Heavy arrow tuning struggles

neffa3

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3 identical arrows, two shots each, 21 feet from target. WTF is going on? I'm at a loss.
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Bullshot

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Looks pretty wonky. Are you shooting a compound or trad?

If compound, double check your centershot. Then your spine chart. Then check /get bow back in specs, ATA, brace height, timing, and lookout for any cam lean you might have at full draw (might need to have tech twist one side of the yoke to get it back to spec). Then your form of course.

If trad, spine first and always check for good anchor, release and grip form.Make sure bow limbs are not twisted or otherwise wrecked.
 
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rustednuts

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Are you shooting a drop away rest? You could be having issues with vane clearance. The arrows are fish tailing.
 

Mighty Mouse

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I see two nock low left tears, two nock low right, and two nock even-ish right. If each pair of like tears is from the same arrow, you might be able to get a consistent tear across arrows via nock tuning.

If a single arrow is producing different tears on consecutive shots, it's likely due to inconsistent form (grip placement/torque, anchor point, face pressure, etc).
 

Backofbeyond

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I think your bow is out of tune. If it was arrow spine the nock left or nock right would be consistent, wouldn’t it? Unless, maybe you mistakenly ended up with different insert weights, or arrows cut different lengths.

Did you build your arrows yourself or have them made?
 
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shannerdrake

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You are likely to get a lot of responses on this and will probably leave your head spinning - so here's my additions!

How old are you strings? Really old stretched out strings produce inconsistencies and are hard to tune.

Are you arrows heavy everywhere or you just using a heavy broadhead?

Personally, I've never got all wrapped around the axle when it comes to paper tuning, bare shaft tuning, etc. I'm more interested in where my finished arrows (including broadhead) are hitting. Therefore, I spend most of my tuning time with my actual hunting arrows doing a "walk back" tune.

Lastly, the majority of "out of tune" bows I've dealt with are actually grip and release related. Most bows have too much (wide/sticky) grip and most trigger shooters slap the trigger more than they think.

I have been able to correct a lot of issues for guys by unscrewing the grip panels leaving just the slippery riser and a thumb or surprise release.

Next time you shoot, have someone record your grip hand up close and then again on your trigger hand. It might surprise you how smooth they aren't.

Good luck! Bow tuning is a labor of love, but don't forget, the reason you are doing all of this work is to make sure you consistently put broadheads where they need to be. Make sure your efforts are all driving to that.
 
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Redman

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Check out The Ranch Fairys videos on YouTube. Troy comes off a bit over the top but he knows his stuff when it comes to shooting heavy broadheads.
 

brocksw

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I see two nock low left tears, two nock low right, and two nock even-ish right. If each pair of like tears is from the same arrow, you might be able to get a consistent tear across arrows via nock tuning.

If a single arrow is producing different tears on consecutive shots, it's likely due to inconsistent form (grip placement/torque, anchor point, face pressure, etc).
THIS ^^^

Make sure your bow is in tune; timing, ata, cam lean, etc., should all be in spec. Take it to a local bow tech if necessary.

Once that's verified I move on to nock tuning (spinning each arrow around the nock). Each arrow's dynamic spine is specific. Even if my bow is perfectly tuned, I can get arrows to nock tear in different directions by simply rotating the arrow shaft around the nock. It's not the bow that came out of tune, its the dynamic spine of the arrow causing the tear. The key is to find the spot where the arrow shoots a perfect bullet hole. So, this involves shooting every single arrow through paper, usually multiple times, rotating the shaft around the nock for each shot until you find the spot on the shaft where the arrow will shoot a bullet hole.

Clear as mud?
 

neffa3

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Grip issues?
IDK so but I'll never discount my own inabilities...
Are you shooting a drop away rest? You could be having issues with vane clearance. The arrows are fish tailing.
Drop away with no clearance issues
I see two nock low left tears, two nock low right, and two nock even-ish right. If each pair of like tears is from the same arrow, you might be able to get a consistent tear across arrows via nock tuning.
I'll check that, I didn't keep track of them between the shots.
I think your bow is out of tune. If it was arrow spine the nock left or nock right would be consistent, wouldn’t it? Unless, maybe you mistakenly ended up with different insert weights, or arrows cut different lengths.

Did you build your arrows yourself or have them made?
I built them, inserts are definitely the same, lengths are the same. Possible about the bow, but I have no idea where to start with tuning that B$%^& and we don't have anyone in town I know of or trust.
Personally, I've never got all wrapped around the axle when it comes to paper tuning, bare shaft tuning, etc. I'm more interested in where my finished arrows (including broadhead) are hitting. Therefore, I spend most of my tuning time with my actual hunting arrows doing a "walk back" tune.

Lastly, the majority of "out of tune" bows I've dealt with are actually grip and release related. Most bows have too much (wide/sticky) grip and most trigger shooters slap the trigger more than they think.
I'll try a walk back, since I haven't done that yet. I only have the thin metal riser without any grips already. Trigger slap could be it, but I've spent quite a bit of time with a back tension to work on staying relaxed and focused. Though the shots above are with my regular hunting release.
Still have any of your old arrows laying around to try?
Yes. I still have a couple, why?
Check out The Ranch Fairys videos on YouTube. Troy comes off a bit over the top but he knows his stuff when it comes to shooting heavy broadheads.
That's what got me here! I haven't found his videos to be all that helpful in the troubleshooting department. Maybe I missed a good one though.


In terms of Bow Tuning, I'm shooting a bowtech carbon knight. It doesn't have yokes so there's no lean adjustments. The only real adjustment is timing between the two cams and that appears to be good.
 

Redman

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OK so if you have followed Troy's instructions and are still scratching your head you are missing something. I would message him he is good about responding. Make sure you give him all the details you can.
 

Backofbeyond

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In terms of Bow Tuning, I'm shooting a bowtech carbon knight. It doesn't have yokes so there's no lean adjustments. The only real adjustment is timing between the two cams and that appears to be good.
There's no cam adjustment at all?

Valid question about the old arrows though. If they shoot bullet holes through paper, at least at 5' or so, then it's probably not a timing/adjustment issue with the bow.
 

neffa3

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There's no cam adjustment at all?

Valid question about the old arrows though. If they shoot bullet holes through paper, at least at 5' or so, then it's probably not a timing/adjustment issue with the bow.
I'll check the old arrows tonight. I don't think they shot bullet holes. Besides I struggle with distances that short. The arrows are flexing initially off the string, they have to, it's part of the archery process, but as time goes on and they get further from the bow the flexing is reduced and you can get straight arrow flight. If you're shooting bullet holes through paper at very short distances, to me that just means you've found the distance were the arrow is in a state between flexes. Or do I have that all wrong?
1657643975761.png
 

Backofbeyond

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I’m no expert, but I’ve always thought the point of paper tuning close is to make sure the arrows are leaving the bow straight. Yes, there’s going to be a lot of flex straight off the string but that’s not going to cause a 1/2” nock left/right tear. If the bow isn’t in tune, then no manner of paper, walk back, bare shaft, nock tuning will get you to the perfect arrow flight.
 

neffa3

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BTW, a google search came back with several Rok threads, so clicked through to see if there was any good info... my god I can't stand that place. There's an expert hanging on every limb and behind every boulder.
 

Mighty Mouse

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I'll check the old arrows tonight. I don't think they shot bullet holes. Besides I struggle with distances that short. The arrows are flexing initially off the string, they have to, it's part of the archery process, but as time goes on and they get further from the bow the flexing is reduced and you can get straight arrow flight. If you're shooting bullet holes through paper at very short distances, to me that just means you've found the distance were the arrow is in a state between flexes. Or do I have that all wrong?
View attachment 229687
Flexure of the arrow can affect the paper tear at very short ranges. It's a good idea when paper tuning to confirm the tear at two different distances from the paper to avoid making adjustments based on a "false" tear.

I would recommend taking a single arrow and shooting it repeatedly through paper. If that single arrow produces different tears, your problem is likely inconsistent form/shot execution and there's no point in proceeding with tuning until you get that fixed.

Even if your arrows are underspined you should still be able to get consistent paper tears, but if you did want to test the effect of stiffening the dynamic spine, you could try a lighter field point or reduced draw weight.

Other things to check for:
  • Vane contact with the cables, sight, or rest (even a dropaway can cause contact if it's not timed properly or bounces back up after dropping)
  • Nock fit on the string (too tight can cause problems)
  • Nock pinch (a nock set tied inside the d-loop can help prevent pinch)
 

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