I have never hunted behind a fence. I have no problem with somebody hunting on a ranch behind a fence. I think it can be as hard hunting as the person wants it to be, or easy as you want it. Yes there is not much of a chalenge of sittin in a stand near a feeder waiting for the timer to throw some grain out. But all that is up to the indevidual.
I no not think a person should say they got an anilmal on public land sayying they busted their ass when they realy did it behind a fence though.
High fence hunting isnt for me John, but I dont rule the world!!! For those that want to hunt behind a fence, who am I to say it is wrong for them. I know many people that are too old to get around in the woods anymore, or crippled, and for them if they got the money to do it, I say WHO CARES? They just wanna kill something, and maybe have a big rack to hang on their wall, I could care less. Now allowing them to enter it in Boone and Crockett, or pope and young, or Safari club record books dont really set well with me, because there is really no sport in it, and its hard to compete with fenced ranches, when youre hunting public land, but hen I have never entered anything anyway so I guess I could care less!!!!! bcat
I agree with you Bcat. I have no problem with people hunting on fenced ranches or farms.I wouldnt mind trying it myself sometime.To each their own.I do have a problem with animals taken that way being compared to game taken in the wild.No Comparison in my book.
I believe SCI is the only record book that will score animals taken from "canned hunts". Its not considered fair chase by B&C of P&Y I beleive (maybe wrong). Some of the elk ranchs I know actually have brochures and pics of every bull they have and there price tag for each one, has there bio on what there sheds scored last yr, what they are expected to score this yr all that garbage. I don't agree with "canned hunts" but thats my own opinion
What is the definition of a "canned hunt"? I do not consider a canned hunt and a game farm the same thing. Can it be the same, sometimes yes it can. If I pick out a bull in a catalog, then go shoot it in a 100 x 100 pen, yes it is a canned hunt.
my opinion is that high fences needs to be defined a little better, because 100,000 acres under high fence could still offer a fair chase hunt,but 20 acres under high fence to me is a "canned hunt".I agree no animal raised in fenced enclosures should be recognized in the record books for animals harvested by a hunter under so called fair chase conditions.To each his own though, if a guy wants to pay 50,000 for a 350 class bull then i say "go for it"! just dont try to benefit from the harvest of that animal be it monitary or otherwise. So basically what everyone else said
i am for the ones that can be as close to hunting open land as possible. there must be a challenge somewhere in the hunt or it would just be called shooting. i have never been to one to shoot an animal in one.
i agree that the animals killed in highwire farms should not go into the record book. but it is a great way for some people to get out and enjoy something they might never really get to have.
as we speak i am looking for land with a minimum of 300 acres. i would prefer 6-700 but i will have to wait and see what comes up. cause that is in my plans someday.
I don`t have a problem with a person taking advantage of the type of hunting that is available to them. I prefer open country hunting. I think that standards must be kept in force to keep the two different type of hunting from being judged the same. I don`t think a naturally produced trophy should compete with a trophy created through a program fill with genetics, supplements and contolled hunting. WH
I went to California last year and Shot this PIg...
I also Shot this Angora...
Now, I know that is is Posible to Get a PIG thats Not behind Wire.. But how about an Angora... If I really want one on my wall.... Could someone that DISAGREES wire Behind the Wire hunting Pleese Hook me up with State that Offers these Hunts....
How About a TExas DAHL ?~?~? ?
MAybe a Corsican ?~?~~?
MAYBE a 4-horn.. THOSE ARE in EVERY STATE ROAMING AROUND.....
MAYBE a BLACK HAWIIAN ?~?~?~
NOW..... That is Only the Exotic arena. I assume Most of you Anti-CANNED hunters are talking more like ELK or DEER.
I personally don't see the harm in hunting there..... Some people should hunt there I think.. I've seen people in the Woods I would PAY to hunt there *SMILE*
I do not think it should matter what you are after. Be it elk, moose, or a sufix. I know one place near King City that has a few exotics and no high fence. Then again I doubt they can jump a 4 foot fence. The guy I talking about also has a farming operation in addition to pig hunts. He has one person that if he does not have enough $ for his hay bill, he gets a few exotics.
Youre gonna have a huge taxidermy bill Moosie!!!HEHEHE All I want is one particular Bighorn ram, right now wnyway!!HEHE I may even hunt behind a fence for something someday, if they dont outlaw all of them!!! A couple of those sheep look pretty kool to me...... bcat
If the property is large enough to encompass a particular animal's normal home range then I don't have a problem with "ranch" hunting. If the cover is adequate you could spend a long time trying to pin down an animal on a very small patch of ground. A wild whitetail can have a home range of 5 acres or less if the conditions are right. This makes fenced hunting relative in terms of fairness.
I personally find my hunting success more rewarding when I've had to work for my animals. Thats a large part of why I hunt BUT like the saying goes "To each his own"
I find "hunting" in smaller enclosures to contradict the point of hunting in the first place. Any place that "guarantees" success isn't offering hunts, they're offering shoots, which is a horse of a different color, as it were. Although ranch hunting doesn't appeal to me, some of these places are huge, especially in Texas. We're talking tens of thousands of acres.
Moosie has a point too. There are simply some animals that you can't get to unless you "ranch" hunt. I suppose you could spend 6 or 7 grand and travel to the northern Mediterranian to hunt wild Corsican rams which would be cool, or if you're not loaded, you could go to Texas and hunt the same animal in essentially the same terrain for a few hundred.
I think part of the problem is the negative perception created by the fact that some of these hunt operators are truly unprincipled and that some of the shooters attracted to these places are just as bad and are looking for an easy kill instead of a hunt.
Of course, living in Maine,I am totally against hunting inside a fence of any kind. We just don't do that here, but if you like it, go for it. The one thing that no one mentioned though is the fact that there is no better fuel for the anti's fire than these canned hunts. Brownie
I was with Oscar on the Texas hunt. Some of the sheep were as tame as house pets, and offered little challenge. The owner put us on a blind, where we sat for all of about 20 minutes. We had already told him that we wanted to "spot and stalk" the back portion of the ranch where the sheep that been loose for a while and were now wise to the game were at. So that is where Moosie got his Four-horn and Black Hawaiian. It was pretty steep and brushy, so since Moosie wanted to use his bow...it was not all that easy. In fact, he ended up using my rifle on those two sheep. (He did arrow his Corsican and Texas Dall, though.)
To me, a canned hunt is where you take basically tame critters and shoot them right over a feed trough in a small (acre or less?) fenced field. A fenced operation of hundreds or thousands of acres is a different ballgame in my book.
Valid points on the difference between canned hunts, ranch and hunting behind a wire!
I have been on deer hunts (Behind the wire) in the States that proved to be as much if not more of a challenge than hunting in the swamps and forrest! However these enclosures were better than 2000 acres of thick timber and no feeder hunting! My reason was simple! I wanted a chance at taking a super trophy class white-tail under a fair chase conditions that are just not found in my home state!
However, I will not say that the buck I took came from the wilderness areas! That would make me a liar! Was it fair chase! You bet, if not I would have left!
Yes, I took ridicule for this from a lot of folks and I say so what! It was a hunt, not a shoot!
I have also visited ranches and left in the same day! As it seemed more like a zoo and I could not see any challenge in it! I just thanked the owner, paid him his day rate and left!
This year I returned again to New Zealand! Although the rance of 8000 plus acres of rolling hills and thick ball busting brush that also had 3000 acres with Red stags behind a wire( NOTE: Although I did try,I could not find the first red stag to film)
I was able to take a super free range sika deer and a decent elk that were or had been hanging around the property and fighting through the fence with the confined reds.
The sika came to a call on the second afternoon of the hunt through a thick valley that lead out of the wilderness area to where the owner kept his females!
However, the elk I hunted had left to return into the high ranges with 4 cows and 2 rag horns!
We stayed on him for 4 days solid and finally located him a few miles away from the ranch. The rut was over, but with some serious stalking and glassing we found him, used the hills to our advantage and got a shot off at a bit over 200 yards.
This was unlike last year, where I went to another 4000 acre operation and stalked behind the fenced rolling hills and thick bush for the red I shot! Funny thing about the ranches in New Zealand, the game inside the fences will draw those on the outside! With pressure pushing elk, and other deer out of the open ranges, they tend to stay close to the outside of the game ranch fences to try and get at the females inside.
In both cases in NZ, I have yet to see one with small open pastures or land that was not a challenge.
Now, This season, I am headed to Wyoming for another bull! If I connect, I will feel the same about him as the elk I killed last month as they were both on the outside.
Even though it was behind a fence I was challenged by the red stag last year and it was a great hunt, I will not think any different or less of him than the elk I just hunted or the one I will kill in Wyoming! As all have been or will be a challenge.
Both the ones behind the wire and in the wilderness.
I also agree that is not right to enter animals into any book that have been shot behind a wire, why? Because if that was alowed it would not matter if it was 100 acres or 100,000 acres as in Africa!.
It is nice to have an exoctic trophy to hang in the den like the rams, axis or fallow that you would have to travel to India to hunt in the wild! Just as long as the animal have the advantage and it proved a challenge.
I will clearly state that their is a BIG difference between a "canned hunt" and a hunt behind a fence. I can attest to this as I have hunted in the wilds all my life, hunted on some challenging ranches and visited places that I quickly left as they were what I would call a can hunt!
Most folks have never even visited such ranches will call them all a can hunt! All i have to say is you would have to see for yourself to understand the differences. I for one once thought the same as some do and that ALL ranch, or high fence hunts were canned or easy shoots!
My opinion changed when I actually got the chance to hunt on a few and visit a few others.
That is about all I can say on the topic and I encourage anyone to check out some of these places and compare to others and you will see what is a can hunt shoot and what is a "Fair chase behind the wire hunt"
As a few outdoor writer have written, "People will mock things that they have no idea about, or no experience with!"
And that is about all I have to say about that
Moosie Do you think that it was as fun to shoot the exotics in the states rather than going to the country that they came from. I think half of the hunting trip is the area I would love to see the rest of the world and to hunt it would be great. Hunting them were they came frome I think it would be more of a chalange, not saying that it wasn't but. There ball park, kinda like homefield advat.