2013 App Season

[BlakeA]

Hey guys,

First off I just want to say WOW.....lots of great info on these threads and there seems to be alot of great people as well! After reading many threads/posts I am sort of relieved to find out there are alot of others out there who share the same obsessions/addictions/craziness as myself haha.

I'm currently 26 yrs old and have lived in North Dakota all my life. I'm kicking myself that I didn't get into the points game at a younger age but it's never too late to start and things happen for reasons! I have been applying in Montana, South Dakota, and Colorado for the past 3 years building points for Deer and Elk. Up until recently I hadn't really put alot of thought into applying/building points in any other states but now after hunting elk the past 3 years I am 150% interested and would love to plan some cool hunts for later on in my life. Although my true passion is bow hunting, I love rifle hunts for all species as well but know those tags a drastically harder to get. The hunts that I am interested in involve Elk/Deer/Antelope. I have zero interest in sheep hunts. I will ONLY hunt public land and absolutely refuse to have a guide or shoot anything on private land. I, like most of you fellow DIYers prefer back country and remote spots where the playing field is completely level and there are absolutely no advantages. Just you and the unknown. I'm definately not one to want to build points for 20 years and hold out for "Premiuim" units/tags. Here is what I will be buying points for this season:

Arizona- Elk/Deer
SD- Deer
Wyoming- Elk/Deer
Colorado- Deer

I will be applying for and planning hunts for :

Montana- Elk/Deer
Wyoming- Antelope

My main question is this....At my age (26) and the way the point creep is already starting to show in alot of states is it really worth buying points and stamps/licsenses in UT and NV? I'm not interested in Antelope hunting either of those states just strictly Deer/Elk with a bow preferably. Also, is it worth building pts in CO for Elk or just hunting with OTC tags for archery? Keep in mind I'm more of a hunt every 4-8 years rather than putting in for extreme blue chip units that are 15+. I would rather do many hunts in my lifetime than a select few for unguarenteed "trophy reasons". If any of you have hunted Nevada or Utah would you please give some honest opinions on what you would do if you were in my position or even advice on some things you would have done differently? What states/hunts that require points are MUST DO's in your eyes? Thanks alot for the help it is very much appreciated!!! ………Is it Elk season yet??!

 

[WapitiBob]

You should be fine in UT if you apply for the mid tier elk units. I drew fishlake archery with 5. Look at their odds pages and get a feel for the point pools ahead of you and pick those units where they clear out at a decent level.
You'll be OK with Az if you pick units from 4-7, early archery or many of the late Elk hunts.
Again, pull up the draw odds reports and look them over.

 

[Papa-Zulu]

I drew two Nevada mule deer buck permits and one elk permit during the last 20 years, and would highly recommend applying in that state. You don't want to wait until you are old and doddering (like me!) before applying. Do it now if you can afford it!

I was born and raised in Jamestown. My great-grandparents homesteaded near Solen in 1901. Where are you from?

 

[BlakeA]

Thanks for your info and advice Bob I really appreciate it! Good luck to you in 13'

 

[BlakeA]

Zulu,

Were all of your hunts archery? Premium or general type tags?

Very cool! I've lived in Minot my whole life. I love ND but it is definitely not the western hunters paradise haha...I started hunting the badlands religiously at a young age and thats where I spend all my time when hunting in ND.

 

[Papa-Zulu]

Bone Collector: All were rifle hunts, and all draw tags. Also shot a 10-year-old desert bighorn in Nevada last month after 18 years of applying. I used to hunt the Missouri River Grasslands north of Marmath when I was a teenager in the '60s and in the early '70s...wonderful country. Good luck with your applications!

 

[BlakeA]

Zulu,

That is wild! I spend ALOT of time by Marmath! It would be cool to hear some stories about your hunts back then! Very few people hunted the badlands during that time frame so I can't imagine how desolate it must have been out there! That would have been awesome.

Congrats on your tags/hunts in NV!! That sounds awesome. You have me seriously considering it! I just wasn't sure if it would be worth the 200$ a year if I'm not wanting to play the 15-20 year points game. I guess I just wanted to get some input on whether or not the non "premuim/blue chip" unit tags are really worth it and provide a guy with a decent hunt. Thanks again for your input and advice I really appreciate it!!

 

[Zim]

"I'm currently 26 yrs old and have lived in North Dakota all my life. I'm kicking myself that I didn't get into the points game at a younger age "

Hahaha I guess everything is relative. I got in the point game at age 38. In the last 15 years I drew some of the best of the best hunts in many states. However, the rules have changed. Paper applications became web based and app numbers exploded. But the number one problem is point devaluation by sleazy politicians. In my 15 years, only 2 of the 10 states I bought points in did not morph their rules to cheapen previously sold points in favor of new blood money. The pinnacle was reached by the state of Maine who began selling ten packs of points for $50, all you want! Although they did go back in 2011 and restored a bit of value, but not much. See my post on the topic: http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=15&threadid=415833&MESSAGES=19&FF=15 Make sure to read the legislator's comments at the end to give you an idea of the ignorant and self-serving leaders making these decisions. You are putting your money in these people's hands.

Just be aware if you are going to get in these point games it's akin to getting married. You are guaranteed absolutely nothing. Your wife can quit her job and the state will attach the parasite to you to avoid paying welfare. You can buy 10 points in 10 years and the state can totally trash your points by taking the tag you want and auctioning it off, or sell 10 packs to attract newbie hunter money. Happens somewhere every year.

Given the lack of ethics in point games, my best advice is don't build points for the "glory" units that take 10-20 points. Target hunts in states in the 2-5 point low to mid tier units you can draw more frequently and get to learn better.

I respect other's opinions, but if I were starting from ground zero, there's no way I'd invest my dollars in Utah. Just study the odds. They turned their system into a Powerball lottery odds game due to a ploriferation of auction tags. In Nevada they expand the raffle cancer slowly each year, depleting the resource, but I think there is enough value to invest there. Arizona beats all else. They are one of the only two I mention that have not cheapened their points. They are good to NR's.

Just remember, let the buyer beware.

 

[Flatrock]

Another fellow North Dakotan, welcome!

One thing to keep in mind about Nevada is that if you draw an elk tag, you have to wait 10 years before you can reapply. Even for a young guy, you would have to be very lucky to draw more than 2-3 tags in a lifetime. Except for a couple units, drawing ANY elk tag in Nevada in under 10 years is going to require a lot of luck, even archery. They have some GIANT'S there though so it would be fun to have a chance to hunt there...

 

[BlakeA]

Zim,

Thanks alot for your input and advice!! Utah does seem to have some question marks in my eyes I guess. If I'm understanding it correctly you have to buy the habitat stamp/license for $65 but then it's 10$ per point for each specie and each tag type which is 3-4 types each for elk/deer. Have you archery elk hunted in CO? Is it worth buying points for units that take 3-5 years to draw or is a guy fine with OTC archery units? Do those easier to draw elk units produce THAT much better hunt than an OTC? Thanks again for all your advice/help! Hopefully someday I will be able to do some of the hunts you have enjoyed!

 

[BlakeA]

VDO84,

Which part of the state are you from? I think I will start the game in NV. I've yet to read about a negative experience for an NR as far as the hunts go. Even if I only draw a few tags there that would be very cool. I'm all about new adventures and hopefully by the time I draw a tag I will have become a pretty good elk hunter so I can hold out for a bigger bull knowing that I won't be doing many hunts there very often! Do you apply/build points in alot of states as well? What species are your favorite to hunt? Thanks for your help/advice!

 

[Papa-Zulu]

I have never applied in Arizona after 1976 because I had the incredible luck of drawing a desert bighorn tag on my very first application--once-in-a-lifetime permit! I was too damned penniless to buy the NR license and apply for elk and mule deer after that. But I agree with Zim--it is a top state to apply for at your young age. Also, Nevada is very good. Your points are squared, which gives you an enormous advantage as time goes on. Gads, at age 26 you probably could draw everything you wanted during your hunting career! If you can afford it, I recommend to go for it!

 

[JohnCushman]

Zim,

Thanks alot for your input and advice!! Utah does seem to have some question marks in my eyes I guess. If I'm understanding it correctly you have to buy the habitat stamp/license for $65 but then it's 10$ per point for each specie and each tag type which is 3-4 types each for elk/deer. Have you archery elk hunted in CO? Is it worth buying points for units that take 3-5 years to draw or is a guy fine with OTC archery units? Do those easier to draw elk units produce THAT much better hunt than an OTC? Thanks again for all your advice/help! Hopefully someday I will be able to do some of the hunts you have enjoyed!

Colorado has some excellent opportinities in the OTC units. You could add a couple days before the start of archery elk and grab an OTC antelope tag for archery. My advice is to get your archery hunting done early before muzzleloader season starts.

 

[Zim]

Zim,

Thanks alot for your input and advice!! Utah does seem to have some question marks in my eyes I guess. If I'm understanding it correctly you have to buy the habitat stamp/license for $65 but then it's 10$ per point for each specie and each tag type which is 3-4 types each for elk/deer. Have you archery elk hunted in CO? Is it worth buying points for units that take 3-5 years to draw or is a guy fine with OTC archery units? Do those easier to draw elk units produce THAT much better hunt than an OTC? Thanks again for all your advice/help! Hopefully someday I will be able to do some of the hunts you have enjoyed!

Yes, Colorado elk points are well worth it but only to the 3/4 point level. My advice is to pick a 3/4 point unit you like, and get to know it very well, hunting multiple times. The ROI for anything past 4 points is slim to none. Similar for deer. But if you archery hunt I'd pick a 1/2 point high mountain deer hunt and learn the unit.

As far as Utah, I am done there if and when I can ever draw the lone remaining Pauns archery deer tag. They have clearly shown their committment to throwing nonresidents under the bus in favor of wealth tags. I drew a premium elk tag my first try in 1997. Then SFW took over, the best tags dried up, and the draw odds went absolutely astronomical. Some of the worst in the entire west. Study them and learn. Big waste of money now.

I was delighted to help shut them down in Arizona. Last March when they tried to steal 350 of the best trophy tags. I was granted 3 TV interviws which exposed SFW's political payoffs and the legislator pulled support of his own bill, right on TV! Victory for the North American Model for Wildlife Conservation.

 

[BlakeA]

Zulu,

Wow that is awesome that you drew that sheep tag on the first try!! Thank you again for the info it has helped me out alot!

John,
Thanks for your advice on CO! Never thought about antelope there and didn't know there was OTC
archery tags available! Is there decent amounts of public land in goat country or is CO kinda ckeckerboard?

Zim,

That is both funny and very cool you were able to shut them down in AZ haha. I have pretty much scratched UT off of my list. Maybe if they change some things down the road (doubt it) I will reconsider. Thanks for the info on CO it was EXACTLY what I was looking for as far as answers/input!! Thanks again very appreciated

 

[Flatrock]

VDO84,

Which part of the state are you from? I think I will start the game in NV. I've yet to read about a negative experience for an NR as far as the hunts go. Even if I only draw a few tags there that would be very cool. I'm all about new adventures and hopefully by the time I draw a tag I will have become a pretty good elk hunter so I can hold out for a bigger bull knowing that I won't be doing many hunts there very often! Do you apply/build points in alot of states as well? What species are your favorite to hunt? Thanks for your help/advice!

I grew up to the west of you. Out where the oil companies are doing their best to destroy the country and our way of life.

I'm applying in a few states and the ones I do, I pretty much apply for everything. I know you said you don't have any desire to hunt sheep, but if you start applying in a state like the AZ, it is only an extra $7.50 to apply for sheep too. Just something to think about.

I haven't hunted CO, but I also think it would be worthwhile to build points. I would rather have 2 points and hunt a unit with 100 tags versus who knows how many in an OTC unit.

If you start in AZ, be sure to apply soon as the deadline isn't too far away.

This is a great site and everyone is very helpful. Good luck to you!

 

[BlakeA]

VDO84,

It makes me sick at what's going on out west and even around Minot(though not as bad)....they could care less about the residents of our state and the wildlife. Some parts of the badlands will.never be the same and I'm sick of hearing poaching stories of our already decimated antelope numbers. Hopefully things get better....thanks for the help man good luck to you as well!!

 

[JohnCushman]

There's alot of good public land to hunt antelope in. I hunt in the Comanchee Grasslands and it's public except for some private areas, but they are well marked.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

There's alot of good public land to hunt antelope in. I hunt in the Comanchee Grasslands and it's public except for some private areas, but they are well marked.

A few rattlesnakes in that area?

 

[BlakeA]

John,

Very cool I will have to look into that! CO seems like a great state to hunt in especially with the OTC opportunities for an NR. Thanks for your advice/help! Good luck to you this app season!

JLS,

Rattlesnakes don't bother me as I've had to deal with them for many years.....just gotta make sure you carry a good kit and multiple shots of whiskey while your waiting for help haha