It's officially off-season--- Let's talk ideal load densities

[44hunter45]

I have been hand loading for more than 40 years. I consider myself knowledgeable in many aspects of the art. I am probably the most retentive brass prepper you will ever meet. I build beautiful looking, physically consistent ammo. What I've been poor at is working up the absolute best recipes that balance all the variables of a quality PERFORMANCE load.

As many of us do, I started by chasing velocity, and that meant high density loads. I have many go-to loads that will print around 1 MOA, some a little lower. My LabRadar tells me I've rarely broken into bragging numbers on Standard Deviation.

My borescope shows me the cost of my compressed loads on barrel throats. I have two (possibly 3 ) re-barrels coming home from the gunsmith this off-season. I want to treat them better.

It's been an evolution to get to the place where I don't have to push a 180 grain .30-'06 load to 2900fps to tip over an elk.

I am also beginning to migrate toward copper for hunting loads. This is a good time to re-think this and work on lowering my load densities. My reading leads me to think this will lower my Standard Deviations as well.

I read this morning that a load density of 85% is the magic number. Pulling down various factory loads, I find them all between 80% and 90%.

I've spent the last couple of days playing with QuickLoad using lower density loads. It's been eye opening.

I want to hear what the old hands here on HT have to say about it. I'm still about velocity, but want to explore what more headspace will do for me.

 

[BackofBeyond]

I haven’t played with load density either, but recently started following Reload Every Day on Instagram. He’s a young guy with a passion and is preaching a gospel of internal ballistics, centered around ideal load density. It makes sense to me, even though I’m still having a hard time wrapping my head around ignoring accuracy nodes etc. He’s cranking out 100 round test batches with single SD and ES. Hard to argue with that. Kid offers a 1 on 1 load development course for like $200, which I’ve considered. I don’t know if he’s selling snake oil or not, but may be worth a try.

 

[Caseknife]

Seems like that I have always had the most accurate load when the case is full, not necessarily compressed. One thing that I watch with QL is "burn percentage". I try to use the powders that give me 100% burn in the barrel. Will definitely play with lower densities and see where it leads.

 

[derek_s]

I've always been told closer to 100% is best but I've never tested it. I'm curious about this now too.

 

[mtmuley]

Honestly, never even considered it. mtmuley

 

[std7mag]

While not reloading as long as @44hunter45, i've run accross some things.

The whole 85% fill ratio/density, came about for larger volume cases.
Cases like 7mm Rem Mag & 300 Win Mag.
Too low of a density and you get wierd pressure spikes, that can be dangerous.
And recoil can/will kick like a max charge, but with a sharper impulse.

Even cases such as the 7mm-08 are not immune.

Typically with QL & manuals if they list it, i try for 100% burn and density between 80-104%.

More than 104% and you need to crimp as the powder will push the bullet out of the neck.

 

[44hunter45]

While not reloading as long as @44hunter45, i've run accross some things.

The whole 85% fill ratio/density, came about for larger volume cases.
Cases like 7mm Rem Mag & 300 Win Mag.
Too low of a density and you get wierd pressure spikes, that can be dangerous.
And recoil can/will kick like a max charge, but with a sharper impulse.

Even cases such as the 7mm-08 are not immune.

Typically with QL & manuals if they list it, i try for 100% burn and density between 80-104%.

More than 104% and you need to crimp as the powder will push the bullet out of the neck.

Yes -

This is very much about 264WM, 7mm RM, & 358 Norma Mag.

This was me for a long time. 104-105% loads over heavy crimps. I was very much in the, "as close to full as possible" camp.
My go-to .30-'06 load for decades was a compressed load of IMR4831 with a 180 Speer BT. I killed elk with it. I pulled down over 500 of these last winter and I'm starting over. I'm done trying to make an '06 be a 300 Win Mag.

There are higher energy powders now that I haven't played with. I think I can meet my velocity goals. Honestly, in most cartridges, hitting factory velocity numbers is no big deal, although the .264 WM can be snotty sometimes.

I won't go below 70 % even for ladder testing due to the risk of flash-over.

The truth is, I feel like I just want to try some new tricks and see if there is something new I can do. I really like tweaking the mix in QL and seeing what numbers come out. This is just a new variable to play with for me.

I think that more headspace will be more forgiving of case weight differences.

 

[Dakotakid]

Hornady did a new podcast that seems to call into question some of the minutia we do.
Might be worth a watch.

 

[Addicting]

I think that more headspace will be more forgiving of case weight differences.

Proper throat depth for the class of bullets seems to be more of an issue with these modern bullets. I’ve been having the work done by the smith when rechambered. Seating the bullet in just the neck and not way down into the case has improved my SD/ES. That may just be the reduction of case fill as you’re eluding to.

 

[44hunter45]

Hornady did a new podcast that seems to call into question some of the minutia we do.
Might be worth a watch.

I might have to get over my distaste with Hornady. It all started when they sent me a bullet chart and a sticker that said "Get Loaded" on it.
I wrote an old fashioned snail mail letter to their VP of Marketing asking WTF came up with a slogan that equates excessive alcohol consumption with handloading.
He sent a snail mail reply claiming that I am the only negative response he ever received from the campaign. From his tone, he should just as well have addressed the letter to, "Dear Karen".

For now, I'm still, "F Hornady. "

 

[Fire_9]

My borescope shows me the cost of my compressed loads on barrel throats. I have two (possibly 3 ) re-barrels coming home from the gunsmith this off-season. I want to treat them better.

Are you rebarreling due to accuracy/velocity loss or just on what you’re seeing with your borescope?

 

[millerkiller77]

I haven’t played with load density either, but recently started following Reload Every Day on Instagram. He’s a young guy with a passion and is preaching a gospel of internal ballistics, centered around ideal load density. It makes sense to me, even though I’m still having a hard time wrapping my head around ignoring accuracy nodes etc. He’s cranking out 100 round test batches with single SD and ES. Hard to argue with that. Kid offers a 1 on 1 load development course for like $200, which I’ve considered. I don’t know if he’s selling snake oil or not, but may be worth a try.

Couldn't find that account.

 

[BackofBeyond]

Couldn't find that account.

I had it wrong. It’s ReloadingAllDay.

 

[Don Fischer]

I have been hand loading for more than 40 years. I consider myself knowledgeable in many aspects of the art. I am probably the most retentive brass prepper you will ever meet. I build beautiful looking, physically consistent ammo. What I've been poor at is working up the absolute best recipes that balance all the variables of a quality PERFORMANCE load.

As many of us do, I started by chasing velocity, and that meant high density loads. I have many go-to loads that will print around 1 MOA, some a little lower. My LabRadar tells me I've rarely broken into bragging numbers on Standard Deviation.

My borescope shows me the cost of my compressed loads on barrel throats. I have two (possibly 3 ) re-barrels coming home from the gunsmith this off-season. I want to treat them better.

It's been an evolution to get to the place where I don't have to push a 180 grain .30-'06 load to 2900fps to tip over an elk.

I am also beginning to migrate toward copper for hunting loads. This is a good time to re-think this and work on lowering my load densities. My reading leads me to think this will lower my Standard Deviations as well.

I read this morning that a load density of 85% is the magic number. Pulling down various factory loads, I find them all between 80% and 90%.

I've spent the last couple of days playing with QuickLoad using lower density loads. It's been eye opening.

I want to hear what the old hands here on HT have to say about it. I'm still about velocity, but want to explore what more headspace will do for me.

I think many have gotton to far into the science and wallow in need of something else to do. Been down the road a lot of years but haven't a clue about the real science of it. What i do know is make accurate ammo, that being to suit me, and go shoot something. The science of the whole thing is beyond my grasp!

 

[BackofBeyond]

I might have to get over my distaste with Hornady. It all started when they sent me a bullet chart and a sticker that said "Get Loaded" on it.
I wrote an old fashioned snail mail letter to their VP of Marketing asking WTF came up with a slogan that equates excessive alcohol consumption with handloading.
He sent a snail mail reply claiming that I am the only negative response he ever received from the campaign. From his tone, he should just as well have addressed the letter to, "Dear Karen".

For now, I'm still, "F Hornady. "

We’re gonna have to call you KarenFreak from now on.

 

[Farmerj]

I’ve gotten into the economy of it.

I’ve been finding powders that let me use less of a charge, the cost is less per pound as well making the cost to shoot even less.

Add in using factory second bullets of the same major name brands which further cuts costs…

Makes shooting enjoyable again.

.223 is $6/ box of 20, 260 and 280 Remington are both about $9/box.

As to their density, about 60%.

With groups well under 1/2 MOA. I don’t think I’ll change things much. But it’s definitely loading different from the norm.

 

[millerkiller77]

I might have to get over my distaste with Hornady. It all started when they sent me a bullet chart and a sticker that said "Get Loaded" on it.
I wrote an old fashioned snail mail letter to their VP of Marketing asking WTF came up with a slogan that equates excessive alcohol consumption with handloading.
He sent a snail mail reply claiming that I am the only negative response he ever received from the campaign. From his tone, he should just as well have addressed the letter to, "Dear Karen".

For now, I'm still, "F Hornady. "

Your profile pic has me falling off the toilet in laughter. That's a classic.

 

[44hunter45]

We’re gonna have to call you KarenFreak from now on.

"freakin' Hornady?

 

[44hunter45]

Your profile pic has me falling off the toilet in laughter. That's a classic.

If I had photoshop skills I'd put my beard on her.

 

[BackofBeyond]

Your profile pic has me falling off the toilet in laughter. That's a classic.

Same. But not the toilet.