For sure too many ram permits. The 70 ewe tags in 680 is also disturbing.
‘22 + ‘23 MT Horn Measurements
- Thread starter Labman
- Start date
That just blows me away. We have zero ewe tags in Idaho
Jesus. Never noticed that. I couldn't kill one. mtmuley
sacountry
Well-known member
That toad went 186"+ to a guy named John Davidson, an NR that apparently went unguided. Impressive.
As should MT, but we have to have “opportunity” here. I see they actually decreased the ewe tags in 482 from 40 last year to 5 this year.
I like it! Let us know what you find…..curious minds want to know!
OK, I just spoke with the famous sheep bio in R5 and got the skinny on this head. He was very surprised that it ended up in the report. His first question was "How the heck did you find out about that?"
Turns out some fella in Musselshell county died last year and his family found an ancient sheep head on a plaque in his possessions. The family brought it in to get plugged so they could feel better about keeping the thing legally. He estimated that between what the family told him and the name of the taxidermist on the plaque that the head dated back to the 1930's and came from Western MT, likely in the Kalispell area.
As he rightfully pointed out, Musselshell County isn't exactly sheep country. Someone at FWP decided to report it as being taken in the county where the house was for some reason.
Crazy story for sure. Thanks for getting to the bottom of it!
It’s pretty frustrating seeing the state killing that many ewes every year instead of transplanting sheep in suitable sheep habitat in Eastern MT.
I just don’t get it either. If you add up all the ewes shot out there in the last 10yrs it would make you sick.
WanderWoman
Well-known member
If you add up all the sheep we’ve lost to all-age die-offs, and the lambs born but not recruited in the years after these events, you should get sick.
Montana uses ewe harvest to keep sheep numbers well below carrying capacity to try and prevent these disastrous events. Ewe harvest also provides (trigger alert—about to use the “O” word) opportunity for hunters who may never otherwise get to pursue sheep. But that’s secondary to trying to maintain a healthy population and avoid disease outbreaks.
Central and eastern MT have plenty of places with adequate and potential sheep habitat, but these places are riddled with issues as to why FWP can’t attempt to establish new populations there, at least at the moment. Examples: domestic sheep operations, hobby farms, landowner tolerance (yes there are some areas where landowners don’t want wild sheep), access issues and lack of access where/when a sheep population gets established, among others. FWP took a calculated risk with the Little Belts reintroduction, using Breaks sheep, and that has proven challenging to date.
Sheep are a fascinating and mysterious creature and among the very few which MT has tried to bring “back from the brink” but so far, hasn’t been successful in filling up historic habitat or reaching historic abundance. It’s a real shame, but not for lack of trying. Hope that’s helpful.
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BrowningCitori
Well-known member
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- Oct 23, 2023
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- 79
Very well said. If you have tracked the number of bighorn sheep herds in MT that have basically disappeared after growing to huge numbers and then getting disease because they are over carrying capacity it would blow your mind. Unfortunately, this animal is very susceptible to several diseases and once they enter a herd the area never seems to recover.
longrunner
Member
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- Mar 2, 2019
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- 73
As to the ewe harvest, Nevada has had some ewe hunts in units that have known persistent disease issues (pneumonia). They want to keep densities lower to prevent transmission/outbreaks. Since these sheep are known to be diseased, they don't want to move them and cause issues elsewhere. If the sheep are healthy, absolutely move then if it can be done. That brings up another issue in that many of the "easy" relocations have been done. Even if there is good BHS habitat, but its in close proximity to domestic sheep allotments or multiple hobby farms that might have domestic sheep or goats, it's a non starter project due to potential disease issues.
I’m not convinced it’s “over carrying capacity” as in the number of animals the habitat can support. As herds grow, young rams in particular will foray from their core herd home range, where they can interact with domestic sheep and bring pathogens back to their herd. I am sometimes skeptical of claims of a die-off with "no contact with domestic sheep." While that may very well be possible, we rarely have the data to back up an absolute claim like that. It's more accurate to say no known contact.
I am currently in the process of writing up a foray event I was able to document through multiple observations by several different people over the course of this fall, most of whom had no idea they were documenting a piece of a pretty cool puzzle. Unlike most forays that are documented via GPS collar, this one was made possible by the ram's propensity for the yellow line of the highway. Two thing are amazing: 1) he wasn't hit by a car (at least that we are aware), and 2) I only got 6 reports of him over the course of 70 days. I received 4 reports of him leaving his core herd home range, the first being on August 27 when he was already 14 miles from mapped bighorn range. The 4th "leaving" point was on September 18. He was still on the highway, 97 miles from the August 27 location. He was next seen on Oct. 23 back near the 3rd location from Sept. 9. Finally, he was observed on Nov. 4, heading back home, only a few miles from the Sept. 3 observation. Who knows if he made it all the way back. Who knows what he encountered along his journey. Who knows what he might have taken back with him. We tend to grossly underestimate the way these animals move across the landscape. Major tangent unrelated to the thread subject over.
Yellowstone Breaks
I think this is when they changed the hotline to say it was closed but they didn’t update the online quota status and the hunter didn’t know the unit was closed.(incompetence)
There are rams on public during season in different areas in spite of fwp.
We aren’t even trying.
