That all depends on what time has done to it. And what the skill used to restore. If everybody's hated gunsmith bubba gets a hold of it then yes I agree. But go look at some restorations done by reputable gun smiths. Absolutely stunning.
Just purchased a 1894 win 25-35.
- Thread starter Buckbrush
- Start date
My Uncle Harold and Aunt Lilian lived in rural Mifflin County, Pennsylvania all of their lives where they enjoyed hunting deer and bears very much. Aunt Lillian hunted with a cut down Remington slide action in 25 caliber and many deer and a couple bears were downed with it. The 25 Remington cartridge is nearly identical to the 25-35 in power and trajectory. Aunt Lillian died two decades ago but her great grandson now hunts with her 25. Good luck with your Winchester project. - TR
ImBillT
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2018
- Messages
- 3,821
That’s a little narrow minded. By all means time does some things that should be appreciated, and some things should not be “fixed”. On the other hand, so rust piles are little more than worthless to anyone, including yourself, in their current condition, and a little work could make them something worth having. Refinishing/rebuilding or anything might not ever yield something as valuable or as widely loved as an untouched, but intact, piece with real age, but for some things it is an improvement. I have an old Enfield barreled action with the barrel sawn in half and rusted beyond use. I found it in my grandpa’s shop. I actually intend to put it together and use it some day. It’s not a museum piece, it’s not a closet piece. It’s a dumpster piece. If I ever go through with the project, it will be a functional piece that has meaning to no one but myself. That said, the value of that barrels action can only go one direction, and it won’t go that direction by leaving it alone. Time does some good things here and there, but it does some bad things too. It’s gonna kill me if something else doesn’t kill me first.
Okay just picked it up and disassembled most of the receiver. It's a little worse than I was expecting. But that's how it goes sight unseen buying online. Probably paid to much but oh well. So here is some pics. Everything has a nice plum color to it the wood is dark and the bore looks like a beaver chewed stick very slight rifling. My first task I think is to put it into the boiling tank and convert to rust into a rust blue. Any ideas about taking care of the wood? Should I scrape it and try to get some of the black out of it?
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BrentD
Well-known member
Don't scrape it!
Start with a toothbrush or similar and scrub it using mineral spirits or ethanol or even acetone (which may dissolve the brush eventually).
Then find a clear plastic box - like a Walmart storage box. Put the stock in it, and set it in direct warm sunlight. Try to get the temperature up to 110-120F or so. Once it has been good and warm for a while see if it is starting to sweat oil, especially on the inletting surfaces. You can also try to warm it in an oven or even a microwave, but it is easy to over do the heat issue and create cracks.
If it will sweat oil for you then fill that box with cat litter and put the stock in it for a few days or even weeks. This is time consuming but slow is almost always better in the gun world.
If you want ot go faster or if you can't seem to get the oil out of it with the warm box method, then you can soak it in acetone for several days or a week, then ethanol for another week and the let it dry for a week or more in a warm place. Some people think that acetone soaks can destroy the wood to some degree, but I have not found this to be true, personally. Still it is a concern. If you go this route, but a plastic turkey roasting bag and put the acetone and stock in that. The acetone does not dissolve those bags, but will dissolve most other ziplocks. This will minimize the amount of acetone you will need and will keep the entire stock submerged in solvent, although flipping the bag occasionally is probably a good idea.
You may never get all of the oil out, but you can get most of it. Repair any cracks as soon as the cracks are dry, and before more oil can migrate into them. Refinish the stock with a minium of sanding to avoid lowering the wood surfaces below the metal. You will probably want to bed the action and tangs with epoxy as the wood may be a little soft and wood/metal contact may be less than desirable.
That should get you started. Look forward to pics of the progress.
Start with a toothbrush or similar and scrub it using mineral spirits or ethanol or even acetone (which may dissolve the brush eventually).
Then find a clear plastic box - like a Walmart storage box. Put the stock in it, and set it in direct warm sunlight. Try to get the temperature up to 110-120F or so. Once it has been good and warm for a while see if it is starting to sweat oil, especially on the inletting surfaces. You can also try to warm it in an oven or even a microwave, but it is easy to over do the heat issue and create cracks.
If it will sweat oil for you then fill that box with cat litter and put the stock in it for a few days or even weeks. This is time consuming but slow is almost always better in the gun world.
If you want ot go faster or if you can't seem to get the oil out of it with the warm box method, then you can soak it in acetone for several days or a week, then ethanol for another week and the let it dry for a week or more in a warm place. Some people think that acetone soaks can destroy the wood to some degree, but I have not found this to be true, personally. Still it is a concern. If you go this route, but a plastic turkey roasting bag and put the acetone and stock in that. The acetone does not dissolve those bags, but will dissolve most other ziplocks. This will minimize the amount of acetone you will need and will keep the entire stock submerged in solvent, although flipping the bag occasionally is probably a good idea.
You may never get all of the oil out, but you can get most of it. Repair any cracks as soon as the cracks are dry, and before more oil can migrate into them. Refinish the stock with a minium of sanding to avoid lowering the wood surfaces below the metal. You will probably want to bed the action and tangs with epoxy as the wood may be a little soft and wood/metal contact may be less than desirable.
That should get you started. Look forward to pics of the progress.
p_ham
Well-known member
You're going to have to boil that metal at least 30-45mins, old oily rust/patina doesn't convert as readily as the frog hair kind you get when rust bluing. The good news is that it's not as picky about water quality so as long as you have decent tap water you're good to go.
Overall it really doesn't look that bad, unless you're hiding some ugly from photos besides the bore.
Brent pretty much covered the woodwork.
How do the screw heads look?
Overall it really doesn't look that bad, unless you're hiding some ugly from photos besides the bore.
Brent pretty much covered the woodwork.
How do the screw heads look?
The screw heads look to good. The guy that sold it I think replaced the screws but don't know for sure. They were all very easy to come out so I think he at least took it apart. After thinking about it I'm wondering if he did not put the patina on it. It just looks to even. He was a gunsmith. But then again it was in Florida. Thank for some great tips.
Oh yeah no I was trying to show the worst of the damage.
Thanks for the info. That's just what I was wanting to know.Don't scrape it!
Start with a toothbrush or similar and scrub it using mineral spirits or ethanol or even acetone (which may dissolve the brush eventually).
Then find a clear plastic box - like a Walmart storage box. Put the stock in it, and set it in direct warm sunlight. Try to get the temperature up to 110-120F or so. Once it has been good and warm for a while see if it is starting to sweat oil, especially on the inletting surfaces. You can also try to warm it in an oven or even a microwave, but it is easy to over do the heat issue and create cracks.
If it will sweat oil for you then fill that box with cat litter and put the stock in it for a few days or even weeks. This is time consuming but slow is almost always better in the gun world.
If you want ot go faster or if you can't seem to get the oil out of it with the warm box method, then you can soak it in acetone for several days or a week, then ethanol for another week and the let it dry for a week or more in a warm place. Some people think that acetone soaks can destroy the wood to some degree, but I have not found this to be true, personally. Still it is a concern. If you go this route, but a plastic turkey roasting bag and put the acetone and stock in that. The acetone does not dissolve those bags, but will dissolve most other ziplocks. This will minimize the amount of acetone you will need and will keep the entire stock submerged in solvent, although flipping the bag occasionally is probably a good idea.
You may never get all of the oil out, but you can get most of it. Repair any cracks as soon as the cracks are dry, and before more oil can migrate into them. Refinish the stock with a minium of sanding to avoid lowering the wood surfaces below the metal. You will probably want to bed the action and tangs with epoxy as the wood may be a little soft and wood/metal contact may be less than desirable.
That should get you started. Look forward to pics of the progress.
Thank you.
Thank you p_ham for you're help.
It's obviously not gooder than the seller said on gun broker.
That's a shocker
.
Anyway I'm going to do a complete restoration on this.
For all those people that say you're going to ruin the value. My response is what value is a 120 yr old turd just too keep a 120 yr old turd a turd.
It's obviously not gooder than the seller said on gun broker.
That's a shocker
.Anyway I'm going to do a complete restoration on this.
For all those people that say you're going to ruin the value. My response is what value is a 120 yr old turd just too keep a 120 yr old turd a turd.
The stock definitely looked better wirh a scrub down with mineral spirits and acetone.
But at this point it's obvious the gun seen way better day's.
So the next step is to take it down to bare metal finish and I'm going to send it out for a relined bore and color case Harding in receiver. Once again thank you guys for your knowledge and experience. Sorry I'm not very good at posting how and the why's.
But at this point it's obvious the gun seen way better day's.
So the next step is to take it down to bare metal finish and I'm going to send it out for a relined bore and color case Harding in receiver. Once again thank you guys for your knowledge and experience. Sorry I'm not very good at posting how and the why's.
p_ham
Well-known member
It's going to look great when you're done with it! No use in having a shooter tha doesn't shoot.
When my dad had his auto shop I would come down after school to help out. Everytime I would ask him what he's doing his response was asking me do you know what you get when you try to make candy out of shit? Me No. Pretty shitty Candy. I sure miss that.
elkduds
Well-known member
One day a man was walking down the street when he sees a kid on the corner selling tooth brushes. The kid asks him, "Hey sir would you like to buy a toothbrush?"
The man says, "I would except I already have one at home. I don't need one right now but do you want a tip to help you out?" and the kid says "Sure!"
The man says, "Kid, if you want to be a successful salesman, you gotta come up with a twist. You need to do something to grab the customers attention." The kid responds, "Oh I get it!" and the man goes home for the night.
The next day, the man goes by and sees the same kid. The kid asks, "Hey sir, do you want a free brownie?" and the man says, "Of course! Thank you!" He takes a bite and immediately spits it out. He says, "Hey! These taste like dogshit!" and the kid says, "That's because it is! Wanna buy a toothbrush?"
The man says, "I would except I already have one at home. I don't need one right now but do you want a tip to help you out?" and the kid says "Sure!"
The man says, "Kid, if you want to be a successful salesman, you gotta come up with a twist. You need to do something to grab the customers attention." The kid responds, "Oh I get it!" and the man goes home for the night.
The next day, the man goes by and sees the same kid. The kid asks, "Hey sir, do you want a free brownie?" and the man says, "Of course! Thank you!" He takes a bite and immediately spits it out. He says, "Hey! These taste like dogshit!" and the kid says, "That's because it is! Wanna buy a toothbrush?"
Okay I'm needing a little more advice on this project. I have it all taken down and started the sanding, but I have some large pitting on the barrel below the forearm. I am wanting to grind and weld those places. The barrel is going to have a bore liner put in my question is can I use regular old mig wire?
I have flux wire and solid wire. Or would it be better to have a welder weld it up with a Tig and a Brownells nickel rod. I'm not a welder just do patch panel spot welds or put down a big enough weld to get what I want to hold. I think I could fill it in. It's the heat I'm wondering about and warping.
I have flux wire and solid wire. Or would it be better to have a welder weld it up with a Tig and a Brownells nickel rod. I'm not a welder just do patch panel spot welds or put down a big enough weld to get what I want to hold. I think I could fill it in. It's the heat I'm wondering about and warping.
p_ham
Well-known member
If they're under the forearm and won't sand out I would probably leave them be. If you do decide they need welded, TIG is the way to go. You'll have to soak the barrel in acetone for a few days prior to welding, along with a couple heat cycles around 350⁰ to get all the oil out. Be careful to keep the HAZ areas to a minimum.
Sometimes flaws have to be minimized and not removed altogether.
Okay thanks. I have guys at work that are very very good welders I could probably get someone to do it for me. I just don't like the way it looks but it will never be seen under the forearm. If it's getting the barrel liner put in would you still just leave it as far as warping goes? Thanks for your advice I greatly appreciate it. It makes the learning curve not as steep.
p_ham
Well-known member
You shouldn't have to worry about it warping, they should only need around 50-60A to fill them in. They'll need to jump around so as not to let any one given area get too hot.
There is a chance that you'll get a bit of mottling when you reblue the barrel just due to the different steel composition of the filler rod.
Okay so I thought I'd have more free time for this project, it hasn't been the case. I have finished polishing the receiver as far as I feel comfortable with out damage to the serial number and factory markings to blend it in. There's still very small pitting. What I need help on is how fine of a finish did Winchester put on their firearms for a color case harden finish? I'm about down to a 12 micro finish just better than a brushed finish on a stainless steel factory gun. Also what also should be color case hardened a long with receiver too make it look factory correct. Trigger,hammer ,lever, ect. The pitting on the lever is still a rough polish.
