diaphram calls

[powderhogg01]

im not sure if this is the best place to put this, but I figured since my main quarry is elk, its a good place to start. I am really trying to improve my elk hunting, as harvesting a mature bull with my bow has eluded me for the past few seasons. I decided to get some diaphragm calls to practice with all winter and sadly I have to say I have not spent enough time with them, the problem I have is my gag reflex.. I am now able to at least keep it in my mouth all the time, but when I try to make noise with it, I gag.
I have always used external reed calls, but would like to be able to use diaphragms better. Does any one have some suggestions for getting past this awful gag reflex or am I doomed to not using diaphragms?

 

[npaden]

Are you using the ones with the metal or plastic roof thingy? Those don't bother me at all.

I like the buglin bull ones, but I think there are several with that feature.

 

[zachthebowhunter]

Sounds like the call may be a bit big for your mouth. Try trimming it down a bit and see if it helps. If not, you may just have to keep keeping on and hope the reflex goes away. Like when i first got contacts it would take a half hour to get them in because I couldn't put my finger in my eye, but now its second nature! Good luck!

 

[ElkNut1]

I realize this is a lot of info but worth the read for newer users!


When choosing a mouth reed which is best for us? Reeds come in 1/2" & 5/8" models, many hunters are unaware of this. Most hunters need a 1/2" reed to fit them best. This means if you have a normal size to narrow palate you will need a 1/2" reed, the 5/8" reed will feel too big in your mouth & you will struggle with it causing frustration. This is the most overlooked feature when choosing a mouth reed especially for newer users. Many times a reed is recommended to us to try because a buddy does very well with his. Maybe he has a large palate so he uses the wider version so we try it & hate it! (grin) Next thing you know is we feel reeds aren't for us because we assume all reeds are the same! This is the # 1 mistake, make sure to choose the right reed for you! Newer hunters should start with single reeds.

One thing to note is any hunter can use a narrow framed reed, doesn't matter if he has a wide palate or not but not anyone can use a wide 5/8" reed. If in doubt consider the 1/2" version first! Some wonder if they can learn to use a mouth reed? If you can brush your teeth without gagging then yes you can learn to use one!

Should I use a standard reed or a palate plate reed? Does it matter & what's the difference?

When using a Palate plate reed the part of the reed with the shed roof or dome goes up towards the palate & the latex faces towards front teeth, these type reeds are not intended to bend or shape to ones mouth, they are to be used as is. If non palate plate reed you'll generally notice a small bump on one side of the reed in the frame about center where vinyl covers top part of horseshoe. Most these reeds with this bump will face towards the palate not the tongue but quite possibly can work either way if a single reed. (this can vary from call maker to call maker) If double & triple reeds make sure the layering where you can see them stair step face up towards your palate not down for best results. These types of reeds can be shaped to ones mouth or at times slightly trimming of the vinyl tag for best fit & feel. Don't get carried away on the bending or you will have a saggy or lazy latex if bent in. If bent to your desired fit it may be necessary to pull apart the opening of the horseshoe open end to tighten latex to achieve like new condition.

Too, I like nibbling or chewing on nearly every reed I use when it's new before putting on my tongue & lifting into place. This softens the canvas vinyl like a wet T-shirt so it molds to your palate & dams all air from escaping as well as softens edges & corners so they aren't poking at your gums. Do not chew on the latex itself.

All this can take a minute or two depending on what's needed to soften material. The first time will take the longest & from there it's pretty easily done with continued use.

Before there's any bending, trimming or shaping on non palate reeds you must know where the reed goes! Here are a few points to consider. The reed is not clamped down by your back teeth or any teeth for that matter. Now allow the right & left corners of the vinyl tag to slightly rest against top inside front teeth. The very front of the latex or horseshoe opening should be in the proximity of the ridge or cleft of your palate, the mouth reed itself does not touch your front teeth so it's actually 3/4" or so from teeth, only the corners of the vinyl should be touching inside of top teeth or gum line. You can use center of tongue as contact point on latex for more subtle sounds as cow calling or smaller bull sounds. Tip of tongue, front or the back of tip portion can be used for louder bull sounds as lip bawls or long range location bugles.

One of the easiest sounds to perform are cow sounds, use center of tongue if so desired with light to medium pressure & say Shhhhhhh softly, by adjusting air-flow, tongue tension and or position of tongue in a forward or backward motion very slightly you will achieve the desired tone. You want to practice this first before you move on to bull sounds. Take one step at a time, conquer it, then move to the next step towards bull sounds. One note with bull sounds is you will need to add your own voice inflections into most of these sounds, the mouth reed can only be counted on for those creative higher notes & raspy aggressive sounds, it's a learning process but easily done with the proper motivation & understanding that it will take a few practice sessions to get comfortable with the reed in ones mouth. This cannot be done as a 1st timer in one or two 5-10 minute sessions. Plan on 4 weeks of persistent practice 10 minutes a day, some are quicker learner than others. (grin) Give yourself a chance & be persistent & you can succeed!

Final note, mouth reeds can get old! The latex can fatigue quickly if left in direct sunlight in rig or at home, sometimes in less than 30 minutes. You also have to watch out if left in the home on a table or desk where direct lamplight or sunlight can attack the latex. With lots of daily use they need to be traded out with a new one in a month or so. If doing lots of lip bawls or harsh aggressive bugling their life expectancy can be much less! When sounds are not crisp & clean as the first day of use it's time for a new one! Store in cool dry places.



ElkNut1

 

[elkduds]

Is the reed too far back in your mouth? It should be closer to front teeth than to throat.

 

[Ridge Ghost]

As mentioned before, get one that has a metal or plastic plate on top, which will keep it from buzzing against the roof of your mouth.

I think the Mellow Yellow by Bugling Bull is one of the most user friendly diaphragms out there, and would be great for a beginner. The Mistress and All Star are other good ones to try.

 

[esracerx]

I went to an expo that was mainly suited for whitetail. But i looked at the exhibitor list and found Reel game calls. They make what they call the elk reel. I'm a stickler for sound. While I dont have issues using Diaphragm calls, some of my partners can't. The elk reel is a latex like reed similar to a diaphragm. Only its made of wood. Easiest call in the world and you can use it like a diaphragm. Change tone and cadence just bite harder or softer and can drag out the call. You dont have to put it in your mouth but It's easiest for me to use that way.

The downside is it's pricey at 40 bucks and I can see myself losing it. But it sounds good and super super easy to use. Perfect for what I was looking for for my friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2MLHSj2dwY

 

[powderhogg01]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I think I'm holding it too far back, I will check measurements. I may also order up a few new ones to try different things with.
@elknut, I have been practicing at least 30 minutes a day, though a large amount of that is spent gagging. Ha, I'm dedicated to getting past this.

 

[esracerx]

I prefer smaller overall calls. Have even trimmed some of the material on the bigger ones

 

[powderhogg01]

chewing on the calls has made a big difference.. after softening it up, im able to keep it up there and make some noise! I feel like thats progress

 

[Warriorboy10]

When I first started using diaphragm calls the vibration tickled the top of my mouth and drove me crazy. Any vibration and I was jumpin around like a wild man and couldn't get my hand in my yap fast enough to scratch it. Holy I musta looked like a duffus!! Anyway, now days during elk season I can't walk around without having the call in my mouth which makes the call soft and manipulate very easily. Got past being a spazz an I have no idea how!!

Keep workin at it, you'll get it!!

I found Steve Chappell calls to work good for me.

 

[ElkNut1]

Nice! In reality there's really no reason to trim a reed. Once it is chewed & made pliable you will see that it will form to any part of your mouth. Being against your side teeth is completely normal. It's something we all had to get used to in the beginning stages of learning mouth reed use. This is especially so if you have the right size reed for your pallet width & depth. Sounds like you're making progress for sure, keep up the practice & you'll do great!

ElkNut1

 

[esracerx]

I just didnt care for the feel when it was against my teeth. Only done it with a couple, I usually get a smaller one. Just shaved maybe an 1/8" off. Just felt a little better. But yeah, brand new they need a little breaking in. Like a new pair of boots.

 

[Chester]

Have you looked at external reed calls? They avoid the gag sensation.
Aside from that the mellow yellow and the Phelps amp frames are pretty easy to use. I think some manufacturers also offer different sizes to fit your palate.

 

[powderhogg01]

Have you looked at external reed calls? They avoid the gag sensation.
Aside from that the mellow yellow and the Phelps amp frames are pretty easy to use. I think some manufacturers also offer different sizes to fit your palate.

I have several that I carry with me, I am trying to make that move to diaphragms, as the hands free ability is something i really like. I also think that rounding out my skill set as a hunter is beneficial. I piked up a mellow yellow and already am making elk like sounds. I need a lot more practice.. especially since the only place I can really practice is on the daily commute. good thing season doesnt start until august

 

[nontyp]

I realize this is a lot of info but worth the read for newer users!


When choosing a mouth reed which is best for us? Reeds come in 1/2" & 5/8" models, many hunters are unaware of this. Most hunters need a 1/2" reed to fit them best. This means if you have a normal size to narrow palate you will need a 1/2" reed, the 5/8" reed will feel too big in your mouth & you will struggle with it causing frustration. This is the most overlooked feature when choosing a mouth reed especially for newer users. Many times a reed is recommended to us to try because a buddy does very well with his. Maybe he has a large palate so he uses the wider version so we try it & hate it! (grin) Next thing you know is we feel reeds aren't for us because we assume all reeds are the same! This is the # 1 mistake, make sure to choose the right reed for you! Newer hunters should start with single reeds.

One thing to note is any hunter can use a narrow framed reed, doesn't matter if he has a wide palate or not but not anyone can use a wide 5/8" reed. If in doubt consider the 1/2" version first! Some wonder if they can learn to use a mouth reed? If you can brush your teeth without gagging then yes you can learn to use one!

Should I use a standard reed or a palate plate reed? Does it matter & what's the difference?

When using a Palate plate reed the part of the reed with the shed roof or dome goes up towards the palate & the latex faces towards front teeth, these type reeds are not intended to bend or shape to ones mouth, they are to be used as is. If non palate plate reed you'll generally notice a small bump on one side of the reed in the frame about center where vinyl covers top part of horseshoe. Most these reeds with this bump will face towards the palate not the tongue but quite possibly can work either way if a single reed. (this can vary from call maker to call maker) If double & triple reeds make sure the layering where you can see them stair step face up towards your palate not down for best results. These types of reeds can be shaped to ones mouth or at times slightly trimming of the vinyl tag for best fit & feel. Don't get carried away on the bending or you will have a saggy or lazy latex if bent in. If bent to your desired fit it may be necessary to pull apart the opening of the horseshoe open end to tighten latex to achieve like new condition.

Too, I like nibbling or chewing on nearly every reed I use when it's new before putting on my tongue & lifting into place. This softens the canvas vinyl like a wet T-shirt so it molds to your palate & dams all air from escaping as well as softens edges & corners so they aren't poking at your gums. Do not chew on the latex itself.

All this can take a minute or two depending on what's needed to soften material. The first time will take the longest & from there it's pretty easily done with continued use.

Before there's any bending, trimming or shaping on non palate reeds you must know where the reed goes! Here are a few points to consider. The reed is not clamped down by your back teeth or any teeth for that matter. Now allow the right & left corners of the vinyl tag to slightly rest against top inside front teeth. The very front of the latex or horseshoe opening should be in the proximity of the ridge or cleft of your palate, the mouth reed itself does not touch your front teeth so it's actually 3/4" or so from teeth, only the corners of the vinyl should be touching inside of top teeth or gum line. You can use center of tongue as contact point on latex for more subtle sounds as cow calling or smaller bull sounds. Tip of tongue, front or the back of tip portion can be used for louder bull sounds as lip bawls or long range location bugles.

One of the easiest sounds to perform are cow sounds, use center of tongue if so desired with light to medium pressure & say Shhhhhhh softly, by adjusting air-flow, tongue tension and or position of tongue in a forward or backward motion very slightly you will achieve the desired tone. You want to practice this first before you move on to bull sounds. Take one step at a time, conquer it, then move to the next step towards bull sounds. One note with bull sounds is you will need to add your own voice inflections into most of these sounds, the mouth reed can only be counted on for those creative higher notes & raspy aggressive sounds, it's a learning process but easily done with the proper motivation & understanding that it will take a few practice sessions to get comfortable with the reed in ones mouth. This cannot be done as a 1st timer in one or two 5-10 minute sessions. Plan on 4 weeks of persistent practice 10 minutes a day, some are quicker learner than others. (grin) Give yourself a chance & be persistent & you can succeed!

Final note, mouth reeds can get old! The latex can fatigue quickly if left in direct sunlight in rig or at home, sometimes in less than 30 minutes. You also have to watch out if left in the home on a table or desk where direct lamplight or sunlight can attack the latex. With lots of daily use they need to be traded out with a new one in a month or so. If doing lots of lip bawls or harsh aggressive bugling their life expectancy can be much less! When sounds are not crisp & clean as the first day of use it's time for a new one! Store in cool dry places.



ElkNut1

Do you prefer a specific brand or type of call? Or what calls would you recommend?

 

[ElkNut1]

The Mellow Yellow is one of the softest latex single reeds out there that is very user friendly! With the proper instruction & right size reed you will be able to conqueror mouth reed use! I'm sure there are others but this one will rate right at the top.

PM me your name & address & I'll send one out to you to try!

ElkNut1

 

[LandDiver]

I just got some of these Amp calls in as back up to my All Star. I had 2 All Stars but lost one. I can't get any sound From these Amp calls. Threw my All Star in to make sure and I got what I've been practicing. Put the Amp back in and just air leaving me ha ha!

 

[JColony]

I never had an issue with the gag reflex, but when I first started using diaphragms I drooled so much that I could hardly use it. I got over that just by keeping one in my truck and putting it in my mouth during my commute to work. Over time I got used to it and the excessive drooling stopped . Side benefit, I got a lot of practice time with it!