throwing good app money after bad and repeat

[Khunter]

I learned a long time ago it would be better to have points and not need them, than to need them and not have them. I'd be buying points for the wife's dog if I thought I might need them some day.

LOL. I always say if they ever sell skunk preference points I am buying…just in case cuz ya never know…

 

[rogerthat]

Can’t thank you enough for the generous offer of support and help. Just so you know we are holding out for 210 typical or 250 non. I really want one that’s wide and heavy

That should be fairly easy. I have watched a lot of YouTube and follow some of the outfitters on social media. Bucks like that are all over out there

 

[Flynarrow]

Back in the early 60s I drew an Idaho archery goat permit on the first ever archery only hunt ever offered in Idaho.. There were 10 tags. I was the ONLY applicant. Yes...that was way before compounds made archery easy....and popular.....and before social media pumped OIL/trophy hunting. After that Idaho even had a couple of over the counter archery only goat areas. I hunted that too and never saw another hunter. Compounds certainly changed archery. Some of us still shoot with the same archery gear we did in the 60s....and it still works.

Fortunately I drew another Montana archery goat tag for the last time when I was 72 yo to hunt with with my trusty old stick bow. Was able to sit among goats at a natural mineral lick many days before the snow forced me to get serious. Never saw another hunter of any kind. Hope everyone has an opportunity to spend such time in such great country among these fantastic critters.

 

[TexanSam]

Lately, I've spent a lot of time researching the 25-40 year trends of most species across most the states. With the exception of elk, the trend is disturbing. Sheep, Shiras moose, mule deer, pronghorn (in all but NV), mountain goats, showing long-term trends (in most states) that scare the crap out of me. Not because of my need for a tag at this point in my life, but because I want those species to prosper long after I'm gone. That concerns me more than anything we argue about in the offseason.

There's a ton of work to do on the habitat conservation for all those species in all those states, even if I don't hunt them. I find myself in this interesting study of the human behaviors, including my own, as to why I/we seek or apply simple/inexpensive solutions to what are very complex habitat issues. I guess that effort to find the simplest solution is part of the human condition, even if it's as plain as day that the long-term future for hunting and wildlife is in the difficult/expensive work of habitat conservation and improvement; work that requires a decade or two to see the results.

I mean this out of pure curiosity, but wouldn't the best thing to do in this situation would be to still apply (or better yet buy points) so that it sends a little conservation money towards them while simultaneously showing game management agencies the interest that the public has in them?

I could just be naive here. I hardly apply for any "out-of-touch" species myself.

 

[BradA]

I apply for between 8-11 states depending on the year and commitments and plan on continuing maybe it will be dumb when I get older and look back on it or maybe it will pay off. In my mind if I draw one OIL tag in my lifetime than it will all be worth it and I can’t do that if I don’t try so I go all in applying for between 35-40 tags a year plus purchasing points for the ones I don’t apply for.

 

[brymoore]

I apply for between 8-11 states depending on the year and commitments and plan on continuing maybe it will be dumb when I get older and look back on it or maybe it will pay off. In my mind if I draw one OIL tag in my lifetime than it will all be worth it and I can’t do that if I don’t try so I go all in applying for between 35-40 tags a year plus purchasing points for the ones I don’t apply for.

How many years have you been applying this hard?

 

[BradA]

How many years have you been applying this hard?

Between 5-21 depending on the state

 

[Zim]

Can't blame ya, the point creep on AZ mule deer units last year was pretty eye opening.

Ya the Kaibab archery deer tag has been on point steroids fer sure of late. Hell it’s a mirror of WY region G now. From 1 point to 14 overnight! No question both are now grossly over-valued. I will be researching to burn my points in both states elsewhere in some unpublished units for a far better ROI.

 

[Khunter]

Back in the early 60s I drew an Idaho archery goat permit on the first ever archery only hunt ever offered in Idaho.. There were 10 tags. I was the ONLY applicant. Yes...that was way before compounds made archery easy....and popular.....and before social media pumped OIL/trophy hunting. After that Idaho even had a couple of over the counter archery only goat areas. I hunted that too and never saw another hunter. Compounds certainly changed archery. Some of us still shoot with the same archery gear we did in the 60s....and it still works.

Fortunately I drew another Montana archery goat tag for the last time when I was 72 yo to hunt with with my trusty old stick bow. Was able to sit among goats at a natural mineral lick many days before the snow forced me to get serious. Never saw another hunter of any kind. Hope everyone has an opportunity to spend such time in such great country among these fantastic critters.

We need photos!!!

 

[TheTone]

Ya the Kaibab archery deer tag has been on point steroids fer sure of late. Hell it’s a mirror of WY region G now. From 1 point to 14 overnight! No question both are now grossly over-valued. I will be researching to burn my points in both states elsewhere in some unpublished units for a far better ROI.

Has it really went that high? It’s still among the list of places I’ve considered dumping my points if for no other reason than a hunt in a cool area

 

[Zim]

Has it really went that high? It’s still among the list of places I’ve considered dumping my points if for no other reason than a hunt in a cool area

Hard to believe, huh? Yes it’s a cool area esp. on top in August/Sept, but hardly an OIL hunt. I’m up to 9 now w/loyalty & HE, but no way I’m waiting to 14+ to burn . Perfect example of the sheer madness caused by rampant social media.

This makes me cherish the 5 remaining preference based hunts I have coming even more. Those points will hold off the masses, and if not watered down, give me good hunts I can count on, rather than hopes & dreams newbies got today.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I mean this out of pure curiosity, but wouldn't the best thing to do in this situation would be to still apply (or better yet buy points) so that it sends a little conservation money towards them while simultaneously showing game management agencies the interest that the public has in them?

Why waste your money just so the government employees can say that they saw a sheep cough and now they will be killing them all from a helicopter to protect the resource ? lol

 

[BuzzH]

Why waste your money just so the government employees can say that they saw a sheep cough and now they will be killing them all from a helicopter to protect the resource ? lol

Interesting, I've done close to $200,000 worth of sheep hunts for about $8k because I applied.

Waste of money?

 

[okie archer]

Interesting, I've done close to $200,000 worth of sheep hunts for about $8k because I applied.

Waste of money?

Good for you. Your probably in the <2% of people that has drawn. For the remaining 98% that don't draw it is a waste of money. (Percentages are a guess)
For "most" everyone that didn't get in on the ground floor it will be a waste of money. Which is kinda the point of this thread.
Congrats on beating the odds but most of us won't.

 

[TheTone]

Why waste your money just so the government employees can say that they saw a sheep cough and now they will be killing them all from a helicopter to protect the resource ? lol

Hunting is conservation right? Always nice to see hunters are real supporters of people doing wildlife conservation work for a living.

 

[Shangobango]

I am late to the point game compared to many on here so when I started collecting some points a decade ago the writing was already starting to be placed on the wall as far as a the odds of ever pulling most of the OIL stuff and also a lot of the premium units for the deer, elk, and pronghorn.

All that to say every species/state I have points for I will draw a tag for at some point in time except for some of the MSG tags. Even with those I have some chance everytime I apply.

I have more Wyoming pronghorn points than I ever intended to have but there isn’t anything we can do about weather. Other than that I burn those babies on lower tier or middle of the road units. I like to hunt, not collect points.

 

[BuzzH]

Good for you. Your probably in the <2% of people that has drawn. For the remaining 98% that don't draw it is a waste of money. (Percentages are a guess)
For "most" everyone that didn't get in on the ground floor it will be a waste of money. Which is kinda the point of this thread.
Congrats on beating the odds but most of us won't.

Let's see...my Dad has drawn 3 moose permits in Montana and sheep, 1 moose tag in Wyoming. My brother has drawn moose and goat in Montana. I have drawn moose, goat, and sheep in Montana. Drawn 2 moose and a sheep tag in Wyoming.

I drew AZ desert sheep with a paltry 11 points. Drew an oryx in new Mexico with no points. Drew Alaska musk ox with no points.

Basic statistics will tell you applying for a long time for a lot of permits in a lot of states will get you tags.

I really hope more people quit applying, I love the quitters.

 

[seeth07]

Let's see...my Dad has drawn 3 moose permits in Montana and sheep, 1 moose tag in Wyoming. My brother has drawn moose and goat in Montana. I have drawn moose, goat, and sheep in Montana. Drawn 2 moose and a sheep tag in Wyoming.

I drew AZ desert sheep with a paltry 11 points. Drew an oryx in new Mexico with no points. Drew Alaska musk ox with no points.

Basic statistics will tell you applying for a long time for a lot of permits in a lot of states will get you tags.

I really hope more people quit applying, I love the quitters.

You are certainly right that if you apply for a lot of permits, you are going to get some good tags. However, it's not the same game and chances to get a lot of those tags as it was just even 5 years ago. Point being that if I person started from scratch next spring to try and start playing the game of getting OIL type hunt tags, they should pretty much go into it planning on it never happening and what they spend on the app fees they can pretty much expect to not see a return on it.

The game has changed so much in the last 5 to 10 years and it's only going to get worse.

 

[popeyoung12]

Many states msg tag draws are random.

 

[BuzzH]

You are certainly right that if you apply for a lot of permits, you are going to get some good tags. However, it's not the same game and chances to get a lot of those tags as it was just even 5 years ago. Point being that if I person started from scratch next spring to try and start playing the game of getting OIL type hunt tags, they should pretty much go into it planning on it never happening and what they spend on the app fees they can pretty much expect to not see a return on it.

The game has changed so much in the last 5 to 10 years and it's only going to get worse.

That's what I heard when I started applying in 1979.