Ukraine / Russia

nick87 said:
Thats good, but the fact there was a strike on a children's hospital whether zero children wounded or 10,000 killed its still the same principle. I'm sure you agree I'm just pointing out the obvious.
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Agreed. When does that trigger Nato? When does the humanitarian impacts step over the line of allowable concessions in life? Does it ever?
 
I listened to a podcast today by two hawkish individuals who made an interesting point that those who grew up during the cold war have a living history of being an American in an America that calls bluffs, and even though strategic, took great risks against a nuclear competitor.

I thought that was interesting, as I have maybe noticed that those older than me seem more amenable to getting more involved in Ukraine - to being more confrontational with Russia - than those my age. I am 37, and though I was born in West Germany, I really don't have memories of the Cold War. Or any situation for that matter where we were genuinely competing for the predominant ideology of the world. One of their points was that that is really not happening now either. Russia isn't trying to spread communism. They are chiefly, at this point, a bad actor nation.

I read another interesting piece where the author's position was that we should resume above ground nuclear tests. Not in the name of dick swinging, but so the populace at large can see what hunting with one in the chamber might look like in 4K. There seems to be a nonchalance regarding nukes in a lot of the discourse that I don't agree with, but I fully admit I am just a Montanan who doesn't understand these things and don't claim to be right or have insight. I just think there is an overestimation that the fact that the 20th century didn't include mushroom clouds is a meaningful signal that mushroom clouds aren't likely to happen. How much of it was luck?

Now, we see that the power to Chernobyl is in jeopardy. The diesel generators running have 48 hours of fuel, and according to Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba, if the diesel runs out, radiation leaks are imminent. How much of that is hyperbole? Maybe a statement to motivate a ceasefire or further intervention? I really don't know.

 
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Nameless Range said:
I listened to a podcast today by two hawkish individuals who made an interesting point that those who grew up during the cold war have a living history of being an American in an America that calls bluffs, and even though strategic, took great risks against a nuclear competitor.

I thought that was interesting, as I have maybe noticed that those older than me seem more amenable to getting more involved in Ukraine - to being more confrontational with Russia - than those my age. I am 37, and though I was born in West Germany, I really don't have memories of the Cold War. Or any situation for that matter where we were genuinely competing for the predominant ideology of the world. One of their points was that that is really not happening now either. Russia isn't trying to spread communism. They are chiefly, at this point, a bad actor nation.

I read another interesting piece where the author's position was that we should resume above ground nuclear tests. Not in the name of dick swinging, but so the populace at large can see what hunting with one in the chamber might look like in 4K. There seems to be a nonchalance regarding nukes in a lot of the discourse that I don't agree with, but I fully admit I am just a Montanan who doesn't understand these things and don't claim to be right or have insight. I just think there is an overestimation that the fact that the 20th century didn't include mushroom clouds is a meaningful signal that mushroom clouds aren't likely to happen. How much of it was luck?

Now, we see that the power to Chernobyl is in jeopardy. The diesel generators running have 48 hours of fuel, and according to Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba, if the diesel runs out, radiation leaks are imminent. How much of that is hyperbole? Maybe a statement to motivate a ceasefire or further intervention? I really don't know.

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1646862532598.png

To your first point. I find myself getting more hawkish as I get older and we're about the same age. For me personally, and this is totally irrational and borderline racist I admit, it's is increasingly difficult to watch these Ukrainian families and in particular the children, that look just like mine, continue to be attacked. It "hits too close to home" even if it isn't anywhere near my home and in fact, intervention will only bring it closer to home. I would also be lying if I didn't add that Zelensky has made me want to support them more.
 
Speaking as an aging boomer. My father was serving in the Air Force until I was in the 8th grade. I was a 7th grader during the Cuban missile crisis. More than one of the Air Bases my father was stationed had nuclear bombs.

I have a fairly good memory of a close call with a mishap involving a nuclear bomb on the Air base we were at. I could only guess how many sonic booms I heard as a child, certainly hundreds. So it's safe to say that I am a child of the cold war.

My younger brother earned a PHD in Physical Chemistry. His education did not get him the college professor career he hoped for but it did get him a stint designing nuclear weapons for Uncle Sam. He met/knew many of the original designers of the nuclear bomb, including Edward Teller. At some point he could not square his conscience using his intellect to make such weapons possible. So he left and pursued a different career.

Much of what he worked on was highly classified so he never shared with me very much. He did tell me that between the old Soviet Union and the United States the explosive power of the nuclear weapons was equivalent to one foot of natural gas encircling the globe. He also told me that one US submarine could take out half of what's worth taking out in the old Soviet Union.

I don't think we ever want to know what a nuclear war looks like.
 
wllm1313 said:
NATO never... they aren't a member
UN peace keepers... never while Russia is a permanent member of security council
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That opened an interesting read! I'm curious what scenarios would have played out had Ukraine been a NATO member? Seems Spain and Luxemburg were prepared to offer "MAP" (Membership Action Plan) for Ukraine. Apparently there is no vote process within NATO. It's called, "Consensus decision-making" and requires all members to reach a unified agreement. I'd imagine IF Ukraine was a member of NATO it would potentially replay the standoff, held breath of the Cuban blockade(?).
neffa3 said:
I would also be lying if I didn't add that Zelensky has made me want to support them more.
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IMO, Zelenskyy's position as President from a non political background has been valuable for Ukraine's success. Not only to his own people but to the world. Had he been a common politician, I'm not so sure the world would be as emotionally driven towards support of Ukraine.
 
406dn said:
At some point he could not square his conscience using his intellect to make such weapons possible. So he left and pursued a different career.
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Did he become a spine surgeon? If so, I’ve worked with him on some med device design projects (if not, your brother isn’t the only one with that same path).
 
Treeshark said:
Did he become a spine surgeon? If so, I’ve worked with him on some med device design projects (if not, your brother isn’t the only one with that same path).
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No, but he did go into the medical field. He designed medical devices. He did a lot of work on blood glucose monitors. His dream was to find a way to accurately measure blood sugar without any blood drawn.

An aside years ago when Elizabeth Holmes was creating her Theranos black box, he and I were talking on the phone. I told him what she was saying she could do. He called it bogus. A few years later, we all knew she was a scam artist.
 
406dn said:
He called it bogus. A few years later, we all knew she was a scam artist.
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That is really interesting, not surprising that a guy with his level of knowledge would be able to see through her charade.

I have had the pleasure of working with a few guys in my career like your brother- literally smart enough to be able to do any job on the planet. I’ve always wondered what it would be like to go through a “day in the life” with a brain like that.
 
406dn said:
Speaking as an aging boomer. My father was serving in the Air Force until I was in the 8th grade. I was a 7th grader during the Cuban missile crisis. More than one of the Air Bases my father was stationed had nuclear bombs.

I have a fairly good memory of a close call with a mishap involving a nuclear bomb on the Air base we were at. I could only guess how many sonic booms I heard as a child, certainly hundreds. So it's safe to say that I am a child of the cold war.

My younger brother earned a PHD in Physical Chemistry. His education did not get him the college professor career he hoped for but it did get him a stint designing nuclear weapons for Uncle Sam. He met/knew many of the original designers of the nuclear bomb, including Edward Teller. At some point he could not square his conscience using his intellect to make such weapons possible. So he left and pursued a different career.
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My wife's grandfather taught physics at Michigan, and while involved in some hush-hush stuff, even though asked, refused to participate in the Manhattan Project for the same reasons as your brother.
 
nick87 said:
Thats good, but the fact there was a strike on a children's hospital whether zero children wounded or 10,000 killed its still the same principle. I'm sure you agree I'm just pointing out the obvious.
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In large scale urban combat it’s going to happen.. it is unfortunate but a reality.
 
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