say they are functionally equal but the 6.5 recoils less. I don't think we get to have it both ways.

Yes, we're picking nits, but there is a difference.

If you were looking at cars, a Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord are functionally equal, yet not equal, correct? They serve the same needs for 99% of people. 1% of people make a choice based on digging into minutia, say, the Camry has a trunk configuration that allows "XXX" whatever. Same thing.

You shoot at an animal at >300 yds with any bullet out of those guns it is dead. The difference happens when you are looking at terminal ballistics over 500 yds (or farther) or want less recoil.

 

[sclancy27]

View attachment 356792

Wow.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

This thread has now morphed into a logical fallacy.

Back to entertainment value. Here is a picture of a mule deer that died from a mono out of a 6.5 CM at 410 yards.

View attachment 356793

Nice. Which mono?

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

If you were looking at cars, a Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord are functionally equal, yet not equal, correct? They serve the same needs for 99% of people. 1% of people make a choice based on digging into minutia, say, the Camry has a trunk configuration that allows "XXX" whatever. Same thing.

You shoot at an animal at >300 yds with any bullet out of those guns it is dead. The difference happens when you are looking at terminal ballistics over 500 yds (or farther) or want less recoil.

You may be right. That said, we all know we would have a preference for one or the other, given enough test drives, and our reasons would be good for our situation but may look pointless to others.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

This thread is a truly fascinating look into the psyche of the off season hunter .

Ain't that the truth.

 

[BuzzH]

I suppose that's one approach. Are you suggesting then that the 6.5 CM is only a good choice with a specific bullet?

I think what was suggested is pretty spot on about figuring out what bullet you want FIRST, then deciding on cartridge to make that bullet perform.

If you want to shoot mono's for example, I would bypass any of the lower velocity rounds like the 6.5 CM, 7-08, and even 308, 30/06 too. Anything under about 2800 FPS is going to give you fits with mono's. There's been threads about that on hunttalk that resulted in animals not being found right away due to crap expansion. The mono's need something with some ass behind them, really can't be pushed too fast.

Twist rate is also a consideration depending on if you want heavy for caliber or more standard fare for bullet weight.

I'll give you some first hand experience, when I had 2 7-08's built, I knew I was going to be shooting the 140 grain accubonds or BT's. I twisted 1-9, way more than plenty for a 140, magazine length even in short actions was not a problem, yada yada. I had ZERO intention of ever shooting mono's in those 2 rifles, and I don't. I get 2850-2910 for velocity, plenty for a 140 cup and core/bonded, but not too much either. I would argue a pretty sweet spot and a mountain of dead animals seem to be the proof. I won't be shooting mono's in either one, ever (unless forced by law).

If I were to make the move to mono's in the .284 I'd do it in my 7RM and push them as fast as I could. Out of a requirement I did load some mono's for my 7RM, 140 E-tips, for that rifle and they shoot fantastic. Even at 3200 FPS and the label on the box claiming they expand fine at slower velocities, I have to holler BS on the label. I shot a dozen or so animals with them, including some largish bull elk and a bull moose. Lets just say I'm glad I didn't have to shoot anything past 350ish yards with them. Expansion was pretty lame on those bullets and I recovered a couple, even at 3200 FPS from the muzzle.

What most hunters would be wise to do is give things more than a passing thought on what they want out of the bullet and select a cartridge accordingly.

But, no matter how much you try to help, most are going to ignore the logic and then get pissed when they can't find an elk for a day or two after they shot it. Of course, its not THEIR fault, its the cartridge.

 

[Bowmannate2000]

And I've actually gained some interesting caliber and cartridge information from it. Some very knowledgeable people around here!

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I think what was suggested is pretty spot on about figuring out what bullet you want FIRST, then deciding on cartridge to make that bullet perform.

If you want to shoot mono's for example, I would bypass any of the lower velocity rounds like the 6.5 CM, 7-08, and even 308, 30/06 too. Anything under about 2800 FPS is going to give you fits with mono's. There's been threads about that on hunttalk that resulted in animals not being found right away due to crap expansion. The mono's need something with some ass behind them, really can't be pushed too fast.

Twist rate is also a consideration depending on if you want heavy for caliber or more standard fare for bullet weight.

I'll give you some first hand experience, when I had 2 7-08's built, I knew I was going to be shooting the 140 grain accubonds or BT's. I twisted 1-9, way more than plenty for a 140, magazine length even in short actions was not a problem, yada yada. I had ZERO intention of ever shooting mono's in those 2 rifles, and I don't. I get 2850-2910 for velocity, plenty for a 140 cup and core/bonded, but not too much either. I would argue a pretty sweet spot and a mountain of dead animals seem to be the proof. I won't be shooting mono's in either one, ever (unless forced by law).

If I were to make the move to mono's in the .284 I'd do it in my 7RM and push them as fast as I could. Out of a requirement I did load some mono's for my 7RM, 140 E-tips, for that rifle and they shoot fantastic. Even at 3200 FPS and the label on the box claiming they expand fine at slower velocities, I have to holler BS on the label. I shot a dozen or so animals with them, including some largish bull elk and a bull moose. Lets just say I'm glad I didn't have to shoot anything past 350ish yards with them. Expansion was pretty lame on those bullets and I recovered a couple, even at 3200 FPS from the muzzle.

What most hunters would be wise to do is give things more than a passing thought on what they want out of the bullet and select a cartridge accordingly.

But, no matter how much you try to help, most are going to ignore the logic and then get pissed when they can't find an elk for a day or two after they shot it. Of course, its not THEIR fault, its the cartridge.

brilliant post.

 

[Forkyfinder]

with the thought that the increased BC will make up the difference? I can see that argument, but in practice, by the time the 6.5 makes up the difference you're already below a velocity for reliable expansion, for monos at least.

Barnes 120 gr 7mm08
Barnes 120 gr 6.5

Tell me which is which? Then try to tell me theres a significant difference...

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I'm pretty content to leave this conversation where BuzzH put it. Not much to improve on there.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm pretty content to leave this conversation where BuzzH put it. Not much to improve on there.

Maybe one more thing, and that is that the factory ammo manufactures have a hand in this too. They don't do a very good job all the time of manufacturing the correct bullet weight/velocity intersection for some rounds either.

Someone deserves a kick to the sack:

7mm-08 Remington 140gr Expansion Tip Ammunition - RMEF

www.nosler.com

More correct if you HAVE to, but I'd still go 7RM:

Barnes VOR-TX 7mm-08 Remington Ammo 120 Grain Barnes Tipped

Barnes bullets have historically had the reputation of offering quick, clean and humane kills. Now they are taking their highly regarded bullets to the...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Doublecluck]

If someone really wants a 26 they could just go with a prc in a 20/22”, you could run suppressed, send monos north of 3k and still get 2800 with 140/150/156. 7 saum you could push -140’s monos zingin and still run 168’s. Both you’ll still be in a SA and could kill things dead er er.

 

[Brad]

Are you suggesting the three are interchangeable?

I sure am... the differences amount to pole vaulting over mouse turds.

But I really want to see your pictures...

 

[rideold]

If you want to shoot mono's for example, I would bypass any of the lower velocity rounds like the 6.5 CM, 7-08, and even 308, 30/06 too. Anything under about 2800 FPS is going to give you fits with mono's. There's been threads about that on hunttalk that resulted in animals not being found right away due to crap expansion. The mono's need something with some ass behind them, really can't be pushed too fast.

Interesting. I had not thought of it that way. So, if I'm reading you correctly you are meaning that any mono that doesn't exit the muzzle north of 2,800 FPS will not expand?