Archery Elk Newbie Template/Approach.... and a question

Joeaveragehunter

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Hello,

I hesitated to post at all, but if you're gonna work Randy's system, I figure you have to do it all.

#3 Offer something before you ask for something.

I see the question "Where should I go for my first elk hunt, not looking for a monster... not asking for honey holes... etc." Well here is the way I approached it for a bow hunt this fall.

****There are 100 ways to do it better than this, but it's a place you can start****

I have been bowhunting elk hunting a 3 times BK (before kids), last time was a decade ago in Oregon, but the new constraints have forced me to essentially start over in planning for an elk hunt. My wife and I have 5 work days to hunt, meaning 7 days including travel. We can't scout in person, we don't know anyone living in western states and my smart-ass uncles are the only ones who have hunted elk out there and you have to wear hip waders to get through those stories.

Since the kids were almost old enough to leave with the grandparents, I got a burr up my ass to get back out elk hunting July of 2017 and the plan was to be ready for 2018.

**Randy had a great podcast back in the late 20's or early 30's about planning an elk hunt and I took it as a guideline to approach my hunt**

Podcasts are awesome. You can listen to them while doing something else and there is almost an endless amount of them out there. Best part is you can read the description and see what the podcast is about. I listened to every episode of Hunt Talk, Meateater, Wired to Hunt, Cody Rich, and then I searched on others for podcasts that have elk hunting in the title/description. Downside is there aren't really specifics on where to go OTC.

Forums are awesomely terrible. Looked on and googled a ton of elk hunting forums. I have read every post that has MT, CO, ID, elk, deer, bowhunting in the title on this site and others. Some things I learned.
1-If you hunt hard enough, you can kill a big bull in any unit.
2-There are no elk left in any unit that doesn't take 78 points to draw.
3-If you walk far enough back, you can find elk.
4-If you walk more than x miles from the road, you walk passed the best elk hunting.
5-If you walk far enough, there won't be many if any hunters
6-If you walk too far, you will run into outfitters with horses and they know where all the elk are... don't try it.
7-There are hunters on every ridge in every OTC unit and if you didn't live in the 70's you missed it.
Obviously, the list is tongue in cheek. I finally realized that forums are not always, but can be like talk radio. There is 10% truth and great content if you can sift through the other 90% of entertainment value in the posts.

So, I had to get some parameters on paper to figure out where to go. I googled every variation of best place/state/unit/forest/ to hunt elk for the money/time/points/OTC/success rate. What I learned is I needed to figure out what I couldn't do, before I could narrow down my google -which turned out to be every state out west and Kentucky.

Constraints-

Time-I picked an arbitrary number (15) hours we can reasonably travel, in one day, safely, and still hunt the next day, by vehicle and drew a circle around St Paul, MN.

Access-I need access to public land and an OTC tag.

#of hunters-Northern WI gun opener is enough to test anyone's tolerance to gunfire.

#of elk-I am not a wily veteran local bow hunter and will not be able to find tiny pockets of elk in a short amount of time. Previous trips averaged 3 days to get eyes on the first elk. I need a unit that has a decent population.

Elevation-I like beer and cheese curds. I work out, but have been to 10000' in my younger and slimmer years and nearly tipped over after a couple hundred yards.

Success-It doesn't matter if there are a million elk if they are all on private land or 10 miles back.

Camping-I have always hunted from a truck camp. I like the fact that you are always reasonably close to transportation should something happen to someone in the group or if you need to bomb to town for supplies or gear.
Now that I had my limitations written down, I went to formulating the plan. This happened over several months.

Time-15 hours eliminated most of the OTC options for elk hunting in the west. I had to change my plan immediately and expanded it to 18 hours. This would be a sleep/drive change every stop for gas to qualify for my "safe" and "hunt the next day". I ended up with most of MT, Eastern ID, and roughly half of CO.

Access-I took all the units in all three states and identified all the OTC units that I would have access to and listed them individually. This took me a lot time and work, I am sure there is an easier way then the way I did it.

Elevation-I looked at this next. I was a couple 13, 14 deep and I convinced myself there aint no mountain high enough, aint no valley low enough aint no river wide enough, at this point I was actually singing the song and realized that from past experience that 8000' was an absolute cap and 6500' was even better. This eliminated most of CO for me as well as a couple units in MT and ID.

**Curveball** Predators-Wife informed me that there was no way in hell we were to be hunting in any unit that had grizzly bears. Cross off any unit near Yellowstone and a few others in MT. (yes I realize that it is possible for a grizzly to pop up almost anywhere in that country, but don’t tell her that).

At this point, I am left with approximately 30 units between ID and MT. At this number, it was actually feasible to do a deep dive into every unit individually. Having listened to the podcasts, roads greatly impact elk and I looked at maps to see the roads that were open during elk season. This crossed off another 10 units.

Now I had my core 20 units that I could concentrate on. I was stuck at this point for awhile and just compiled data on these units. # of hunters, # of elk, positive/negative comments on forums and podcasts, dissected randy’s shows to find out where he goes, state reports, online reports from different websites. Where did I find this stuff? Remember the 1,200 variations of best OTC elk hunt?

It’s funny because I actually suffered from paralysis by analysis for a month. I eventually read enough posts that said, “JUST GO DO IT” to get me to commit to an approach and see it through.

I applied a point value to each category on a spreadsheet. My headers were elevation, public land % in unit, # of bulls taken resident/non res, # of cows taken resident/non res, # of hunters resident/non res. So if a unit had its highest point at 6000 feet and the was the lowest out of the 25, then it got 1 point. Conversely the highest peak got 25 points. I did that for every unit.

^^^^Disclaimer^^^^ it is reasonable to assume that the more elk in a unit, the more hunters, the more elk taken. Keep in mind your data can be manipulated depending on what categories you use.

I now have my top three units from my spreadsheet. These are not the best units to go elk hunting in, they don’t guarantee anything, they are just a result of me picking arbitrary data and assigning a point value to them because it is the best way I could think of getting to the point where I can “JUST GO DO IT.”

I contacted the biologist in each unit and even asked the switchboard lady on the phone if she knew anything or had any suggestions (I will definitely call her back if I decide to go fishing out there). I made sure to tell them “I did A, B, C, that led me to L, M, and N, and I am looking for any information you have on Y and Z.” It took them awhile to get back to me, but all of them were very nice. A synopsis of the conversations was the elk start high and get pushed down on to private as the year goes on. If you are willing to hike, you will see elk, killing them is up to you. My wife was a little more successful when she called… and got a little more specific information than I did.

This process is 12 months in the making, it wasn’t difficult, but it took a lot of time. I hope that this gives you an outline that you can create your own process in identifying a place to go that fits your wants, needs, and constraints.

IF ANYONE IS STILL READING THIS….

I am looking for places for us to park the truck, set up a tent and hike from it daily. I have looked for MVUM’s on deerlodge/beaverhead national forest around the border and haven’t found one online (n gravely, s gravely, and tobacco root are ones I see) and the forestry officer I talked to couldn’t find one online and said there are some areas that they just don’t have one. I haven’t gotten ON-X yet, and I just started to dive into the new ON-X videos that Randy posted. I appreciate any input or suggestions. Feel free to send me a PM.

Good Luck!
 
Welcome to the forum. It seems like you are on a good path and wish you luck this fall. I enjoy going through data as well, but sure hope you had a gohunt subscription if you were comparing multiple states. They might still be offering their free month trial.
 
Hey Guy- Good research and great first post.
My first recommendation would be to buy On X. Use the phone app and get rid of the GPS. Also if you are archery elk hunting, buy the UEH course for elk hunting from elk101. (these 2 tools are vital to killing an elk, not so much finding an elk). If your rifle hunting just follow Randys steps. Otherwise, selecting a unit I believe you've way overcomplicated it. You'll be fine. I've never hunted a unit that I couldn't find elk in within the first 48 hrs. (Hint, I can always seem to find a herd the first night out). As far as the gravellys, tobacco roots, Madison range and centennials go- I'll almost guarantee within a 7 day stretch you will see/encounter a grizzly. So you should blindfold your wife if you plan on hunting those ranges! Good luck!
 
Make sure you have a good phone battery. The cold weather drains it fast! I always have both but use the phone most of the time.
 
Joe,

A really interesting read. I enjoyed. I see you appeared to leave out Utah. Is it not within your 18 hour drive time? Plenty of OTC there and might have some units that fit your elevation requirements? Like Montana Elk says, you can camp in any NF that I know of. Same with BLM land. I have often just parked at pull off to a NF and hunted and camped from a SUV or truck. I start scouting from the truck/SUV and and pack back in if I find something promising more than an hour or 2 walk from the truck. Often you can drive fairly deep into a NF on a NF road and There usually are plenty of places to pull off the road where other hunters/fishermen have done so in the past. Good luck on your hunt. Elevation can certainly be a ace kicker for us living at low elevations.
 
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Awesome read! You are already qualified for rookie elk hunter of the year!

From your last paragraph, it sounds like you're targeting the beaverhead-deerlodge national forest area of SW MT. That's great but.......most of the southern half of the Gravelly Mtn Range is currently closed due to wildfire. You may want to keep that in mind, since archery opener is 15 days away. Unless something completely unusual happens, like a foot of snow in the next 2 weeks (although that "could" happen), that area will likely be a no-go at the beginning of archery season this year. Keep an eye on the "inciweb" website for regular updates on those fires.

Southern part of the Madison range is also dealing with a fire there as well (Bacon Rind fire). But, that area has a higher grizz population so, probably a no go for your wife. BTW, understand about the wifey restrictions. Mine likes to go with me and that's also one of her restrictions - low head-count.

PM me if you have any specific questions about the area. I'm pretty familiar with it and have hunted it a lot.
 
Thank you for the responses. I was saying that I found an MVUM for the gravelys, roots, etc, but not the remainder of the national forest.

I am gonna have to bite the bullet and get ON-X.

My process did seem way over the top, but if it helps one other hunter out there to realize they aren't crazy and some other guy is way worse, then I shared something useful.

Thanks again for weighing in.
 
Great post. I believe go hunt would have seriously saved you a mountain of time getting to your final 20 units. Your point value system was a fantastic way to take those 20 down to 3 with your specific needs. Hope you and your wife have a good hunt.
 
As a fellow rookie elk hunter this post may be the most helpful I have read on how to get out of paralysis by analysis. I keep jumping back and forth between choosing CO, MT, & WY. Listing out my wants/needs in a first hunt and assigning points seems like a very straightforward way to narrow down all of the choices. Thanks for the post.
 
Forums are awesomely terrible. Looked on and googled a ton of elk hunting forums. I have read every post that has MT, CO, ID, elk, deer, bowhunting in the title on this site and others. Some things I learned.
1-If you hunt hard enough, you can kill a big bull in any unit.
2-There are no elk left in any unit that doesn't take 78 points to draw.
3-If you walk far enough back, you can find elk.
4-If you walk more than x miles from the road, you walk passed the best elk hunting.
5-If you walk far enough, there won't be many if any hunters
6-If you walk too far, you will run into outfitters with horses and they know where all the elk are... don't try it.
7-There are hunters on every ridge in every OTC unit and if you didn't live in the 70's you missed it.

HAHAHAHA YES! This is beyond accurate.
 
I've been through a similar thought/research process. After a few years under my belt I've settled on just picking an area and getting boots on the ground. I don't think the statistics helped me any but being in the woods certainly has.

As for where to camp/park....air photos are invaluable for seeing places that folks use on a regular basis assuming you are fine with a forest service dispersed camping situation (i.e. a place to park the truck but no other services).
 
UPDATE TO ORIGINAL POST-
I am starting to see more new elk hunters posting intro questions, so I thought I would share some follow ups with lessons learned. This is my 2018 hunt that resulted from the planning explained above. I am keeping it all in one post, so it is easier to find. No need to comment, just sharing.

We packed up the 2012 half ton Ram and headed from MN to Montana. No issues with the drive there except for the last 10 miles. A “gravel road” out west may not be ¾” crushed limestone graded several times per year. It could be pebbles, rocks (some 6” +), mixed with fine material. We got to our turn off to head up the mountain with a small city of campers and trucks at the “parking lot”. This wasn’t a trailhead; it was a spot off the side of the road where people set up base camp. We took our predetermined turn and headed up the mountain. 100’ later, the trail was closed (this was not mentioned on any map, nor by the FWP officer when I spoke with him. Later we learned it is closed seasonally.)

LESSON: Have more than one way to get to your destination if possible.

We consulted OnX and proceeded to the 2nd of my 4 routes in. The western gravel road turned into a “normal” gravel road and we were clear sailing. Then we hit the back side of the mountain and we left our saved map on OnX. There was a crossroads that we couldn’t see on the phone and after seeing some beautiful country through trial and error, we popped back up on the OnX map. NOTE: ALL carriers reported excellent service at our location. We asked another local hunter later where we could get cell service, he pointed north and said 60 miles that way, then turned south and said 120 miles that way.

LESSON: Save several maps offline AND make sure you save a WIDE map in case you must detour.
LESSON: Catherine Zeta Jones lied to me in the T Mobile commercials and that other guy could definitely not “Hear me now”.

The gravel road soon turned to a two track. This means that it might be sand, dirt, rocks, combination of them, and it also means there could be 12”-18” boulders in the middle of the road. The last 5 miles took us 2 hours… plan accordingly.

First day, we camped at around 9000’ in a truck camp and proceeded to walk down the nearest road. 100 yards in, I stopped to rest. I wasn’t tired as much as I couldn’t catch my breath. I was affected much more than my wife… I think she was on steroids or something.

LESSON: Can’t go from 1000’ to 9000’ and expect your physical ability to be the same, don’t be in good shape, be in great shape.

Second full day, we proceeded to our Death March. 12 miles capped with an 800’ climb where you could reach out and touch the shale in front of you. Not a big deal to someone acclimated and experienced, but mile 10, late afternoon, on a south facing slope, in full sun, 70 degree weather, one bottle of water left for two people, two drainages from camp, and 800 vertical feet of mixed shale/shrub terrain in front of you is not a position you want to be in. We tried to make it from lonely shade tree to lonely shade tree to rest on the way up. Back at camp, my wife asked if I was ever nervous we weren’t going to make it out. I was honest and said “yes, but I woulda came back for you with supplies” (honesty was probably not the best policy in this specific case).

LESSON: Be aware of your surroundings, supplies, and your routes to camp. The easy walk down the ridge and subsequent gentle slope down the drainage next to the creek adds up. The shortest way out might not be the smartest way out.

We probably saw 200 elk in 4.5 days with two different opportunities that should have ended in two dead 6pt bulls. Most of these elk were seen from quite a distance at first light or last light. One positive note of taking your wife is you get to be all time caller. Full disclosure, I had an equal opportunity on one of those 6pts.

LESSON: A bow sling is great for hiking… but don’t be a lazy POS and take it off when you start hunting… even if you are the caller.

Why only 4.5 days out of a 6 day hunt? It was the first time we had been away from our two young boys for more than 24 hours and yes… I caved first. On our way down the mountain, ON THE NORMAL GRAVEL ROAD, I heard the truck “ding” and seen the low tire pressure warning. With only ¼ mile to go, I limped it down to the flat turn around, grabbed the tire plug repair kit and hopped out. Bad news is one tire was cut BAD and deflating fast. Good news is it went flat so fast I was able to hear the other front tire leaking air and the hole just so happened to be pointing up. I plunged the hole and stuck the plug in with all of 25 psi left in the tire. I proceeded to change the flat and found out that I had a DONUT for a spare and not a “real” tire. If you seen a blue Ram going 50mph on the interstate in SW Montana in fall of 18’… my apologies, I tried to stay wayyyy right. Luckily, it was a two-hour delay at the only tire store in town and they happened to have my size and model tire.

LESSONS: All Terrain tire doesn't necessarily mean ALL... it might not cover mountain travel. Check your spare before you leave and know how to remove it and change a tire. Have a tire repair kit… just in case it works out that you get to use it.

Quick add-on. In the chaos of the blown 6pt opportunity at the bottom of the drainage, I must have dropped my range finder. I didn’t realize I lost it until the next day, however, I saved all of our “tracks” on OnX. I pulled it up the next day and followed our previous day’s tracks and no lie, the range finder was laying 3’ off the OnX tracks we were following. OnX? WORTH IT!

2019 elk trip lessons to follow… yes, we couldn’t wait to go back!
 
Found my write up, but realized I never posted it. Here is 2019 elk hunt with a few more mistakes and lessons I learned for anyone new(er) to elk hunting.

ELK HUNT 2019

Bless the OTC (general) tags from Montana, we didn’t draw since there were record number of those pesky out of state hunters applying. We ended up going to Colorado on the west side of the mountains. If you want to know how we ended up choosing the area we went to, see the thread above. I took the same approach and came up with the unit we wanted to go to. I also identified 2 other units within an hour drive if this one didn’t work out.

We left early and drove 14 hours, the last two hours were all downhill. We arrived just before 7pm and could see the place we needed to be from the exit off the interstate. A quick stop for fuel and a bite and we hit the gravel. Three hours later and 4 miles as the crow flies, my hands were sore from gripping the wheel and I was thanking the lord nobody was coming down the trail or one of us was headed 200’ down the near vertical slope that was within inches of tires for most of the last leg. Long story short and many scratches later, we arrived at what was going to be our campsite.

LESSON: If you are going to a new place and there are unimproved roads to get there, it might not be the best policy to arrive after dark. I don’t care how many maps you have or what you have saved from OnX, when it is pitch black out and your headlights are sweeping, it is tough to know which “road” you are actually on… particularly at “Y’s” when both roads parallel each other for awhile.

Set up the tent and cots enough to sleep and wife goes out of the tent and catches a pair of eyes looking back at her about 50 yards away. I pop out and they are glowing, then disappear, then back again. Could be the exhaustion, could be not living in bear country, but the wife is convinced it is a bear. Long story short, despite the fact it ended up being a moo cow, she slept in the truck the rest of the trip. Got up after daylight and started walking. Yadda, yadda, yadda, came up on two cow elk in a drainage, but being the first afternoon, I didn’t want to take a cow… Boom, the bull busts out about 40 yards above them. Seemed like a smaller 5 or 6 pt. How could I not tell? There is something called oakbrush. For me, oak brush + archery = no Bueno. We hunted the next morning and had a pow wow about this oakbrush and decided to set out for our back up option.

LESSON: Seems like common sense, but its probably a good idea to evaluate the vegetation in the area. I’ve hunted meadows, high desert, big mountains, hills, blow down, but oakbrush was worse than being 8’ in the air balancing on trunks 100 yards into a pine beetle blowdown.

We moved to our back up spot about 40 miles away and behold just as we were about to head up the mountain, while still on a county gravel road, my wife goes, I think we have a flat tire. I said no way Jose, can’t be true. She said, I think I hear the air coming out. Now the windows were down and we were on gravel… there is no way she heard that… ESPECIALLY cause she can’t hear me when I say something from 5’ away. 100 yards down the road and the DING, the low pressure light goes on. Luckily, I learned my lesson from the last trip, swung into a church parking lot and pulled a “real spare tire” out of the back and we were back on the road in under 10 minutes. I will summarize the rest only to prove a point. We were hunting the 3rd week in Colorado. I have no idea what the hunting pressure is during muzzleloader, but over the next 4 days, we moved the truck and camp 7 times. I called in two different hunters, which means my calling is greatly improved OR they were just as desperate as we were to locate anything that sounded like an elk. We did finally find some bugles and elk on the last afternoon, but they were too far up the mountain to chase before dark. My wife’s knee blew up like a balloon on the way down that night and that was the end of the trip.

LESSON: Although we left elk to find elk, having a back up spot (or 2) is a good idea and can save a trip if your first choice doesn’t work out. Did we move too much and miss elk in all those spots or was it a good play to keep moving? I think the answer would be different if we didn’t locate those bulls on the last day, but I would say make a commitment to a spot for a set amount of time. If you dedicate 2 hours or 2 days, know that you did the research and chose those spots for a reason and make sure you put in the effort to exhaust them before moving on. Conversely, if there are no elk where you are, it doesn’t matter how many miles you put on the boots or how many hours you spend behind the glass. Obviously, this changes for locals or people that have more than a week to hunt.

Although this second trip was far less eventful from an animal perspective, the beauty of the changing colors on the aspens mixed in with the pines and the elevation with the river was one of the most beautiful places I have ever been. The near-death drive up, the moo cow incident is a classic to tell, the runnin and gunnin, and the struggle are just fantastic memories. It was an adventure that I will never forget and wouldn’t trade for anything.
 
I loved your write-ups, Joe- thank you for taking the time to share your experiences, sounds like an adventure for sure.
 
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