300 win mag or 7mm rem mag

[pseshooter300]

Ya I'm really leaning towards the 7 mm but I have just about talked myself out of the sendero I love that gun but now that I think about it that gun is probably not suited to be packing around out west with the weight. So now back to the drawing board. Good times!!!

 

[BuzzH]

I'm having to eat some serious crow on the 7mm RM...Bambistew and I went round and round on it a while back. He was right, I was wrong. The 7mm hunts/kills bigger than the caliber, and thats just a simple fact.

Unless you're in need of killing mostly larger big-game...I'd have to say go 7mm. Even then, the more I hunt, the more I believe that speed, "knock down power" and all that other BS are wayyyy over-rated. I still have a soft spot for 30's and 338's for elk, but, IMO, shot placement and bullet construction are much more important.

A well placed bullet of proper construction makes many garden variety standard calibers kill way better than they seem like they should.

As to bullet weight, I'd stick with 160's in the 7mm...and I'd give the accu-bonds a good close look for sure. I tried them in mine this spring and the results were pretty impressive on paper, 300 yard 3-shot group:

I was concerned with them on game...but got over that real quick, killed 10 big-game animals with them this year:

The second and third bullets from the left are from the bull I just killed in AZ...620 yards and were recovered on the off-side. The farthest right bullet from a mule deer buck shot stem-to-stern at about 130 yards. Not sure how any bullet could perform much better.

Good luck with your decision.

Heres my rifle rem 700 bdl, factory barrel 24 inches, B&C Ti stock, timney trigger at 2.75#, m-1 turrets on a 3x9 leupold with a leupold dot reticle, bedded and floated, talley LW rings and bases, Montana sling...

 

[pseshooter300]

That is a good looking gun where is a website for those stocks?

 

[BuzzH]

right here:

http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/StoreFront

I've been busy today looking at all sorts of firearm stuff, including stocks...just bought a Left-hand rem. short action for my wife that will be making its way to pac nor for a barrel, truing, etc. Probably end up with a B&C stock.

Leaning 7-08...but havent ruled out a 260.

 

[belly-deep]

Who is John Burns? And should I be impressed?

I own a 7mag and killed a bunch of animals with it. If I didn't already have the 7mag, I'd buy the RUM in a heartbeat.

Can't imagine cost is really an issue... if you want to shoot long range you're reloading anyway, the only real increase is about 30% more powder.

How many rounds you spose it would take to 'eat out a barrel' in a RUM? Do you really think it would preclude someone from shooting the darn thing? I can't say that I know anyone who's shot out a barrel on a hunting rifle... I burned one up in a 243, but shot it until the barrel about melted off...

I don't know why I even respond to these stupid long range posts. I'd never killed anything over 450 yards, and doubt I ever will try...

Never said you should be impressed. John Burns is a long range shooter/hunter who has been in a few movies/tv shows on the subject. The guy has many one shot kills on camera out to 1,000 or so, including shots on elk. He uses a 7mm Rem Mag quite a bit but has been using a .264 Win Mag lately.

The point is, energy-wise a 7mm Rem Mag is sufficient. Something like a 7mm Rem Ultra Mag does not increase your range to any extent in a hunting rifle. For a human to shoot further than a 7mm Rem Mag can kill, a heavier gun like the .338 Lapua is usually built on is needed. An Ultra will provide less bullet drop, but once you get past 400 yards or so that doesn't matter because 1) you have to know your bullet drop regardless of cartridge and 2) wind is usually a bigger problem and you have to know your wind drift as well.

Cartridges like the 7mm Ultra were very advantageous...before you get a decent rangefinder for $500. Now they give you little advantage. Breaksrunner kills stuff out past 500 yards with a .308!!! Point is, you have to know your drop and range. Once that is known, the only difference between a 7mm Ultra and a .308 is how much you twist the turrent.

Cost and barrel life is an issue for a long range shooter. Unless the OP is alread a practiced LR marksman, he'll wear out a 7 Ultra barrel before he is good enough to take advantage of the gun's ability to kill at long range. Overbore cartridges like a 7 Ultra will eat out a barrel in 1,000 rounds or so. You can easily get 1/5 of the way there in initial load development alone.

 

[BuzzH]

belly-deep,

Good post...

Its probably a good idea to buy something with longer barrel life, LR shooting takes a lot of practice. I burned through over 200 rounds in my 7mm this spring...and more than that shooting my 22-250.

Trigger time, knowing the distance, and knowing bullet drop correction is way more important than the head-stamp.

 

[Bambistew]

I understand where you're coming from. To me it seems like more of a good thing has its limits? Didn't realize that you'd burn out a 7RUM barrel that fast.

Glad I'm not planning on getting into the long range hunting business. I'll keep what I have and spend my money on bush flights.

I've seen JB's shows, I don't understand the whole long range shooting thing. Just not my bag.

 

[Summitthunting]

I agree Bambistew, I think a lot of people think the rifle will make them a long range shooter, but we all know it's the practice. I'd rather get closer anyway, it's more fun.

 

[BuzzH]

I think a person has to be somewhat honest with themselves as to why they're setting up a LR rifle. If its just to be a lazy bastage and trying to compensate for poor hunting skills...thats lame.

I sat down and did a lot of thinking about what I would do on a trophy hunt if, on the last hour of the last day, an animal I'd worked my ass off for stepped out at 500 yards.

I'd be shooting with whatever rifle I had, period, I know I would...and I think most others that are honest would be too. I see it every year, and I hear about it every year. "This big buck stepped out at ____yards, and I held a couple feet over its back and let 'er fly"... I've been there when friends have done it! I've done it!

Knowing what I would do, I just made it a point to set myself up to be able to take a longer shot when/if needed. It doesnt come cheap and it doesnt come easy. Theres no short cuts via a caliber, headstamp, velocity, scope etc. that will get you there.

With the amount of time required to draw permits these days, the amount of time/money invested in every other aspect of hunting, I see no good reason to not spend the additional time and money to be the best you can with your rifle...just makes sense.

I hope I never have to shoot at extended ranges, but reality is a bitch.

 

[vander34]

Pretty well said buzz. I've been looking at a new rifle for the mere fact I want one and I still haven't decided between these two calibers, I don't want to just shoot stuff at long ranges but I would like to be able to if it were a last option. Sorta glad this post came up, and not to steal the thread but what all did you have done to you 700? And what sorta cost if you don't mind my asking buzz?

 

[BuzzH]

Put on the B&C stock, bedded and floated by a good friend. Installed a timney trigger, talley LW rings, and did a bunch of load development.

The stock was a couple hundred, bedding materials were around $50, timney was just slightly over $100, talley LW were $39.

Probably right near $400...

I got the rifle for free, my Dad won it in a raffle and gave it to me.

 

[pseshooter300]

Well buzz reading your post you gave me a idea to build me a gun sorta the way you did. I don't know that I will need to shoot that far but I'm gonna plan on practicing out to 300 we can shoot that far at our club range you got to remember I live in the east Tn mountains most of our shots at deer are back in the mountains in thick wooded areas that are very close distances. But I'm just trying to get me a gun for longer shots and practice shooting out to 300 in case I have a shot opportunity that is that far.

 

[Bambistew]

Buzz

I've pondered this same question for years. You're exactly right on the last day hail marry shooting. I've done it, but the reality is the distance wasn't really that far by most standards 400-450ish yards. I guess? I’ve also passed on a few animals at farther ranges near the end of the season. One in particular that is seared into my brain… I’ll never forget watching 3 bulls walk across a hill side in belly deep snow, the first was a gagger (350class 6x thick bladed tops), the second was a nice 6pt bull, the last was a 5pt brush head. Distance was verified years later with a range finder… at about 650 yards. A chip shot for most guys these days it seems, but well out of my range then and now. With a LR set up and ample trigger time, probably would have been doable. However I have a great memory of the one that got away too.

Reality is what keeps me going. If I could pull a 1000 yard rifle out of my back pocket when I "needed" it, would it make it any more or less rewarding to take the animal? That’s the question I’ve asked myself 1000 times. I’m not sure what the answer is. I haven’t built a rifle, or upgraded optics, so the answer must be no?

I don't really care if people want to shoot a recurve or a Lapua, we need to do what makes us happy. Long range hunting is not something for me at this time.

Every time I talk about this issue, I always see myself as a hypocrite. Maybe I should just sell all my rifles and use a spear, or maybe just sharpen my teeth?

I recall there was a discussion about this subject a few years ago. I think you’ve had a change of heart? Then again you’re shooting a 7mag now too.

 

[174in]

Toss up in my book both are great calibers.The only thing I would sugggest is a lighterweight gun.I bought a weatherby accumark in a 7mm stw years ago and took it out west it got very heavy after the first day. For a gun I plan on walking around with I like to keep the whole package (scope &rings) under 9lbs and 7 or 8lbs is better yet.

 

[cowboy]

So I'm toying around the idea of building a remington 700 sendero in one of these calibers. Which one would you choose and why? I think either would make a awesome big game rifle for long range if needed. Thanks

After reading through this I will be the first to say you are wise in forgetting about the sendero - there are many other options that will do as well and will be much more pleasant to carry.

I would guess I have taken as many animals with a .284 bullet as anyone on this forum - After many years and thousands of rounds down range it is very tough to beat the ballistic coeffience of the .284 bullets - And yes it is VERY capable of taking elk size game out to 1000 yds.

If you want to stay with a factory loaded cartridge I would say to change your 2 options to the 7mm WSM or the 7mm Rem mag. If you are not an experienced reloaded the 7 Rem mag is a belted cartridge and that in itself causes some unique reloading situations in that the head spacing is based off the belt where as the head space of the 7WSM is based off the shoulder and is much easier to work with.

If you really want to get unusual go with a 280AI - which is only 75-100 fps slower than a 7 Rem Mag.

One last thing - whatever you decide I would base my decision on what bullet or bullets you are going to use. I ain't never seen a critter killed with a caliber BUT I've seen more than a couple killed by a bullet.

This opinion comes from having carried a 7 Rem mag for a few miles - and yes I did burn out 2 barrels, switched to a 280 Rem until that barrel was gone and now packing a 280AI.

 

[pseshooter300]

I guess I don't shoot near as much you guys do but how many shots does it take to burn out a barrel in 7mm REM mag

 

[BuzzH]

Bambistew,

I struggle with the same things you mentioned...

I've passed on lots of animals as well due to many factors including range. I know I will pass on many more.

Cant say I've had a change of heart on the LR stuff...still believe a few are capable, while many think they are.

 

[Summitthunting]

I think, therefore I am, a LR shooter. you mean it's not that easy.

 

[anIDhunter]

+1
anIDhunter

Depends on what you're using it for.

If you hunt a lot of elk I'd probably go with the 300...if you plan on hunting primarily deer/antelope with the occassional elk...I'd go 7mm.