"Now it's my turn!" -Federal circa 2025

[WVTXn]

So I guess the question is…
Does this innovation justify the expense?
Well that depends more on the individual not so much the innovation.
If, let’s say a plurality of individuals (adequate market share), buy enough rifles in this chamber….then it is here to stay.

Just my guess. I’d like to shoot one for sure. But I don’t need to buy it,
Yet

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Do the Rokslide guys have a woody for this? mtmuley

Seems to be poo pooed there and elsewhere more than here even.

 

[mtmuley]

Seems to be poo pooed there and elsewhere more than here even.

Surprising. Too big probly. mtmuley

 

[Elky Welky]

Does this innovation justify the expense?

They're testing it in the civilian market but this innovation was requested at the behest of the military, which gives it a very good chance of sticking around regardless of if the hunting community is willing to give up their '06s and .308s (cartridges that also started their lives as military rounds).

Big Caveat* IF the military adopts this. Currently the .277 Fury still has legs in that application. This was a good read today: https://mdttac.com/blog/7mm-backcountry-a-promising-caliber-with-potential-pitfalls/

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Now it's getting interesting.. 556 loaded in the steel casings with similar velocity increases. What's next?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

They're testing it in the civilian market but this innovation was requested at the behest of the military, which gives it a very good chance of sticking around regardless of if the hunting community is willing to give up their '06s and .308s (cartridges that also started their lives as military rounds).

Big Caveat* IF the military adopts this. Currently the .277 Fury still has legs in that application. This was a good read today: https://mdttac.com/blog/7mm-backcountry-a-promising-caliber-with-potential-pitfalls/

IMO, People have been putting WAY too much emphasis on military weapons solicitations recently. 277 fury won some competition and people are acting like its going to replace 556 nato across the military.. I'm curious if any soldiers are actually fielding that fury round now years later? 300 Norma got selected for some select unit's sniper rifles so people start saying 300 WM is out, norma is the future! Then some other group orders some sniper rifles in 300 PRC and rubes are exclaiming the 300 norma is dead cuz someone ordered 300 PRC.

It just seems like weapons have come so far with the number of options that its not going to ever be standardized again like it was when everything was 30-06 rifles and 45 pistols and SMGs or even the past 60 years with 556 has ruled most battle rifles.

6.5 Creedmoor is winning some contracts as well now.

 

[Deleted member 16864]

IMO, People have been putting WAY too much emphasis on military weapons solicitations recently. 277 fury won some competition and people are acting like its going to replace 556 nato across the military.. I'm curious if any soldiers are actually fielding that fury round now years later? 300 Norma got selected for some select unit's sniper rifles so people start saying 300 WM is out, norma is the future! Then some other group orders some sniper rifles in 300 PRC and rubes are exclaiming the 300 norma is dead cuz someone ordered 300 PRC.

It just seems like weapons have come so far with the number of options that its not going to ever be standardized again like it was when everything was 30-06 rifles and 45 pistols and SMGs or even the past 60 years with 556 has ruled most battle rifles.

6.5 Creedmoor is winning some contracts as well now.

Complicating logistics is never a good thing.

 

[Simeod]

This won't catch on but it'll hold a small market share then after a few years it'll fade away leaving people unable to shoot their rifles. Not that dissimilar to the 277 Fury and 270WSM. It's likely only going to be made by 2 companies: Savage and Geissele which is $3800. It's been a few years since Federal released a new cartridge so they just wanted to be included in some long range hype.

Incase you missed it, the new sig weapons accepted by the Army are the .277 fury. The .277 Fury is 6.8mm. Belted magnum and all.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Incase you missed it, the new sig weapons accepted by the Army are the .277 fury. The .277 Fury is 6.8mm. Belted magnum and all.

Huh? The fury is not belted and it’s not a “magnum”.

 

[SMMiller55]

The problem I see is this; the shooting community has been inundated with “new” cartridge designs since 1906. But there really wasn’t much “new” about them. Add a little case length here, sharpen the angle of the shoulder there. Nothing that actually qualified as a stand alone breakthrough in how we utilize cartridge efficiency.

After all the years of the next best thing we have become skeptical of everything. Riflemen talk about ammo manufactures like they are the government and shout “they are all out to get me”. While Uncle Sam likely is out to get you, Federal and Winchester and Browning are likely not.

With that said if something truly different did come along would we even know it or would we yell at it for not already being a 30-06? What about the legacy cartridges we all know and love today? Did the .270 get the red carpet rolled out for it by the people? What about the .243?

I think we should be cautious of being too cautious. You would likely be surprised if you could have a conversation with some gentlemen back in 1906 about that fangled new cartridge that Springfield is trying to pull the wool over our eyes with.

The day we as westerners tell our weapons and ammunition developers that we are satisfied with the technology of a cartridge developed before we landed on the moon, and we need not go any further in researching performance, is the day we lose the arms race to the comrades and the derelicts.

Food for thought

 

[Deleted member 16864]

The problem I see is this; the shooting community has been inundated with “new” cartridge designs since 1906. But there really wasn’t much “new” about them. Add a little case length here, sharpen the angle of the shoulder there. Nothing that actually qualified as a stand alone breakthrough in how we utilize cartridge efficiency.

After all the years of the next best thing we have become skeptical of everything. Riflemen talk about ammo manufactures like they are the government and shout “they are all out to get me”. While Uncle Sam likely is out to get you, Federal and Winchester and Browning are likely not.

With that said if something truly different did come along would we even know it or would we yell at it for not already being a 30-06? What about the legacy cartridges we all know and love today? Did the .270 get the red carpet rolled out for it by the people? What about the .243?

I think we should be cautious of being too cautious. You would likely be surprised if you could have a conversation with some gentlemen back in 1906 about that fangled new cartridge that Springfield is trying to pull the wool over our eyes with.

The day we as westerners tell our weapons and ammunition developers that we are satisfied with the technology of a cartridge developed before we landed on the moon, and we need not go any further in researching performance, is the day we lose the arms race to the comrades and the derelicts.

Food for thought

Cool story bro!

 

[KingOfTagSoup]

I'm gonna resurrect this thread to make one final plea. (Clears throat)

Dear Ammunition Industry: Going forward if you really find it necessary to flood the market with new cartridges can we please, for the love of all that is good in this world, please cease and desist with the cheesy cartridge names??? "It'S cAlLeD tHe 6.8 WeStErN aNd 7mm bAcKcOuNtRy So ThEy MuSt Be SuPeR GoOd FoR tHaT" Maybe it's nitpicky but I wish we'd return to some less cheesy bougie cartridge names if we have to have new ones

 

[Lou270]

The 6.8x51 (277 Sig Fury) won the military contract and is getting deployed as front line battle rifle as we speak. The Federal 6.8 cartriidge (and others) which apparently used this steel case was rejected for some reason and Federal pushed to civilian market in 7mm, probably to steal from 7prc flash. The 5.56 will still be used by support troops. Despite being a sig design, Winchester won the contract to make the 6.8 military ammo and a new plant is being built or maybe already is. I suspect Federal rushed the 7mm to civilian market before Sig had a chance to intro civilian high pressure rounds as they are probably busy feeding the military ammo.

Lou

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I remain highly skeptical that the M7 (Sig Spear w/ 6.8x51 or "6.8 Fury") will be successful beyond limited applications. Heavy AF. Ammo is twice the weight. That Vortex smart scope.. Once vortex nails building reliable standard scopes for hobbyists i might believe they can make something that complex reliable enough for battle but until then my guess is it'll be a mess. Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of the hybrid or steel cases and hope benefits can be realized/perfected but i'm more optimistic at it being a good hobbyist progression than a reliable service weapon.

What troops really think of the Army’s new XM7 rifle

The XM7 rifle was issued to infantry units including the 101st Airborne Division and received resounding praise. Or did they?

www.wearethemighty.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryARClones/comments/1fnbxd8/thoughts_on_the_xm7_my_last_unit_before_i_got_out

https://www.reddit.com/r/USMC/comments/1fm8o3s/thoughts_on_the_armys_xm7_as_of_lately

 

[Lou270]

I guess I don’t understand. There is not a debate at this point. It is a done deal. The rifle/ammo is selected and getting deployed. It could “fail” I guess but there is no “limited” applications. It is the army main battle rifle. I was not around but know majority hated the m16 and did not stop army from moving with it. The design may take tweaks like the 5.56 adoption but it still went forward

Lou

 

[Big Sky Guy]

I'm gonna resurrect this thread to make one final plea. (Clears throat)

Dear Ammunition Industry: Going forward if you really find it necessary to flood the market with new cartridges can we please, for the love of all that is good in this world, please cease and desist with the cheesy cartridge names??? "It'S cAlLeD tHe 6.8 WeStErN aNd 7mm bAcKcOuNtRy So ThEy MuSt Be SuPeR GoOd FoR tHaT" Maybe it's nitpicky but I wish we'd return to some less cheesy bougie cartridge names if we have to have new ones

Very good point. I've said for years I'd love to see some sort of standardization requirement when it comes to naming by SAAMI. I mean even the differences aren't just limited to using metric vs. imperial. For instance .260 Rem and .264 Win mag don't even use the same bore measurement when naming the dang thing. I'm fine with the creator's/those who submit to SAAMI getting to put their name at the end, but somehow standardizing the dimensions of the bullet and preferably cartridge would be helpful (Was nice of Nosler to pay homage to the creator and not change the .280 AI to .280 Nosler when they submitted that to SAAMI, even if the dimensions of the cartridge were slightly changed!).

Then again, that's kind of what makes cartridges fun .

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I guess I don’t understand. There is not a debate at this point. It is a done deal. The rifle/ammo is selected and getting deployed. It could “fail” I guess but there is no “limited” applications. It is the army main battle rifle. I was not around but know majority hated the m16 and did not stop army from moving with it. The design may take tweaks like the 5.56 adoption but it still went forward

Lou

We just hit 2025. Maybe my logic is flawed but if the "long term plan" is to buy a whopping 111k total rifles stretching into the 2030s, that leaves a shit load of m4s that wont have been replaced into the 2030s. Meaning more soldiers will have issued M4s than M7s "into the 2030s" so how is it the main battle rifle if more soldiers have something else? Unless there is some word play going on here differentiating battle rifle from carbine? Edit to add: My understanding is that the entirety of the 111k order being filled is subject to feedback on actual performance of the weapon system.

 

[Lou270]

The support guys stay with 223 and combat troops get 6.8x51/277 sig. I don’t know how many of each there are but 223 does not go away but is not the combat rifle anymore. The initial contract is for 250k over 10 years from what I read. They are building a new lake city plant to make the hybrid ammo in higher volume than can get from Sig.

 

[Forkyfinder]

The support guys stay with 223 and combat troops get 6.8W. I don’t know how many of each there are but 223 does not go away but is not the combat rifle anymore. The initial contract is for 250k over 10 years from what I read. They are building a new lake city plant to make the hybrid ammo in higher volume than can get from Sig.

6.8W?

You mean 277 fury...

 

[Lou270]

6.8W?

You mean 277 fury...

Yep. Too many new rounds…