Who is afraid of Rush Limbaugh

[BrentD]

Yeah, really.

Maybe no one will find this amusing or interesting, but I found a seminar today by Chris Wilmers of UC-Santa Cruz to be both.

I did not know of his work before this but it has some interesting aspects. He has been hanging very high end telemetry gear on big cats (mt. lions and leopards) and seeing what they do energetically and otherwise.

As part of a larger project, he did some audio playbacks to lions in the wild over their own kills. He tracked quite a few lions in California (remember CA has had no mountain lion hunting for multiple generations of lions, and that is important here). When the GPS collars indicate that a cat has made a kill, he waits for the cat to leave and then finds the kills and plants a few speakers around it with a video camera.

When the cat comes back, he plays different sounds. Things like really loud frog calls have no effect on the cat's feeding. Dogs barking have no effects either. But you cannot believe how fast a cat leaps out of the picture frame from even the first syllable of a Rush Limbaugh radio show. It is astonishing.

You may or may not be surprised that it leaves just as rapidly, even if far leftists, or GDI moderates are broadcast in the same way - it wasn't really about Rush after all. But truly these cats are scared of people - although they have not been hunted in early 30 yrs now.

There were a lot of other interesting tidbits. He finds an amazing amount of cats are traveling in very dense suburban/urban neighborhoods. One even killed a deer with a few meters of his office window. But just as interesting, such urban/suburban lions are also killing a lot MORE deer because they spend less time, much less time, feeding on each kill that they make. Looks like lions, not archers may be the solution to urban deer problems

He was really interested in the energetics of lion behavior in anthropogenic and more natural habitats and discovering how much additional energy the lions spend where human activity is high. It was quite a bit. Overall, an interesting talk with lots of intriguing details, but now I know the best defense against lion attack is a Rush podcast on my cell phone...

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Thats hilarious....but seriously it Sounds like the guy is getting some cool data. I'll have to check him out.

 

[Sawtooth]

I must be part lion, because hearing the sound of political pundits from either end of the political spectrum will cause me to flee in a hurry as well. I also find it harder to digest my food in large urban settings.

 

[Doublecluck]

Couple fun facts. More mountain lions are killed now thru depredation permits and by fish and wildlife in human lion conflicts per year than were killed per year when legal hunting was allowed. Just because guys in camo aren’t chasing them a couple months a year don’t mean they fear humans less.

The zone I grew up hunting was roughly 4000 sq miles. The mule deer population is as low as 1500 and as high as 5000 and mainly correlates to fire and precipitation aka browse/cover/habitat. The mountain lion population is 30-50 cats in that 4000 sq miles. 1 deer per lion per 6-12 days. Average it at 9 days and that’s 40 deer per year per cat or between 1200 and 2000 deer per year. 25-75+% of the population depending on the year? Of course they travel close to suburban/urban areas. There are not enough deer in the habitat to support the predator population. They have to supplement with livestock, pets and the occasional jogger.

California is so liberal even the wildlife is triggered by conservative talk. Lol.

 

[BrentD]

Actually, there are PLENTY of deer for them in suburbia. That was also part of his point.

 

[theat]

Couple fun facts. More mountain lions are killed now thru depredation permits and by fish and wildlife in human lion conflicts per year than were killed per year when legal hunting was allowed. Just because guys in camo aren’t chasing them a couple months a year don’t mean they fear humans more or less.

I have been hearing this for years, but can never seem to find any actual evidence. I am definitely pro lion hunting, I have shot two myself, and don't agree with emotional based bans on hunting them. Everything I have read so far makes it sound like less lions are being killed. More lions are definitely being killed with depredation permits than before the ban, but not total lions including hunting and depredation permits. At least that is what everything I have read claims that actually has any kind of sources and numbers. Also find it interesting that Gov Ronald Reagan signed a moratorium on lion hunting back in 1972 way before prop 117 was passed to permenatly ban lion hunting.


"But the numbers of cats killed under the depredation permit system is still lower than the hunting season proposed before Proposition 117’s passage.

Sport hunting for mountain lions hasn’t been allowed in California since Gov. Ronald Reagan signed a moratorium in 1972. The moratorium followed a century in which lions – like wolves – were regarded mainly as a nuisance to ranchers. More than 12,400 mountain lions were killed between 1907 and 1963 and turned in for bounties, according to the Mountain Lion Foundation.

In the late 1980s, state officials had proposed reopening a hunting season allowing the hunting of 190 lions a year – a move that prompted the anti-hunting initiative.

Proposition 117’s advocates say that the numbers of mountain lions hunted in California could have been much higher than 190, since the state also would have continued issuing depredation permits.

In neighboring Oregon, hunters killed 268 cougars last year in the state’s lion hunting season – that’s on top of the 151 that were killed for preying on livestock. That state estimates its mountain lion population is slightly larger than California’s – around 6,400 animals.

The Bee’s analysis of permit data shows that two-thirds of the depredation permits since 1973 were issued for cougars that preyed on sheep and goats. Attacks on cattle accounted for just 10 percent; dogs and cats, 8 percent.

Only around 45 percent of the permits issued resulted in kills. State officials say most lions were killed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Wildlife Services program working on behalf of residents whose livestock had been attacked. The controversial agency employs professional trappers, houndsmen and sharpshooters who kill free of charge."

California voters banned mountain lion hunting three decades ago, but the killing never stopped

A Sacramento Bee investigation reveals that scores of mountain lions are still being killed each year under Proposition 117, the ballot initiative voters approved in 1990 that banned cougar hunting.

www.sacbee.com

 

[Doublecluck]

I have been hearing this for years, but can never seem to find any actual evidence. I am definitely pro lion hunting, I have shot two myself, and don't agree with emotional based bans on hunting them. Everything I have read so far makes it sound like less lions are being killed. More lions are definitely being killed with depredation permits than before the ban, but not total lions including hunting and depredation permits. At least that is what everything I have read claims that actually has any kind of sources and numbers. Also find it interesting that Gov Ronald Reagan signed a moratorium on lion hunting back in 1972 way before prop 117 was passed to permenatly ban lion hunting.


"But the numbers of cats killed under the depredation permit system is still lower than the hunting season proposed before Proposition 117’s passage.

Sport hunting for mountain lions hasn’t been allowed in California since Gov. Ronald Reagan signed a moratorium in 1972. The moratorium followed a century in which lions – like wolves – were regarded mainly as a nuisance to ranchers. More than 12,400 mountain lions were killed between 1907 and 1963 and turned in for bounties, according to the Mountain Lion Foundation.

In the late 1980s, state officials had proposed reopening a hunting season allowing the hunting of 190 lions a year – a move that prompted the anti-hunting initiative.

Proposition 117’s advocates say that the numbers of mountain lions hunted in California could have been much higher than 190, since the state also would have continued issuing depredation permits.

In neighboring Oregon, hunters killed 268 cougars last year in the state’s lion hunting season – that’s on top of the 151 that were killed for preying on livestock. That state estimates its mountain lion population is slightly larger than California’s – around 6,400 animals.

The Bee’s analysis of permit data shows that two-thirds of the depredation permits since 1973 were issued for cougars that preyed on sheep and goats. Attacks on cattle accounted for just 10 percent; dogs and cats, 8 percent.

Only around 45 percent of the permits issued resulted in kills. State officials say most lions were killed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Wildlife Services program working on behalf of residents whose livestock had been attacked. The controversial agency employs professional trappers, houndsmen and sharpshooters who kill free of charge."

California voters banned mountain lion hunting three decades ago, but the killing never stopped

A Sacramento Bee investigation reveals that scores of mountain lions are still being killed each year under Proposition 117, the ballot initiative voters approved in 1990 that banned cougar hunting.

www.sacbee.com

The only regulated lion season California had was in 71-72 when something like 120 were killed between the 2 years. A proposed season with a quota of 190 does not mean 190 would have been killed. Between depredation permits and what F&W officers kill, the number of actual kills now exceeds 150 some years. Add in SSS and it’s likely more.

My point was however that just because hunters aren’t shooting at them and hounds aren’t chasing them doesn’t mean they have no reason to fear humans.

 

[BrentD]

The only regulated lion season California had was in 71-72 when something like 120 were killed. A proposed season with a quota of 190 does not mean 190 would have been killed. Between depredation permits and what F&W officers kill, the number now exceeds 200 per year from what I understand.

My point was however that just because hunters aren’t shooting at them and hounds aren’t chasing them doesn’t mean they have no reason to fear humans.

Obviously, the data bare that out. However, the mantra on the hunting fora is that people get killed because they "lose their fear of humans" and therefore hunters save lives. I call BS on that.

Meanwhile, I doubt that many of the lions he tests ever see a depredations officer. Sort of curious, that.

He was an interesting person to talk to for almost an hour before his seminar.

 

[Doublecluck]

Obviously, the data bare that out. However, the mantra on the hunting fora is that people get killed because they "lose their fear of humans" and therefore hunters save lives. I call BS on that.

Meanwhile, I doubt that many of the lions he tests ever see a depredations officer. Sort of curious, that.

He was an interesting person to talk to for almost an hour before his seminar.

Obviously, the data bare that out. However, the mantra on the hunting fora is that people get killed because they "lose their fear of humans" and therefore hunters save lives. I call BS on that.

Meanwhile, I doubt that many of the lions he tests ever see a depredations officer. Sort of curious, that.

He was an interesting person to talk to for almost an hour before his seminar.

I would agree about the myth as far as hunting them saving human lives.

I would argue however among other things that the populations would be healthier and more genetically diverse if hunting was allowed. These animals are territorial and many habitats are isolated by roads and development. It’s well documented that there are multiple areas where lack of genetic diversity is having impacts on the overall health of the population. If some of those lions were killed thru hunting it’s possible that other lions could move in to that terrritory thru wildlife corridors or even be relocated to those areas by F&G

It’s not that they have lost the fear of humans, there are simply lots of humans and lots of cats. Conflicts are bound to occur. California has a higher population density of lions than many other western states and wilderness areas where humans and development are little to none.

Have you ever seen a mountain lion in Southern California in the wild? I would not describe the ones I have seen as having enough of anything to eat. Usually when your ribs show thru your fur it’s a good indicator you could use a little more protein.

 

[BrentD]

I can't say I've ever seen a California mountain lion in person. On the other hand, the one in the video that disliked Rush so much seemed to share his rather corpulent body size with his nemesis.

 

[BigHornRam]

This cat picture from nat geo hanging out above Los Angeles looks well fed. Probably dined well on poodles.

 

[88man]

What was or is the logic behind the ban on lion hunting??

 

[BrentD]

Public preference. Not really the issue here however.