Hunting/Outdoors Mentor Misses

[Hams42]

I am in the process of planning out a new load for one of my rifles and it caused me to think about how I was taught to shoot and the ammo we would use growing up.

I am very particular about my ammunition these days. In fact it's just as much of a hobby as shooting is. I've started down the rabbit holes of making my rifles as accurate as I possibly can.

Dwelling on this made me think of growing up and the arguments that I have with my hunting mentors my dad and uncle in current years . All growing up my dad would buy us the cheapest hunting ammo that was on sale. We would sight in 3 inches high at 100 yrds (regardless of caliber) and call it good. Once we shot up that box it was on to the next box of cheapest ammo. It was more times than not a completely different brand or bullet type we were lucky if it was the same grain bullet. I really dont know how I was hitting anything back then.

Fast forward to last year. I had a friend who has recently gotten in to guns and went on his first hunt last fall. He was talking to my uncle and my uncle gave him the advice to buy the cheapest ammo to sight in with then expensive stuff to hunt with. I eventually took my buddy to the store we picked out a decent bullet and went to the range. His gun shot it well and I told him to stick to this exact round because jumping around to different loads means you hit different places.

Now this post is not supposed to be me saying that I'm so much smarter or know more than my dad and uncle but just something that makes me chuckle.

What sort of things did your mentors teach you that were wacky, inaccurate or just flat out wrong?

 

[Pucky Freak]

Overwhelming I was blessed with multiple good mentors. No one is perfect though.

“You should have shot”. Got that a couple times rifle deer hunting after I said I saw a moving animal for just a few seconds.

No tree stand harnesses. I fell out once - I was 13 or 14 I think. It’s a wonder I wasn’t seriously injured.

 

[R.K.]

Overwhelming I was blessed with multiple good mentors. No one is perfect though.

“You should have shot”. Got that a couple times rifle deer hunting after I said I saw a moving animal for just a few seconds.

No tree stand harnesses. I fell out once - I was 13 or 14 I think. It’s a wonder I wasn’t seriously injured.

On that note- kids bounce. Adults splat. Glad you learned the lesson in your “bounce” years.

I have done something similar to OP in the past, but felt it was more responsible- buy cheap ammo of similar ballistics to practice with, then clean and re-sight with the expensive stuff (if any adjustment was needed) before hunting season. Now that my practice ammo is $40/box, I just dry fire a lot.

I owe a lot to my hunting mentors- mainly my dad. He wasn’t the best hunter out there, but he was top notch on safety and (though he never used the word) ethics. I never realized just how unsafe some people were until high school, when someone tried to get me to shoot over their head at a running deer.

Doing the right thing and being unsuccessful is always better than being successful in a dangerous, illegal, or unethical manner. So I guess I’m thankful I had good mentors.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

I am in the process of planning out a new load for one of my rifles and it caused me to think about how I was taught to shoot and the ammo we would use growing up.

I am very particular about my ammunition these days. In fact it's just as much of a hobby as shooting is. I've started down the rabbit holes of making my rifles as accurate as I possibly can.

Dwelling on this made me think of growing up and the arguments that I have with my hunting mentors my dad and uncle in current years . All growing up my dad would buy us the cheapest hunting ammo that was on sale. We would sight in 3 inches high at 100 yrds (regardless of caliber) and call it good. Once we shot up that box it was on to the next box of cheapest ammo. It was more times than not a completely different brand or bullet type we were lucky if it was the same grain bullet. I really dont know how I was hitting anything back then.

Fast forward to last year. I had a friend who has recently gotten in to guns and went on his first hunt last fall. He was talking to my uncle and my uncle gave him the advice to buy the cheapest ammo to sight in with then expensive stuff to hunt with. I eventually took my buddy to the store we picked out a decent bullet and went to the range. His gun shot it well and I told him to stick to this exact round because jumping around to different loads means you hit different places.

Now this post is not supposed to be me saying that I'm so much smarter or know more than my dad and uncle but just something that makes me chuckle.

What sort of things did your mentors teach you that were wacky, inaccurate or just flat out wrong?

I think this is more common than I realized.

I don’t reload but I’m pretty atune to factory ammo shooting vastly different from one another. During COVID I was using Barnes 6.5cm ammo. Shot really well with my rifle at the time, Sako Finnlight. Was a bit low so bought some more boxes to take to range before season. I’ve read different kits can shoot different so wanted to verify zero. To my surprise the groups were off several inches and much bigger. Got to looking and the brass was Sig and the box had the “made in the USA” logo covered with a golden circle sticker. Previous boxes were Barnes brass and didn’t have that golden sticker. Now I check every time I switch lots. Sako ammo has proven very good.

 

[MTTW]

When I was about 20 I worked with a guy who was about 15 years older than me and had tons of miles in the mountains on horses in the general area that I live. Him and his brother had been there and done that, and I looked up to them.

At that time, I had killed several elk and thought I might be getting a handle on it. One day at work I asked this guy how many elk he had killed and his answer changed my stat keeping forever.
His answer went like this.
What do you mean how many, like all together? I said yes all together.
He said I don't know but the most I ever killed in 1 day was 7.

After seeing the look on my face, he quickly followed up with... what? We had tags for all of them, we were just filling freezers, the elk came by me, and I killed 7 cows from behind the same rock.
That was in the early 80s and I quit counting and to this day I don't know how many elk or deer or even antelope I have killed. I have found that everyone seems to make their own rules and keeping score isn't something that I am interested in.

 

[Hams42]

When I was about 20 I worked with a guy who was about 15 years older than me and had tons of miles in the mountains on horses in the general area that I live. Him and his brother had been there and done that, and I looked up to them.

At that time, I had killed several elk and thought I might be getting a handle on it. One day at work I asked this guy how many elk he had killed and his answer changed my stat keeping forever.
His answer went like this.
What do you mean how many, like all together? I said yes all together.
He said I don't know but the most I ever killed in 1 day was 7.

After seeing the look on my face, he quickly followed up with... what? We had tags for all of them, we were just filling freezers, the elk came by me, and I killed 7 cows from behind the same rock.
That was in the early 80s and I quit counting and to this day I don't know how many elk or deer or even antelope I have killed. I have found that everyone seems to make their own rules and keeping score isn't something that I am interested in.

Yikes

 

[Nunjagottam]

I think I've posted this before. Federal Power Shock shoots pretty dang well for bottom shelf ammo. I see nothing wrong with shooting cheap ammo, provided; it is accurate, and you keep the distsnce down to where it can perform.
As far as mentors... Mentors are humans and humans eventually let you down.

 

[Hams42]

I think I've posted this before. Federal Power Shock shoots pretty dang well for bottom shelf ammo. I see nothing wrong with shooting cheap ammo, provided; it is accurate, and you keep the distsnce down to where it can perform.
As far as mentors... Mentors are humans and humans eventually let you down.

Funny you say this because thats what we landed on for my buddy.

 

[Pennsyltucky Red Neck]

I am in the process of planning out a new load for one of my rifles and it caused me to think about how I was taught to shoot and the ammo we would use growing up.

I am very particular about my ammunition these days. In fact it's just as much of a hobby as shooting is. I've started down the rabbit holes of making my rifles as accurate as I possibly can.

Dwelling on this made me think of growing up and the arguments that I have with my hunting mentors my dad and uncle in current years . All growing up my dad would buy us the cheapest hunting ammo that was on sale. We would sight in 3 inches high at 100 yrds (regardless of caliber) and call it good. Once we shot up that box it was on to the next box of cheapest ammo. It was more times than not a completely different brand or bullet type we were lucky if it was the same grain bullet. I really dont know how I was hitting anything back then.

Fast forward to last year. I had a friend who has recently gotten in to guns and went on his first hunt last fall. He was talking to my uncle and my uncle gave him the advice to buy the cheapest ammo to sight in with then expensive stuff to hunt with. I eventually took my buddy to the store we picked out a decent bullet and went to the range. His gun shot it well and I told him to stick to this exact round because jumping around to different loads means you hit different places.

Now this post is not supposed to be me saying that I'm so much smarter or know more than my dad and uncle but just something that makes me chuckle.

What sort of things did your mentors teach you that were wacky, inaccurate or just flat out wrong?

My main mentor was my Old Man.
Dad was pretty old school, only used a 336 Marlin in .30/30 for deer. He had an old 870 in 16 gauge for bunnies.
Both bought used in 1946 when he returned from Europe and WW2.

Dave was my older brother. He was a gun nut too, and he thought me to handload for rifles.
Dad used to bitch about Dave buying guns to me.
And he bitched about me buying new guns to Dave!
When he died I got that old 16 reblued and reworked. The stock has some scratches too deep to buff out, but it’s brand new other than that.
Them scratches are battle scars from years of hunting.
I know when I die, he’s gonna give me hell for restoring it!
But it’ll be my boy Ben’s gun then!

 

[Pennsyltucky Red Neck]

Is there an edit function on this board?
My fat thumbs and auto correct are constantly changing what I thought I had written!

 

[Dave N]

Is there an edit function on this board?
My fat thumbs and auto correct are constantly changing what I thought I had written!

Right at the bottom of your post.

 

[Hams42]

My main mentor was my Old Man.
Dad was pretty old school, only used a 336 Marlin in .30/30 for deer. He had an old 870 in 16 gauge for bunnies.
Both bought used in 1946 when he returned from Europe and WW2.

Dave was my older brother. He was a gun nut too, and he thought me to handload for rifles.
Dad used to bitch about Dave buying guns to me.
And he bitched about me buying new guns to Dave!
When he died I got that old 16 reblued and reworked. The stock has some scratches too deep to buff out, but it’s brand new other than that.
Them scratches are battle scars from years of hunting.
I know when I die, he’s gonna give me hell for restoring it!
But it’ll be my boy Ben’s gun then!

Sounds just like my grandfather.

 

[Pennsyltucky Red Neck]

Sounds just like my grandfather.

Yep. He was 88 when he died in 2010, and still active.
I drug his last buck (a 7 point) out when he was 87!
Thats another notch for that .308 I mentioned in another post.
Both of them (brother Dave) are on “that Big Mountain” that he always spoke of hunting someday.
So’s my “Uncle Bud” who was my partner in crime before he left for home.
The worst part is the time spent on training my old age Hunting Partner Ben, who now lives 8 hrs away from here!
I have friends from work. We all do I know.
But there’s something very special about a friend or a loved one who was a hinting partner.
I think God must be a hunter Himself!
That’s the only explanation I can think of!
PTRN

 

[Wyoming270]

I think your looking at this the wrong way. They didnt look at it as the best way to shoot consistantly, they looked at it as the best way to keep you hunting on the budget they had. These guys were probably from the depression or raised by people with the mindset of it. Before about 2005, when we suddenly had every magazine and tv show telling us we needed jet powered, ultra tripple bonded, welded, and brazed bullets that have a bc above .99 with a velocity of 6000 fps and 500+ grains, most of us just shot the "old" non fancy lead core hunting bullets that have killed big game consistantly for 100 years. there were a lot of hunters that wrote books or had books written about them from the 1800s that adressed this issue concisely. they shot really plain cast lead bullets over black powder or many of them shot single shot break action shotguns, 1 gun for life and killed every animal up to moose with buckshot, birdshot, or slugs. Some even talked of cut shells to kill big game with bird shot. Now certainly, none of this was ultra tripple x bonded, welded and brazed, and they likely all had bcs under the .1 threshhold. But theres a secret these guys had that made them more successful than us: They didnt take 900 yard shots with a 120 mph cross wind, they didnt need to shoot golf balls at 300 yards. They needed to hit the vitals on an elk from the 10 or 20 yards they liked to shoot at. Now as for the inconsistancy of switching around different bullet types: in something with large bullet variances like 300 win mag, ive seen up to 4" difference at 100 yards with 100 grains difference in bullet weight. While this is appualing to our modern sense of precision, for a guy shooting something elk sized at 40 yards this really didnt matter. One a cartridge like 270 win that only has a 20 grain spread of weight in normal factory loads, i cant tell a difference between different cartridge impacts at 100 yards. A lot of these guys didnt have $2,000 binoculars and $3,000 rifle scopes that go to 30 power so for them 80 yards was a long shot, and figuring a 275 yard point blank range would take on any situation they needed. All of this is to say, this is the difference between the modern hoby of precision shooting crossed with hunting, vs old timers just surviving looking for meat in a bad economy.

 

[Wyoming270]

I think this is more common than I realized.

I don’t reload but I’m pretty atune to factory ammo shooting vastly different from one another. During COVID I was using Barnes 6.5cm ammo. Shot really well with my rifle at the time, Sako Finnlight. Was a bit low so bought some more boxes to take to range before season. I’ve read different kits can shoot different so wanted to verify zero. To my surprise the groups were off several inches and much bigger. Got to looking and the brass was Sig and the box had the “made in the USA” logo covered with a golden circle sticker. Previous boxes were Barnes brass and didn’t have that golden sticker. Now I check every time I switch lots. Sako ammo has proven very good.

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We call that being bamboozled. This is why its hornady for me for factory ammunition. Btw, every major us ammunition manufacturer besides hornady and winchester are now owned by the kinetic group, which sold to a european owner in 2022.

 

[Hams42]

I think your looking at this the wrong way. They didnt look at it as the best way to shoot consistantly, they looked at it as the best way to keep you hunting on the budget they had. These guys were probably from the depression or raised by people with the mindset of it. Before about 2005, when we suddenly had every magazine and tv show telling us we needed jet powered, ultra tripple bonded, welded, and brazed bullets that have a bc above .99 with a velocity of 6000 fps and 500+ grains, most of us just shot the "old" non fancy lead core hunting bullets that have killed big game consistantly for 100 years. there were a lot of hunters that wrote books or had books written about them from the 1800s that adressed this issue concisely. they shot really plain cast lead bullets over black powder or many of them shot single shot break action shotguns, 1 gun for life and killed every animal up to moose with buckshot, birdshot, or slugs. Some even talked of cut shells to kill big game with bird shot. Now certainly, none of this was ultra tripple x bonded, welded and brazed, and they likely all had bcs under the .1 threshhold. But theres a secret these guys had that made them more successful than us: They didnt take 900 yard shots with a 120 mph cross wind, they didnt need to shoot golf balls at 300 yards. They needed to hit the vitals on an elk from the 10 or 20 yards they liked to shoot at. Now as for the inconsistancy of switching around different bullet types: in something with large bullet variances like 300 win mag, ive seen up to 4" difference at 100 yards with 100 grains difference in bullet weight. While this is appualing to our modern sense of precision, for a guy shooting something elk sized at 40 yards this really didnt matter. One a cartridge like 270 win that only has a 20 grain spread of weight in normal factory loads, i cant tell a difference between different cartridge impacts at 100 yards. A lot of these guys didnt have $2,000 binoculars and $3,000 rifle scopes that go to 30 power so for them 80 yards was a long shot, and figuring a 275 yard point blank range would take on any situation they needed. All of this is to say, this is the difference between the modern hoby of precision shooting crossed with hunting, vs old timers just surviving looking for meat in a bad economy.

I get where you are coming from but I think you think I'm a lot older than I am. My dad and uncle grew up in the 70s/80s. As for 10-40 yard shots thats laughable I dont know many people in the west that are or were getting that close with a rifle.

Also let me be clear I understand the point you are making but it would be closer related to my grandfather's day and age during the depression.

As for a 4" difference at 100 yards that is now 8" inches at 200 and 12" at 300. THAT to me is a too much of a difference.

 

[Hams42]

We call that being bamboozled. This is why its hornady for me for factory ammunition. Btw, every major us ammunition manufacturer besides hornady and winchester are now owned by the kinetic group, which sold to a european owner in 2022.

Federal (Federal Premium)
Remington (Remington Ammunition)
CCI (Cascade Cartridge Inc.)
Speer
HEVI-Shot
Fiocchi (Fiocchi of America)
Baschieri & Pellagri / B&P (U.S. distribution/exclusive rights)
Alliant Powder (smokeless gunpowder)

I think every is a gross generalization.

 

[Wyoming270]

I get where you are coming from but I think you think I'm a lot older than I am. My dad and uncle grew up in the 70s/80s. As for 10-40 yard shots thats laughable I dont know many people in the west that are or were getting that close with a rifle.

Also let me be clear I understand the point you are making but it would be closer related to my grandfather's day and age during the depression.

As for a 4" difference at 100 yards that is now 8" inches at 200 and 12" at 300. THAT to me is a too much of a difference.

Its too much of a difference at 300 yards. A lot of those old timers didnt shoot further than 80 or so and prefferred around 20. I live and hunt wyoming. I did once shoot an antelope through the heart over 400 yards. I typically hunt in the dense brush around creeks. These spots will funnel in several square miles of animals. I often shoot animals less than 50 yards. in the 7 big game animals ive shot in the last few years i think the farthest one was 180 yards. Thats hunting areas with miles of open sage and grasslands. The old guys were often masters at sneaking up to where the animals would walk, and being there when they came through. Ive shot deer at less than 3 yards during archery season simply by being 15 feet above their trail to water.

 

[Wyoming270]

Federal (Federal Premium)
Remington (Remington Ammunition)
CCI (Cascade Cartridge Inc.)
Speer
HEVI-Shot
Fiocchi (Fiocchi of America)
Baschieri & Pellagri / B&P (U.S. distribution/exclusive rights)
Alliant Powder (smokeless gunpowder)

I think every is a gross generalization.

I did forget kent. They have always been canadian owned.

Where i come from its hard to find ammunition that isnt from federal, fiocci, winchester, remington, or hornady. Not many other big factories out there.