Hammer vs Barnes question???

[Addicting]

I've internally debated whether all-coppers are better suited for breaking down bone structure rather than punching holes in squishy organs. My standard aiming point is just behind the shoulder but I'm considering moving forward and up to break the scapula or lower to center punch the heart.

Not all coppers, the LRX I use now will liquidate internal organs without hitting a rib. It will leave a quarter to half dollar sized exit and blood trail. Each manufacturer’s composite of copper is different and so are the results.

 

[Elktrack]

I've shot and like both Barnes and Hammer bullets. They are the only hunting bullets that I use in my .300 Wby and .375 RUM.

What are you shooting in the 375?

 

[std7mag]

I've internally debated whether all-coppers are better suited for breaking down bone structure rather than punching holes in squishy organs. My standard aiming point is just behind the shoulder but I'm considering moving forward and up to break the scapula or lower to center punch the heart.

The Hammer or Cutting Edge will work fine if not going through heavy bone.
They are both designed to go in about 3", then the petals open and shear off, radiating outwards.
Essentially turning one bullet into 5, or 7.

But I've shot through the front leg bone with a 115gr, 25 caliber and 140gr & 168gr 7mm Berger VLD bullets.
While breaking the bone, they still did a lot of internal damage!
With the lighter weight bullets, I did notice that they didn't penetrate quite as deep.
Deer still died within 20 yards.

 

[buffybr]

What are you shooting in the 375?

I staarted with 300 gr TSX for a Cape buffalo hunt (my avatar), then 270 gr TSX for an Eastern Cape PG hunt, and a few years ago 281 gr Hammers for an Alaskan brown ber hunt.

 

[buffybr]

I've internally debated whether all-coppers are better suited for breaking down bone structure rather than punching holes in squishy organs. My standard aiming point is just behind the shoulder but I'm considering moving forward and up to break the scapula or lower to center punch the heart.

For about 20 years my favorite elk bullets were 180 gr Partitions from my .30 Gibbs. In 2009 I built my first Weatherby rifle, a .300 Wby vanguard. New gun, new bullets and since I had had very good results with Barnes TSX bullets in my .375 RUM I decided to try TSX bullets in my 300 Wby.

For many of those years with my .30 Gibbs the behind the shoulder shots would leave about a 1' diameter bloodshot mess in my elks shoulders. My first elk with my new .300 Wby put a 168 gr TSX bullet just behind the bull's shoulder and exited behind his off shoulder. This picture shows the .30 caliber hole in the bull's hide and a very small amount of bloodshot meat on the entrance side.

Then the second pic shows about a 1" exit hole in the bull's hide and also a small amount of bloodshot damage through the ribcage.

This was only a fraction of the damage that my 180 gr Partition bullets had in the previous years.

So a couple of years later I had another 5x5 bull standing quartering to me on my side of a fence where I didn't have permisssion to hunt. And because my previous TSX bullet had not made a big mess inside of that elk, I then broke my rule of not shooting an elk in the shoulder and I put that 168 gr TTSX bullet right on the point of that bull's shoulder. That bulllet shattered the bull's upper leg bone right at the shoulder socket, making a bloddy mush of half of that shoulder meat, then went through the body cavity and stopped in the ham of the opposite back leg.

 

[tom338]

I have also had very little blood shot meat with Barnes. In both TTSX and LRX bullets. That is the second reason I use them, the first is I like how they preform on game

 

[Schutzhund]

I staarted with 300 gr TSX for a Cape buffalo hunt (my avatar), then 270 gr TSX for an Eastern Cape PG hunt, and a few years ago 281 gr Hammers for an Alaskan brown ber hunt.

Did you shoot a bear with the 281gn Hammer? If so how did it perform?

 

[buffybr]

Did you shoot a bear with the 281gn Hammer? If so how did it perform?

Yes I did. I guess I must of got too excited after the first shot and kept firing (4 shots). They all completely went through him so I don't know how they opened up, but he was dead in just a few yards, so they worked!

 

[RealMuddyboots]

First hollow point rifle bullets can be damaged if you handle them like they are Partitions. Berger or any other similar hollow points included. They provide exceptional performance. We have about 15 deer kills in last 5 years; .270 156HH@3250 and my son's 06 180HH@2900. Absolutely devastating. Zero losses. All 1 shot kills. We carry our bullets in hard plastic MTM ammo wallet to protect the tip from damage. Magazine COAL is important as well to insure smooth feed cycle. Both bullets stupid accurate. The .270 156HH has one shot kills over 600.

I have an 06 that I hope next ladder with 199HH will top 2950. Its not even remotely close to a SAAMI build so that is why velocities are higher.

No experience with any HHT kills but see many that have good results. I am working on the .270 144HBC and 3350 is not bad with its higher BC. No down range work yet. Now that the snow is gone, range time will be so much easier with bad knee. Replacement in April.

Varmint? .243W 55HH@4050 with Varget is very accurate out to 400+. Lots of woodchuck kills last summer on neighbors farm.

The biggest added plus for me is the lack of copper fouling. Lots of posts in this thread with the other benefits.

FYI, the copper alloy is way different from Barnes. Everyone has their own "recipe" to provide their own desired bullet performance. The number of copper alloys is endless and all have different properties.

I tried Barnes few years ago and results were ok. Not enough to move away from Accubonds or ProHunters. Hammers has done that and with 15% during Christmas, CC gonna take a hit.

 

[Schutzhund]

First hollow point rifle bullets can be damaged if you handle them like they are Partitions. Berger or any other similar hollow points included. They provide exceptional performance. We have about 15 deer kills in last 5 years; .270 156HH@3250 and my son's 06 180HH@2900. Absolutely devastating. Zero losses. All 1 shot kills. We carry our bullets in hard plastic MTM ammo wallet to protect the tip from damage. Magazine COAL is important as well to insure smooth feed cycle. Both bullets stupid accurate. The .270 156HH has one shot kills over 600.

I have an 06 that I hope next ladder with 199HH will top 2950. Its not even remotely close to a SAAMI build so that is why velocities are higher.

No experience with any HHT kills but see many that have good results. I am working on the .270 144HBC and 3350 is not bad with its higher BC. No down range work yet. Now that the snow is gone, range time will be so much easier with bad knee. Replacement in April.

Varmint? .243W 55HH@4050 with Varget is very accurate out to 400+. Lots of woodchuck kills last summer on neighbors farm.

The biggest added plus for me is the lack of copper fouling. Lots of posts in this thread with the other benefits.

FYI, the copper alloy is way different from Barnes. Everyone has their own "recipe" to provide their own desired bullet performance. The number of copper alloys is endless and all have different properties.

I tried Barnes few years ago and results were ok. Not enough to move away from Accubonds or ProHunters. Hammers has done that and with 15% during Christmas, CC gonna take a hit.

Great suggestion on the MTM ammo wallet. 10$