Endangered Status Sought for Polar Bears

[Ithaca 37]

"The polar bear, an icon of the great white north, is in peril, its icy home melting beneath its paws, an environmental group argued Wednesday in formally petitioning the Bush administration to grant the animals protection under the Endangered Species Act.............................."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...s_latimes/endangeredstatussoughtforpolarbears

OK, Today we have butterflies and polar bears becoming endangered. Pretty wide range, isn't it?

If you're not worried about butterflies, how about polar bears?

 

[1_pointer]

From what I've read, global warming is more the culprit as anything for the decline and I doubt the ESA will get much done about that with the current administration.

 

[BigHornRam]

IT,

I have never read a bigger pile of tree hugger dung than this article in my life.

At least they quote one source with a brain:

"Given the rising number of polar bears in the Arctic, this appears to be a public relations and fundraising stunt," Pombo said. "There is certainly no credible reason to list them under the ESA."

And what does this article attribute the rising number of polar bear too? Restrictions in hunting. Excuse me while I puke.

 

[Nemont]

The move to protect polar bears could also benefit another environmental cause celebre: the effort to block the Bush administration's drive to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. The northern Alaskan coastline is a denning area for many polar bears.


But the biggest consequence of a listing petition may be symbolic. The charismatic, poster-friendly polar bears could help environmentalists put a sympathetic face on the effects of global warming

So Ithaca you feel willing to give up hunting opportunities for symbolic, non scientific, reasons? I am surprised you would advocate such a position. What if they said Mule deer or pronghorns or the Majestic Elk would be good symbols to use to slow population growth in the West. Would that be acceptable?

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, " I am surprised you would advocate such a position."

This is one of the things that always amazes me about SI. I post an article and some people think I'm an advocate of some position in the article! Try to think rationally and logically, please. And don't go jumping to too many conclusions, either, unless you want to prove your conclusion by quoting me saying I'm an advocate of the position.

 

[BigHornRam]

Nemont,

IT pulled a Gunner on you! Gotta watch him, he's sneaky!

 

[Nemont]

OK, Today we have butterflies and

polar bears becoming endangered

. Pretty wide range, isn't it?

If you're not worried about butterflies, how about polar bears?

Ithaca,
The above statements point to the conclusion that you either a) support the article posted or b) are back tracking because you didn't read the entire article prior to posting.

I don't see how you can say you didn't support what the article said. You post an article which says there are more polar bears then in years past and there is no scientific reason to list the polar bear as endangered but in your above statement you say they are endangered. Since there is no scientific reason to list polar bear then you must advocate for the symbolism of listing them or what is the reason for posting the article and stating polar bears are becoming endangered.

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, "I don't see how you can say you didn't support what the article said." I used to think you had at least half a brain. If I posted an article that said the Earth is flat would you think I agreed with it? Get real. All I did was post the article. True, I made the statement , "OK, Today we have butterflies and polar bears becoming endangered. Pretty wide range, isn't it?" because that's what the two articles I posted today were about. I thought it was interesting they were both in the news the same day.

I don't know if polar bears should be listed or not, although I can see how global warming could be effecting their habitat.

 

[Nemont]

Ithaca,
I just don't have elkgunner to argue with so I argued with you. Last I checked I have a least half a brain. At least my wife said I had half a brain.......or was that half assed?

Nemont

 

[Point Creep]

"If you're not worried about butterflies, how about polar bears?"

Funny Ithaca.. been a while since you've quoted the HSUS group on their environmental concerns, but this is equally concerning.

Since I can't afford a polar bear hunt, I'm going to buy my boy a butterfly net for this spring. Get them while there hot.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Greenhorn - my 6-year old son uses a baseball bat on them. Keeps him in practice.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Hey, Maybe you guys weren't reading this clearly. I take these guys seriously. I doubt they are radical PETA nuts:

"Scott L. Schliebe, head of the Fish and Wildlife Service's Polar Bear Project in Anchorage, declined to offer an opinion on whether polar bears needed more protection. But he said it was indisputable that their ice habitat had been diminished. In the Beaufort Sea north of Alaska and Canada, the change is driving bears to land during the fall in much greater numbers than before, he said.


"We are seeing harbingers of change which are dictated by climate," Schliebe said. "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that [the changes] could affect polar bears, which prey on the ice and have a whole host of adaptations that have allowed them to flourish in that environment. On the land, there is really nothing for them to eat."


Andrew E. Derocher, a biology professor at the University of Alberta who specializes in polar bears, also said there was little scientific doubt that the ecosystems in which the bears lived were being dramatically altered by climate changes.


"It is quite clear to most people who have worked on polar bears that the long-term future for bears does not appear very bright," Derocher said. "The difficulty with this issue is that you are not talking about a species-specific concern but a fundamental change in climate. It is different than any other species problem we human beings have faced."





Derocher said scientists still didn't know when bear populations might begin to plummet — if they ever do at all. But he believes that clear evidence may not come until it is too late. He hopes the debate over endangered species listing in the U.S. will serve as a catalyst for human beings to more seriously consider climate change......"

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's what the Center for Biological Diversity has to say about a few other things---including ATVs

http://www.sw-center.org/swcbd/

Take a look who they are in Coalition with:

http://www.sw-center.org/swcbd/aboutus/index.html


Working in Coalition

Alameda Creek Alliance
Arizona Wilderness Coalition
California Wilderness Coalition
Coalition for New Mexico Wilderness
Coalition for Sonoran Desert Protection
Mt. Graham Coalition
National Forest Protection Alliance
National Public Lands Grazing Campaign
Prairie Dog Coalition
Southern California Steelhead Coalition
Southwest Forest Alliance
Western Native Trout Campaign
Zuni Salt Lake Coalition

 

[Point Creep]

My electric car quit on the way to the recycling bins..

It says, "POLAR BEARS MAY BECOME EXTINCT BY THE END OF THIS CENTURY DUE TO GLOBAL WARMING" ... man, that is scary.

Ithaca, Thanks for that link, the "About Us" section is where I'll be browse the web when I feel like networking with armies of prairie dog huggers and butterfly watchers. Check it out, you can "meet the staff".. Friends of Owls

I notice that the Praire Dog Coalition want to protect the remaining 1.5 million black tailed prairie dogs with the Endangered Species Act. What a noble cause. I found some great research data for you and ElkGunner. I'll paste it in after my post. It will give you a valuable environmental issue to ponder and ElkGunner something to do while he can't make fun of the handicapped.

Now I'm going back to the reloading bench.. 22 caliber Hornady V-MAX bullets were on sale at Bob Ward's and I'm going on safari in eastern MT soon .. big towns.. chirp chirp.

References and Suggested Readings on Prairie Dogs

Overall Reading

Application of the new keystone-species concept to prairie dogs: how well does it work? by N. B. Kotliar (available in abstract, electronic, and hard copy)
A critical review of assumptions about the prairie dog as a keystone species by N. B. Kotliar, B. W. Baker, A. D. Whicker, G. Plumb (available in abstract, electronic, and hard copy)
Miller, Brian, Ceballos, Gerardo, and Richard P. Reading. 1994. “The Prairie Dog and Biotic Diversity.” Conservation Biology 8(3):677-81.
Miller, Brian, Reading, Richard P., and Steve Forrest. 1996. Prairie Night: Black-Footed Ferrets and the Recovery of Endangered Species. Washington: Smithsonian Institution Press.
Barko, Valerie A., James H. Shaw, and David M. Leslie, Jr. 1999. “Birds associated with black-tailed prairie dog colonies in southern shortgrass prairie.” The Southwestern Naturalist 44(4): 484-489.
Manzano-Fischer, Patricia, Rurik List, and Gerardo Ceballos. 1999. “Grassland birds in prairie-dog towns in northwestern Chihuahua, Mexico.” Studies in Avian Biology 19:263-271.
“Suffering From a Prairie-Dog Shortage." 1991. Bioscience 41 (11) December 1991
General Articles
Flora and fauna associated with prairie dog colonies and adjacent ungrazed mixed-grass prairie in western South Dakota by W. Agnew, D. W. Uresk and R. M. Hansen (available in electronic and hard copy)
Birds associated with Black-tailed prairie dog colonies in southern shortgrass prairie by V. A. Barko, M. W. Palmer, J. G. Stewart and D. M. Engle (available in abstract and electronic form)
Prairie dog colony attributes and associated vertebrate species by T. W. Clark, T. M. Cambell III, D. G. Socha and D. E. Casey (available in hard copy)
Biodiversity associated with active and extirpated black-tailed prairie dog colonies by R. E. McCaffrey
Vertebrates Associated with Black-Tailed Prairie Dog Colonies in Oklahoma by J. S. Shackford, J. D. Tyler
Ecological review of black tailed prairie dogs and associated species in western South Dakota by J. C. Sharps, D. W. Uresk (available in hard copy)
Plant species in black-tailed prairie dog towns in Billings County, North Dakota by D. M. B. Stockrahm, T. E. Olson, E. K. Harper (available in hard copy)
Weltzin, J.F., S. Archer, and R.K. Heitschmidt. 1997. “Small-Mammal Regulation of Vegetation Structure in a Temperate Savanna.” Ecology 78(3):751-763.
Keystone Sources

The role of prairie dogs as a keystone species: Response to Stapp by B. Miller, R. Reading, J. Hoogland, T. Clark, G. Ceballos, R. List, S. Forrest, L. Hanebury, P., Manzano-Fischer, J. Pacheco, D. Uresk (available in electronic and hard copy) (1)

History and consequence of keystone mammal eradication in the desert grasslands: the Arizona black-tailed prairie dog (Cynomys ludovicianus arizonensis) by C. L. Oakes
Krueger, Kirsten. 1986. "Feeding Relationships Among Bison, Pronghorn, and Prairie Dogs: An Experimental Analysis." Ecology 67(3):760-770.
Whicker, April K. and James K. Detling. 1988. "Ecological Consequences of Prairie Dog Disturbances." Bioscience 38:778-85.
Grazing Issues

Bonham, Charles D. and Alton Lerwick. 1976. "Vegetation Changes Induced by Prairie Dogs on Shortgrass Range." Journal of Range Management 29(3):221-25.

Collins, Alan R., Workman, John P., and Daniel W. Uresk. 1984. "An Economic Analysis of Black-tailed Prairie Dog [Cynomys ludovicianus] Control." Journal of Range Management 37(4):358-61.
O'Meilia, M.E., Knopf, F.L., and J.C. Lewis. 1982. "Some Consequences of Competition between Prairie Dogs and Beef Cattle." Journal of Range Management 35(5):580-85.

 

[Erik in AK]

So how does the American government re-listing the polar bear protect it in Canada and Russia? There is no hunting for polar bears in Alaska except by Arctic coast natives. The ESA doesn't apply to them.

 

[MarvB]

My electric car quit on the way to the recycling bins..

I don't know squat about the polar bears, slightly more than squat about the butterflies, and only know about 20-25% (the amount thats left after being hit by my .223 at 3K+ fps) about the p-dogs....that being said, the quote above by Greenhorn did make me learn that coffee laughed back up through my nose is both hot and unpleasant...LMAO!

 

[pa mt man]

MarvB, that was funny. We better laugh it up now cause when teacher gets back we are going to pay.

 

[ELKCHSR]

NOT THE TEACHER!!! This is turning out to be a great thread...

 

[Ithaca 37]

Greenhorn, "It says, "POLAR BEARS MAY BECOME EXTINCT BY THE END OF THIS CENTURY DUE TO GLOBAL WARMING" ... man, that is scary."

That's not the scariest news. There's also speculation that humans may become extinct two million years from now!

 

[MarvB]

Ith-

There's also speculation that humans may become extinct two million years from now!

Is there someone we should be emailing about this????

.