Idaho Draw Controversy

[idahofishnhunt]

Thought I would start a new thread...this probably should have been a new one anyways instead of posting in the Idaho Results thread.

This is the latest pulled of the Magic Valley Fish & Game FB page, since IDFG doesn't have one anymore. Apparently because there was too much negativity involved on it after they would post something. That's the reply back I had gotten at one point when I emailed to ask them.

Anyways..here is the link they posted.

http://www.kmvt.com/news/local/Hunters-Protesting-Fish-And-Game-Decision-265286261.html

Also on the title of that post they put "More to come...", hopefully that means some sort of decision soon on this fiasco.

 

[fowladdict]

it really isn't that hard...it is on the parents to say..."Hey Your old man screwed up...I am sorry. Your daddy wasn't following the law and we always have to follow the law."

They are kids they will get over it, but be better for it if the parents make an effort to explain that people should never benefit from failing to follow the rules.

The rules are clear, the childs application should be thrown out and the whole party application as well.

 

[WapitiBob]

Seems clear cut to me. The date is July 1, not before. Should have kicked them out, just like they would have if the age hadn't changed. Pretty simple really.

 

[Ultrahunter]

I hope they leave it alone. Let the kids hunt with their family's. It takes a special kind of a-hole to take tags away from hundreds of 10 year olds after they already gave them out. Lots bigger things to worry about in my opinion.

 

[ERSS]

I can see both sides, but still fall on the side of following the letter of the law and taking the tags back. I don't see it as punishing the kids, I see it as punishing the adults for not knowing the rules. Obviously, ultimately the blame falls on IDFG for not setting up the computer system to kick out these applications at the time they were submitted, allowing the hunter/customer to change their plans.

 

[Ultrahunter]

You dont see it as punishing the kids, your opinion may differ however from the 10 year old who drew the tag.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Thanks to idaho fishing& game this is a lose lose situation. The important thing is that by awarding the tags to however many 9 and 10 year olds, they did a great injustice to 5000-10,000 9/10 year old kids who follow the law and did not apply and where not eligible.

Ultrahunter, life is full of hard lessons if explained properly and dealt with properly this will be a valuable learning opportunity for the kids.

 

[fowladdict]

You dont see it as punishing the kids, your opinion may differ however from the 10 year old who drew the tag.

How about the ten year old neighbor who wanted to put in, but had a parent that was capable of reading the regs? How do you explain that one? Do you tell him/her that sometimes not following the rules is a good thing? As a father of four...I say no. Some times life is tough and sometimes a parent screws up, an important lesson for a child to learn.

 

[ERSS]

You dont see it as punishing the kids, your opinion may differ however from the 10 year old who drew the tag.

They didn't draw the tag, it was an error and this needs to be explained to them. Sometimes life ain't fair. Just because a mistake was made, the rules should not be changed to appease anyone's feelings.

 

[Ultrahunter]

Sucks all the way around for sure . I just hate that these kids are going to start out their hunting life with a bad taste in their mouth. Totally against the entire intent of lowering the hunting age.

 

[fowladdict]

Sucks all the way around for sure . I just hate that these kids are going to start out their hunting life with a bad taste in their mouth. Totally against the entire intent of lowering the hunting age.

Agreed! Makes me wonder if IDF&G has had the thought "WTH did we lower the age group for in the first place." They should have just left it alone.

 

[ERSS]

Does make ya wonder what the thought process was there. How many 10 year olds can comfortably handle a rifle capable of killing an elk? I would guess way less than half.

 

[WapitiBob]

How about the ten year old neighbor who wanted to put in, but had a parent that was capable of reading the regs? How do you explain that one? Do you tell him/her that sometimes not following the rules is a good thing? As a father of four...I say no. Some times life is tough and sometimes a parent screws up, an important lesson for a child to learn.

Yea, it never should have been a problem. The computer should have dropped them automatically.

 

[WapitiBob]

I'm guessing nobody had a problem with WY canceling the 1200 unit 7 bull tags they accidentally added to the resident draw this year...

 

[idahofishnhunt]

Not sure scenario I would rather believe...

1. That all those Idaho parents had a blatant disregard for the law and tried to apply their kid anyways, even though they knew it was wrong.

2. Or all the Idaho parents that don't know how to read a set of regulations.

Is there another scenario that I didn't think of?

 

[Elkmagnet]

A little from column A, a little from column B.
The scary thing is that this was proof that there's at least a thousand adults that should not be teaching 10 year olds how to hunt.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Sucks all the way around for sure . I just hate that these kids are going to start out their hunting life with a bad taste in their mouth. Totally against the entire intent of lowering the hunting age.

You know these kids have already learned a lesson about dealing with Idaho Fish and Game. It took me five years to learn what 5-10 k kids just learned.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Apparently he has elected to let the 365 kids that drew tags keep their tags but also award an additional 365 tags into the same hunts. I am unsure on how they plan to accomplish that

 

[Elkmagnet]

>the Director.
>
>
>Commissioners,
>I have decided to allow the
>362 kids who drew 363
>permits to keep them. I
>
>appreciate all the advice I have
>heard but the narrative below
>explains my
>thinking and will be the foundation
>for communication with Idaho hunters.
>
>
>Below is my message to
>Communicate this that were are
>editing:
>
>
>
>After full review of all information
>and facts relative to requests
>for
>reconsideration of my June 25, 2014
>decision to allow applications for
>youth
>hunters of age 9 through 11
>for deer, elk and antelope
>to be drawn contrary
>to guidance given by the Department,
>I have decided to let
>the original
>decision stand. The administrative hold on
>these tags is lifted and
>postal
>notification of all successful applicants will
>commence.
>
>My decision is based on several
>factors. First and foremost is
>that there
>are 362 young hunters who drew
>tags that will have their
>first opportunity
>for a hunt taken from them
>if we reverse the decision.
>While I may have been
>
>shortsighted in the original decision, I
>stand by these kids, their
>parents
>and their excitement, in allowing them
>to proceed with their first
>hunting
>opportunity for big game using these
>permits. I simply can not
>bring myself
>to disappoint them given the confusion
>about this issue. I sincerely
>believe
>that parents and kids thought they
>were acting legitimately. I ask
>those
>parents that did not submit application
>to place themselves in the
>shoes of
>the parents whose kids drew these
>permits, through no fault of
>theirs. Two
>wrongs do not make a right.
>
>
>Second, the Department guidance for the
>application process was not clear
>
>and consistent in its placement or
>wording in the 2014 Big
>Game season and
>rule brochure. For example on page
>11 of the brochure under
>What's New -
>Hunting Age, there is reference that
>an age 10 hunter may
>hunt big game in
>2014 as long as they are
>accompanied by an adult, but
>there no mention of
>the guidance on control hunts that
>occurs later on page 108.
>The deer CH
>section mentions the youth guidance for
>age 10 hunters relative to
>not being
>eligible to apply for the youth
>CH, but the elk and
>antelope control hunt
>section do not have this same
>information. No mention in the
>brochure is
>made for 11 year old who
>are not 12 at the
>time of the hunt being
>
>ineligible. This was done in a
>news release latter.
>
>Third, there is no Commission rule
>or Idaho law that established
>the
>Department guidance. It was and is
>an administrative decision. This is
>a one
>time occurrence that will never happen
>again. As of today any
>youth with a
>hunting license who will be age
>10 at the time of
>the hunt can apply for
>a
>control hunt. There was no legislative
>intent language in House Bill
>399 to
>delay the control hunt opportunity for
>2014 big game seasons. That
>was our
>interpretation as an agency that we
>did not adequately or clearly
>
>communicate to all. Thus no violation
>of rule was conducted by
>those who
>were not aware of the administrative
>guidance and submitted an application
>
>and drew a permit. Many very
>knowledgeable hunters I talked to
>that were
>supportive of this legislation submitted control
>hunt applications for these
>tags based on their understanding of
>the new law.
>
>Finally, for those who asked us
>to address their concern that
>the 1000 youth
>applicants may have affected their drawing
>a permit odds in the
>various
>hunts, we will add an additional
>363 permits back into each
>of these deer,
>elk and antelope hunts. A draw
>for those from the age
>11 (who will be 12
>at
>the time of their hunt) and
>older hunters in the existing
>applicant pool
>will take place for these added
>in tags to address their
>understandable
>concern.
>
>I recognize my decision does not
>address the many children and
>parents who
>paid attention to the Department's guidance
>and did not apply. I
>cannot make
>right the potential lost opportunity. I
>owe an apology to about
>1,500 age 9,
>10 and 11 youth (and their
>parents) for a decision that
>runs counter to
>their abiding by our guidance. I
>deeply regret that I have
>disappointed you.
>I will be sending a letter
>to each with a gift
>certificate of sufficient
>value for the control hunt application
>fees for the second control
>hunt or
>other tags and licenses. You are
>justified in being upset with
>me in this
>decision and I accept that criticism.
>
>
>I hope that we as Idaho
>hunters can get beyond this
>decision and back to
>enjoying the many remaining opportunities for
>second control hunt draw for
>
>leftover tags along with the numerous
>Idaho general hunts for deer
>and elk,
>including some with specific youth opportunities.
> Further, I hope that
>
>parents and grandparents remember their opportunity
>to designate a control
>hunt tag to their eligible child
>or grandchild. Thank You for
>your
>understanding.

 

[idahofishnhunt]

EEK Magnet!

Here is the desicion made by the Director.


Commissioners,
I have decided to allow the 362 kids who drew 363 permits to keep them. I
appreciate all the advice I have heard but the narrative below explains my
thinking and will be the foundation for communication with Idaho hunters.

Below is my message to Communicate this that were are editing:

After full review of all information and facts relative to requests for
reconsideration of my June 25, 2014 decision to allow applications for youth
hunters of age 9 through 11 for deer, elk and antelope to be drawn contrary
to guidance given by the Department, I have decided to let the original
decision stand. The administrative hold on these tags is lifted and postal
notification of all successful applicants will commence.

My decision is based on several factors. First and foremost is that there
are 362 young hunters who drew tags that will have their first opportunity
for a hunt taken from them if we reverse the decision. While I may have been
shortsighted in the original decision, I stand by these kids, their parents
and their excitement, in allowing them to proceed with their first hunting
opportunity for big game using these permits. I simply can not bring myself
to disappoint them given the confusion about this issue. I sincerely believe
that parents and kids thought they were acting legitimately. I ask those
parents that did not submit application to place themselves in the shoes of
the parents whose kids drew these permits, through no fault of theirs. Two
wrongs do not make a right.

Second, the Department guidance for the application process was not clear
and consistent in its placement or wording in the 2014 Big Game season and
rule brochure. For example on page 11 of the brochure under What's New -
Hunting Age, there is reference that an age 10 hunter may hunt big game in
2014 as long as they are accompanied by an adult, but there no mention of
the guidance on control hunts that occurs later on page 108. The deer CH
section mentions the youth guidance for age 10 hunters relative to not being
eligible to apply for the youth CH, but the elk and antelope control hunt
section do not have this same information. No mention in the brochure is
made for 11 year old who are not 12 at the time of the hunt being
ineligible. This was done in a news release latter.

Third, there is no Commission rule or Idaho law that established the
Department guidance. It was and is an administrative decision. This is a one
time occurrence that will never happen again. As of today any youth with a
hunting license who will be age 10 at the time of the hunt can apply for a
control hunt. There was no legislative intent language in House Bill 399 to
delay the control hunt opportunity for 2014 big game seasons. That was our
interpretation as an agency that we did not adequately or clearly
communicate to all. Thus no violation of rule was conducted by those who
were not aware of the administrative guidance and submitted an application
and drew a permit. Many very knowledgeable hunters I talked to that were
supportive of this legislation submitted control hunt applications for these
tags based on their understanding of the new law.

Finally, for those who asked us to address their concern that the 1000 youth
applicants may have affected their drawing a permit odds in the various
hunts, we will add an additional 363 permits back into each of these deer,
elk and antelope hunts. A draw for those from the age 11 (who will be 12 at
the time of their hunt) and older hunters in the existing applicant pool
will take place for these added in tags to address their understandable
concern.

I recognize my decision does not address the many children and parents who
paid attention to the Department's guidance and did not apply. I cannot make
right the potential lost opportunity. I owe an apology to about 1,500 age 9,
10 and 11 youth (and their parents) for a decision that runs counter to
their abiding by our guidance. I deeply regret that I have disappointed you.
I will be sending a letter to each with a gift certificate of sufficient
value for the control hunt application fees for the second control hunt or
other tags and licenses. You are justified in being upset with me in this
decision and I accept that criticism.

I hope that we as Idaho hunters can get beyond this decision and back to
enjoying the many remaining opportunities for second control hunt draw for
leftover tags along with the numerous Idaho general hunts for deer and elk,
including some with specific youth opportunities. Further, I hope that
parents and grandparents remember their opportunity to designate a control
hunt tag to their eligible child or grandchild. Thank You for your
understanding.