280 (Here is a Exotic question 4 ya)

Moosie

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I see ya bashing ELK FARMING and RANCHING .... BLAH BLAH BLAH.. OK, THat's not the issue here... MY question is :

1. Is Exotic Ranching/hunting fall in the same catagory as Elk ranching in "YOUR" opinion and should be out lawed, OR is it OK because they don't carry CWD ?

Well I got more.. But I'll see if I can get you to answer the first one first...


PS, BUZZ I see ya browsing and Wanting to answer too... I'm open to ANYones thoughts or COMMENTS !!!! (Even Greenhorns...
:eek: ) *WINK*
 

Greenhorn

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My opinion... remember opinions are like wrinkle muscles ..everybody has one
.

I don't have a problem at all with exotics or elk farms notta one, even though I'm not one to really go for that type of deal.

But.. if that industry.. whether it be exotics or elk ranches, or whatever else.. is managed with the money I personally give to the state to take care of wildlife and manage somthing I'm interested in... HUNTING wild-life... i.e. "wild" life... as in not captive and free-ranging... then I got problems with it.

If you want to go shoot some critter in a pen.. cool. More power to ya, if it's hard or easy.. whatever floats yer boat. But don't expect me to help ya pay for it. And if it causes HUGE expenses in monitoring, testing, clean-ups, game round-ups, .. etc.. the GAME FARMER should pay 100% of the expenses.. not the state... not my taxes... not my hunting license dollars.

Since my money was going toward that... that's why it got voted out.. as in see YA in a hurry! The game farmers in MT shoulda proactively kept themselves in business by making sure the many uninterested parties wallets didn't have to keep them in line. Now that it bit them on the hiney, they opt to BLAME all us anti-hunting, anti-private property rights nazis. Gimme a break.

Hey, just my opinion. :D
 

danr55

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As many times as I've bumped heads with Greeny, I have to agree with him down the line on this one. It's all a matter of personal ethics and what you want. If you have the cash to pay for it and it doesn't cost me anything, then go do it.

:cool:
 

BuzzH

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Moosie, I guess I feel about the same as Greenhorn. As long as I dont have to pay for it, have at it.

My personal opinion on exotics is its fine. I dont have a problem with people hunting black bucks, rams, barbary sheep, mouflon etc. etc. on farms in Texas and elsewhere. What choice does one have with exotics? I mean game farms are basically the only place a North American hunter can realistically hunt most of them, for various reasons. Thats fine. I know a good many people who have hunted exotics in Texas and its fine with me. Not really something thats high on my priority list of hunting adventures, but I aint against it either.

But, somewhere a line needs to be drawn on native species. I've seen game farms that offer mountain goat hunts, bighorn sheep, elk, etc. all native game species found in North America. To me thats plain pathetic, and pi$$ poor. What kind of an idiot would like to shoot an elk, mountain goat, etc. in a pen?

I've heard all the excuses, its for the crippled, its for the old guys, its for people who want a guarantee, its for the guys who cant scout blah blah blah.

I say you take your chances on the real deal. If you get one, you get one, if you dont tough $hit. If you're crippled, fat, or lazy stay home and knit. You either cut the mustard or you stay home. I dont and cannot with a clear conscience degrade the sport just so a few numbnuts can plaster a critter on their wall and call themselves hunters.

Thats my opinion.
 

Moosie

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THANX for the responses... BUT, I'll address this to BUZZ.... WHO gives you the right to CHOOSE what "ETHICAL" hunting is ??! WHY is it so PATHETIC and PIS$ poor for someone to hunt in a PEN...... HAVE ya ever fished in a POND ?!?! WHATS the difference actually..... AND how big does a pond have to be for it to be ETHICAL fishing ?!?? Just wondering.....

GREENY.... was it tax dollars put to good use in Montanna that was used forthe ELK ranch management "LOOK AFTER" or did the state decide to spend it themselves to look into it. I don't thin kit was managed with your money actually at all... BUT like 280 will say, I don't know that much anyways
(OHHH ANYWAYS isn't a word I ws told but I like ta use it ;))

Isn't hunting , whether it is 10 miles back in liek Greeny likes to do, in a 100 acre tract for whitetail like the easterners do, or hunting in a pen... ALL done for fun, and to have a good time....

WHAT about those hunts in AFRICA, most of those are inclosed ..aren't they ?!!? ONE way or another.... YET many opposed to elk hunting in a ranch would hunt African game.....

I keep bouncing back and forth ... but why should hunting exotics (BUZZ TOPIC HERE} in a pen be OK becasue they aren't native... A pen hunt is a pen hunt RIGHT ?!?! Someone that wants to hunt a exotic.. might should have to go to that Country that harbours them, under your line of thinking.... AND how big does an area have to be not to be a "PEN" ??!? I know of 1000 acre tracts of land with no fence but inclosed with sourounding houses and roads..... Wouldn't that be considered a PEN ?!!? he game stays inside and essentially "CAN'T" leave.... HUMmmm yet whitetail hunters do it all the time.....
 

snite66

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BuzzH,

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> If you're crippled, fat, or lazy stay home and knit. You either cut the mustard or you stay home. I dont and cannot with a clear conscience degrade the sport just so a few numbnuts can plaster a critter on their wall and call themselves hunters.

Thats my opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So in your opinon someone that is in a car wreck and injured to the point that they cannot pull a bow back anymore should not be allowed to hunt with a crossbow?

Someone that is in a wheelchair and cannot navigate the mountains should be kept from enjoying the thrill of pulling the trigger on a majestic ELK?

These people cannot enter any of thier kills in either Pope and Young or Boone and Crockett club record books, so just exactly how are they degrading the sport?
Seems to me they are taking advantage of an opertunity to enjoy the great thrill of taking an animal the only way they can.

As far as your tax dollars paying for the game farmers, I have a question:

How many signatures did you collect to get legislation started to do away with subsidies for grain farmers, for dairy farmers, for sawmill operators, for mine operators??

These buisnesses do more damage to the areas and wildlife you guys hunt in one month than the game farms have done in thier entire history.

I am off my soap box now
 

Moosie

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HOW about PAINTING.... I can't paint, therefore I buy paintings....

I think if someone wants to WACK a NICE big BUCK at a ranch (BUY IT), and hang it on their wall.... THEY should be able too..... PEople also buy antlers they didn't harvest... IS that wrong ?

BUZZ.. DO ya tease Retarded folks and OLD ladies too, maybe kick a dog or two while your out ther huh ?... OHH my gosh .. I can't believe you wrote that about HUNTERS of any kind.....
 

BuzzH

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Moosie, no one give me the right to choose whats ethical, the game laws make a weak attempt to cover that. Do you think its right to whack mature mule deer bucks on winter range when they're a$$ deep in January snow? Yeah, you could sure get a good one, but how would you really feel about it? Probably not the same as killing the same deer in October in its vast summer range. At least I wouldnt feel the same about it, but some would. Thats what ETHICS are. In my opinion there is way too much emphasis put on having to kill something for a hunt to be a success. I dont need to kill something to be accepted into the hunting commmunity, but I wont hestitate to kill when I know its right.

I aint here trying to change anyones ethics. I believe ethics in a broader sense are a gut-feeling each individual chooses to have. Some people have none, they just dont care, they'll do anything to kill an animal.

As to the game farms being paid for by hunters your wrong. We hunters (direct license dollars) paid for the administration of game farms. Thats a fact, and one that is very well documented by both the game farm industry and the Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks. It aint no secret.

Snite said, "So in your opinon someone that is in a car wreck and injured to the point that they cannot pull a bow back anymore should not be allowed to hunt with a crossbow?"

The answer is Yes, its a bow season and you hunt with the legally defined weapon or you stay home. Thats what they make rifle seasons for. The same as a lard-a$$ who draws a goat tag and cant climb the peaks to get one. I aint gonna pave a highway to the peaks because of his chunky butt.

Snite66 said, "Someone that is in a wheelchair and cannot navigate the mountains should be kept from enjoying the thrill of pulling the trigger on a majestic ELK?"

Nope not saying that at all, just saying you have to do it like everyone else. I bet you could get dozens of large ranches to let a wheel chair hunter have unlimited access to great hunting each year. Ranches with wild elk, not a game farm elk. Look at the pictures Greenhorn had of the guy in the wheelchair with the record book bighorn...he didnt let his disability change his ethics. He gutted it out like a true warrior and killed himself an excellent ram. He was not a cripple first then a hunter, he was a hunter who happens to be in a wheelchair. I also bet that guy wouldnt be caught dead hunting elk near a gamefarm.

In my opinion there just isnt a reason for elk to be shot in pens, NONE.

Besides all that, this is my opinion, and mine alone.
 

Moosie

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AHH BUZZZZZZzzzzzzzz....

LEt's think about this.. IF the deer is in waist high SNOW, THEN I am too.. therefor hunting WAY harder then I would have in October..... RIGHT ?!?! ALSO, I would do anything to kill an Animal, does that make hunting worse if I go ALL OUT ?!?!?! Just wondering...

THAT guy that Greenhorn posted a picture of..... HOW did he get up in the HILLS with that wheelchair ? Can ya remember ? I can't.. Greenhorn, HElp a brother out again....

BUZZ, I respect your opinion.. Even if it's wrong .. :D :D (WINK)

PS, JUST MY opinion !!!!!!
 

BuzzH

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Moosie, nope have never poked fun at a mentally challenged individual, nor old ladies, I used to have a couple grandma's.

I know lets let all the people who dont own a bow go out this year all over the U.S. and hunt with a gun during bow season. It isnt their fault they dont own a bow. They just don't have the time/money/or the effort it takes to hunt with a bow. Therefore, lets all give up our bow season so they can hunt elk in the rut in September. That way we're all Politically Correct and no ones left out. How would you respond to that?

Moosie, yeah you would be in waist deep snow for a few unconfortable hours. The buck thats been run down from the rut will have been there for a month or two. He hasnt got a choice, and chances are, you'd never see that buck except for the conditions. Dont you think thats why they dont let you hunt on winter range in January? That deer is many times more vulnerable.

Do you at least get the idea, maybe that wasnt the best analogy, but you at least get the drift?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-10-2001 22:00: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
 

Greenhorn

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Buzz, you have that guy figured out. Wheelchair or not, he wouldn't be on a game farm any sooner that he'd be trying on a leopard skin G-string in Miss Kitties Adult store. :D But hey.. whatever trips your trigger.

But like I said... don't expect me to pay for it... and if I have to... expect me to shove it up your a$$ when it comes time to vote on it! :D :D

It's as simple as that, done deal.. old news. Time to book them penned hunts elsewhere as a result.
 

Moosie

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BUZZ.. one thing to let a phisically impared person to hunt with a x-bow durring a BOW season.. here in Idaho it's a CHOOSE your weapon.. I kind of like it, I think they should make people take a shooting test aswell. just my .02.. but I seen lame ass shooters not able to shoot a target at 20 yards flinging arrows at 60+/.... BUT, NO, THERE should be seasons, SHPULD have restrictions..... I think that NO-ONE said ANYTHIONG about that. Snite was bringing up Physically challenged people.. NOT LARD A$$ people. big difference.......
 

snite66

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Snite said, "So in your opinon someone that is in a car wreck and injured to the point that they cannot pull a bow back anymore should not be allowed to hunt with a crossbow?"

The answer is Yes, its a bow season and you hunt with the legally defined weapon or you stay home. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So in you are saying that just because this archer was injured to the point of being unable to draw a bow back(by no fault of his own) he should miss the oportunities availiable to you during archery season?

I will agree with you on anyone that does not get into shape for a hunt. That is thier own fault.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I bet you could get dozens of large ranches to let a wheel chair hunter have unlimited access to great hunting each year. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So I guess as long as you can find private land owners to do that it would be fine. What if they can't find one?
I am trying to get the point across that these "farms" gave people oportunities they did not have before.

You never did answer my question on just how they are degrading this sport when they are not allowed to enter the kills in the record books.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-10-2001 22:11: Message edited by: snite66 ]</font>
 

BuzzH

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Snite66 said, "So in you are saying that just because this archer was injured to the point of being unable to draw a bow back(by no fault of his own) he should miss the oportunities availiable to you during archery season?"

Thats exactly what I'm saying. No hidden message no misinterpreted words. They should hunt the rifle season or hunt with a crossbow when its legal to do so. If its against the law for everyone else to hunt with one during "archery only" seasons then no they shouldnt be granted special priveleges.

What if they cant find a ranch to hunt? Give me a break, just because they're in a wheelchair they usually drive a car or know how to use a telephone. If they cant find a place to hunt they arent looking very hard.

Just another excuse for elk farms that I, for one, aint buying into.
 

snite66

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Thats exactly what I'm saying. No hidden message no misinterpreted words. They should hunt the rifle season or hunt with a crossbow when its legal to do so. If its against the law for everyone else to hunt with one during "archery only" seasons then no they shouldnt be granted special priveleges. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you can always hope you always have your health then HUH?

You never did answer my question on just how they are degrading this sport when they are not allowed to enter the kills in the record books.

I will accept your argument about the disabled. It is a valid and well put point.
 

Moosie

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BUZZ.... SLOW down.. your POSTING NUMBERS are going through the ROOF !!!!! ;)

What is your issue on people geting hit by CARS BUZZ.. you seem not to like them.. HEHE (I AM FUNNY.... THANX)

I get your point and it's actually a good point. BUT, I feel they should be able too.. Just my OPINION, but it's mine. I don't think MY hunt will be inhibited by Someone that got hit by a car packing a X-bow inthe hills while I'm bow hunting.. If so, I'm the looser ?!?!? RIGHT ?!?!?!

JUSt like the whiners in the general rifle hunt......

HERES another one BUZZ.. how about guides.. what are your thoughts on someone harvesting a trophy animal A guide finds and SHOWS them and they jsu tpull the trigger... BUT no FENCE is involved ?!?!?! SAME or DIFFERENT ?>
 

Moosie

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STEVE.. I think we tiered him out..... BETWEEN the exotic and the ELK section...

I like him becasue he can post stuff yet not be a ***** like me !! I wish I was more like him.... Except be more right like me.. DOES that make sense ??!??! *WINK*

ANYWAYS.. MY time to turn in also... I won't have much time tomorrow... I'll get bac kon tomorrow nite fo-sho !!! THANX for all the interesting comparisons guys and examples !!! THATS why Ilike y'all... I jsut wish the real "280" would have posted tonight ;)
 
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