Factory Loads

[Cammy]

It is important that you understand that I am not getting into reloading to "tune" loads to shoot .000015 5 shot groups at 1000 yards in an 80 mph cross wind with a 130 grain titanium tipped bullet running at light speed. I am in this because the cost and availability of ammo for my WSM is getting out of hand. I just need to be able to build reliable hunting ammo through this process.

I recently purchased a chronograph (Magneto speed V3) to get an idea of how fast some of my favorite factory loads are going. I know that manufactures have propriety blends of powder and that what I will buy will never match factory burn rate and pressure curves. Should I, when looking at load recipes, look for loads close to factory ammo speed? If my factory ammo runs at 3000fps, should I look for recipes that list that as a potential speed? (Yes I know what ladder testing is).

Don't want to fall into the hole when all I need is a round that closely mimics factory ballistics and speed. Sometimes I have to remind myself that not everyone is in this for recreating "factory" results. I also know that I do not know enough about this yet to not ask basic questions.

 

[std7mag]

The crono is good for checking that something is not way out of wack.
If you suddenly get speeds that are say 200fps faster over velocities in the manual, something is wrong.

Myself, I don't use the crono much.
I focus on making accurate ammo, not chasing velocities.
A deer isn't going to know the difference if it's 50fps faster or slower.
Most of my reloading is done with hunting in mind.
So I can get behind wanting to have ammo available for obsolete, hard to get, or flat out expensive cartridges.
I like being able to load my obsolete cartridges with powders and bullets that you'll probably never get in factory ammo.
Like a 115gr Berger VLD over a charge of RL17 in my 250 Savage.

Bottom line, do your ladder test. Look for the accuracy.
Don't chase velocity.

 

[mtmuley]

Not using a chronograph for handloading is foolish. mtmuley

 

[Alpine01]

Should be able to get factory velocities without too much effort. All of my handloads are better than factory speeds; not by a bunch but certainly noticeably better. Once I get acceptable velocities (with no pressure signs), then accuracy dominates. I have yet to have the fastest load also be my most accurate. Agree with @mtmuley, not measuring your velocities seems rather short-sighted. Just my $0.02.

 

[Addicting]

You don’t have to get into reloading. You just need someone who already does.

I’ve done it for members before and loaded up a bunch and mailed it out to them. Shipping has gotten a little harder but it’s still possible. Or do like I did with @Redmt and he did the work Via PM and had his going min of pig in no time flat.

 

[Redmt]

You don’t have to get into reloading. You just need someone who already does.

I’ve done it for members before and loaded up a bunch and mailed it out to them. Shipping has gotten a little harder but it’s still possible. Or do like I did with @Redmt and he did the work Via PM and had his going min of pig in no time flat.

When Addicting took me back to basics a whole bunch of lights came back on. Maybe it's age or maybe it was steps I never knew, whatever the issue, a patient mentor is invaluable. I hadn't had the chance for the final chrono work but a hundred yard shot was a chip shot when your 100% confident in your ammo.

 

[Cammy]

Thanks guys. Only bought the chronograph so I would know what the velocity is, not to try and hot rod the cartridge.

You don’t have to get into reloading. You just need someone who already does.

Appreciate the offer. I have yet to put a casing on the press but am getting pretty close. I just want to have a clear plan in my head before I start. I have enjoyed the process thus far as it is challenging and gives me something to work through.

I focus on making accurate ammo, not chasing velocities.
A deer isn't going to know the difference if it's 50fps faster or slower.

I told someone the other day that I have never had a deer complain about the speed of the bullet.

 

[Redmt]

I chimed in here when @Addicting through my name out without reading the rest of the thread. Now that I am somewhat caught up, here's a couple things I thought of.
The first thing that struck me was that a buddy wants me to come up with a load for his .300 WSM. Next I have usually tried to find a load that mimics a factory load for speed, then tweak it some for the rifle. I've been lucky that the loads I selected have been "good enough" . If they hit within moment of golf ball it was good enough for what I needed.
Next I built up a #1 custom in 6.5 Creedmoor. It should be easy with the success I've had with multiple 6.5's. Boy was I wrong. I couldn't achieve moment of soccer ball. I went round in circles trying to find something acceptable. Finally Addicting took me back to basics and explained a short tutorial as if I knew basically nothing about reloading. I went through it step by step following his steps and not reverting back to my old habits.
I now have a load at 2950fps which is a bit faster than factory specs but it consistently shoots moment of grape at .490 to .590. it's way better than good enough.
The bullet should dictate your speed based on the expansion it was designed for. Your desired accuracy should dictate the refinement of your load. I'm guessing you're not trying for .250 groups at 500 yds.

 

[Cammy]

If they hit within moment of golf ball it was good enough for what I needed.

Yep!

Exactly what you said in your post about replicating "Good enough". Will be shooting Barnes TSX exclusively so I appreciate the comment about loading to the requirements of the bullet.

 

[Redmt]

Yep!

Exactly what you said in your post about replicating "Good enough". Will be shooting Barnes TSX exclusively so I appreciate the comment about loading to the requirements of the bullet.

I'm also going to be loading Barnes 180gr. TTSX. Against all odds, I'll start with the Barnes published loads with the powders I have on hand. If something shoots acceptably accurate then that will be it. If it doesn't then I'll go back to basics and develop something that he likes with powders on hand. Then if there's still nothing acceptable, I'll come back here looking for advice on powders. There's a wealth of information at HT. You just have to ask.

 

[Cammy]

I have no experience with the Barnes TTSX but have experience with the Hornady version on the Hornady Outfitter ammo. I have shot 2 deer with the tipped mono bullets and both times the entrance hole was bigger than the exit. Ended up with an unacceptable amount of blood shot meat. Going back to the TSX which did the job with less meat loss in my opinion.

Going with 130 grain bullets out of a .270 WSM. Has been an effective bullet weight for me and I switched to a .270 to shoot lighter bullets because of the damage a 30 caliber 150+ grain bullets do.

 

[Redmt]

I've tried a few different brands on everything from.223 to .300 Weatherby mag. I have had good luck with ELDX in 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284. Unfortunately they are not CA legal. I've tried CX and CSX without too much luck. I've tried Hammer in .300 cal but abandoned them from a cost standpoint. That left me with the Barnes line although I'm sure there's a few more brands that are equally as good. My opinion on bloodshot meat is that the initial shock and resulting expansion is what destroyed meat.

 

[std7mag]

Not using a chronograph for handloading is foolish. mtmuley

There are other ways to get velocity besides a chrono.

Mostly involving known distance, and drop.

I only use my chrono after I have developed a load. And this just to plug into my ballistics calculator to shoot a much further distance.
After I shoot at distance (usually around 800 yards) then I true the velocity or the BC.

 

[Redmt]

There are other ways to get velocity besides a chrono.

Mostly involving known distance, and drop.

I only use my chrono after I have developed a load. And this just to plug into my ballistics calculator to shoot a much further distance.
After I shoot at distance (usually around 800 yards) then I true the velocity or the BC.

I think it's going to be depending on doing what you know and what the intended target range is. I doubt many guys are shooting at animals at 800 yds. I also doubt that guys are making chip shots at small game with zillion dollars long range rifles. I could be wrong.

 

[Addicting]

Appreciate the offer. I have yet to put a casing on the press but am getting pretty close. I just want to have a clear plan in my head before I start. I have enjoyed the process thus far as it is challenging and gives me something to work through.

I keep loading if I haven’t hit pressure. The different “books” have different grains listed as max. Barnes, Nosler, and Hodgon are several grains apart on Max. They are all a starting point. Start 1 grain below the highest max listed. I proceed till I see a swipe mark or flattened primer with a crater.

Then will drop back at least .5 grains to the nearest 2 that are close.

Using this method you will see how different powders act. Some book max are just huge fireballs out the end of the barrel. Some Max are no where near max. The OG formula maybe was, but they have slightly changed it over the years. Now, it’s slower and not updated the book info.

Example
Nosler Max is 43, hodgon is 42.4, barnes is 42.8 of H4350.

I load a:
42
42.2
42.4
42.6
42.8
43. If no swipe and the powder is still gaining velocity I load the next .2

43.2
43.4
43.6. Ejector swipe, backup .5 and 43.1 is a safe load.

42.6 was 3000fps
42.8 was 3012 fps

Load at 42.7 and start seating depth test.

I measure the chamber and back up the bullet Manufacturers recommend distance. Barnes says start at .050 off the lands and move each group .030 deeper into the case.

Load 3 up at each 2.790, 2.760, 2.730. Go to the range and shoot these at 3 different dots in cardboard at 100 yards. I wait about 5 min between each shot so the barrel temp stays cool. Each shot should be repeated under the same conditions. Don’t leave the ammo in the sun while you shoot these first groups.


You will see three distinct groups if you did your part. If one is close to acceptable then you can fine tune seating depth. If none are you can continue seating deeper or find another bullet. I’ve had some run like crap till I got to .120 then were tack drivers.

 

[Redmt]

Clarify deeper. Deeper into case or deeper in the lands? .120 deeper in lands may not go and .120 deeper in the case could be a very compressed load.

 

[Addicting]

Clarify deeper. Deeper into case or deeper in the lands? .120 deeper in lands may not go and .120 deeper in the case could be a very compressed load.

Deeper in the case, NEVER deeper into the lands. That will cause harmful spikes and other unfortunate consequences.

Each powder has a fill capacity, you can set some well over .200 deep and not compress. While others are 110% full at max COAL.