WapitiBob
Well-known member
I've bought hundreds from powder valley inc and they haven't jacked the price by 45% like midway. ttsx in stock.
Barnes copper bullets?
- Thread starter VikingsGuy
- Start date
There are Barnes TTSX on mid south shooting supply and I believe precision reloading. The ones I’m looking for aren’t there but they have a bunch of .308. Not sure what you were looking for. I can’t find any for .284. Gunbroker has them too but it’s hit and miss.
Mark1970
Member
SO here is some interesting history about Barnes. (at least the way I understand it)
Barnes stared out making heavy jacketed ammo for dangerous game in the ~Late 1940s.
The jacket got thicker and thicker until they finally just went to solid copper.
Barnes had only a tiny niche market for quite a while, but over the years they kept on doing process development. They figured out that additional cannelures would help keep chamber pressure down and reduce copper fowling. They also figured out how to add the polymer tip to increase BC and also make the bullet expand faster upon impact. They figured out how to get good expansion without letting the expanding pedals fall off. They ended up being the first to develop a great bullet, but it was more expensive than lead and so was limited in sales.
Monolithic copper bullets increased in popularity due to two markets. One of which is long range shooters. The solid copper has better centricity compared to lead swaged in copper which can have variation in copper thickness. That make copper popular with long range precision shooters. The less dense copper also made the bullets longer which increased the BC.
The second market was hunters that were looking to go lead free (either by regulation or by choice).
Since Barnes was really the only experienced solid copper bullet maker at the time, they were in high demand.
Federal loaded Barnes bullets in their ammo in the ~early 2000s. Remington was using a different source (I think Nosler, but not sure).
People liked the Federal loads with Barnes Bullets.
Eventually, Remington bought Barnes bullets and started to incorporate Barnes into their product line. Federal, being a competitor to Remington stopped using Barnes and developed their own copper projectiles. Though FC said that their in-house copper was as good, many shooters did not agree and followed the Barnes bullet over to Remington or bought Barnes branded ammunition (not sure if Barnes makes it or if Remington has been making it for Barnes).
Recently Remington went bankrupt and was split into pieces. Their ammunition portion was bought by Vista Outdoors, which is the same entity that owns FC (as well as many other brands you know like Bushnell, RCBS, CCI ext). The Barnes portion was bought by Clarus which also owns Sierra bullets. Thus Federal could once again buy Barnes bullets with out funding a competitor.
Now Federal has started loading Barnes in their copper line again, and Remington ammo that featured Barnes bullets are being discontinued.
I can no longer get my favorite hunting slugs which are the Remington "Expanders" which had the Barnes bullets.
It will be interesting to see if FC completely switches over to Barnes and drop their in house "Trophy Copper".
It will also be interesting to see if this affects the Barnes ammunition line since it is not clear who had been making that ammunition (Barnes or Remington or other).
All this maneuvering is a testimony to how much experienced ammunitions manufacturers desire to load Barnes bullets in their ammo. Barnes has a matured process with a long track history of success. You can see videos on Youtube of their manufacturing floor. Their main press is vintage yet is incredible. It reeks of experience. Consistently good copper bullets with excellent expansion characteristics.
I enjoy shooting copper and have shot most of the options available at this time.
Today, there are many different hunting solid copper bullets to choose from.
Barnes TSX / TTSX Swaged, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Pressure reduction from multi radial grooves. TTSX has a blue tip.
Hornady CX Swaged, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Pressure reduction from multi radial grooves, claimed to have higher BC than competitors. Uses gilding metal (~8% tin) instead of pure copper. Supposed to reduce copper fowling. Red tip.
Maker Bullet T-rex Milled, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Pressure reduction from radial grooves and slightly reduced diameter. Pedals cut (kerfed) from the outside surface instead of swaged into the inside surface of the bullet. Instead of the four pedals most expanders have, T-rex has 3 large ones. If you prefer a bullet with pedals retained, then this one is the king. Very large expansion. Black tip.
Nosler E-tip Swaged, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Single cannelure. These have a bright green tip.
Federal trophy copper. Swaged, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Pressure reduction from multi-radial grooves. Unclear if Federal will discontinue this bullet in favor of using Barnes. These have a very dark green tip that looks almost black.
Remington Copper. Swaged, mushroom expanding. These were used before Remington bought Barnes. Unclear is Remington will continue to offer Barnes, or go back to their own, or drop copper altogether. These had a light grey-green tip
Lehigh controlled chaos Milled, Base and pedal fracturing, Pressure reduction from radial grooves. Untipped hollow point.
Lehigh Maximum Expansion. Milled, This one has kerfs cut from the outside. They look like they copied the Maker T-rex. 4 pedals open and are retained (unlike the controlled chaos which looses its pedals). 194gr 30cal looks like its intended for 300bk or 300Ham'r.
Hammer Hunter / Absolute Milled, Pedal fracturing, Pressure reduction from wave pattern reduced contact. Untipped hollow point.
Cutting Edge banded bullets. Milled, Pedal fracturing, Pressure reduction from reduced diameter with single raised band. Un tipped hollow point.
Norma Evostrike Tin bullet, not copper. Fracturing with penetrating core.
Fort Scott Munitions Milled, "Tumble Upon Impact" instead of expanding, available as projectiles or loaded ammunition. Speer point tip.
Notice that to hold on to the pedals, soft copper is used which swages well, but does not machine nicely. Milled bullets seem to have more brittle copper which would explain the pedals breaking off and leaving a shank penetrator.
Maker bullet is the exception.
Barnes was the first to figure all this out and have the longest history of success. They made the entire monolithic bullet market possible.
Barnes performance is proven and matured. As a bullet choice, I dont think you can go wrong with Barnes.
I hope I got all my facts right. If you notice something that I misrepresented, then just follow up with the correction.
Other than that, I thought this history would be appropriate for the the discussion.
Barnes stared out making heavy jacketed ammo for dangerous game in the ~Late 1940s.
The jacket got thicker and thicker until they finally just went to solid copper.
Barnes had only a tiny niche market for quite a while, but over the years they kept on doing process development. They figured out that additional cannelures would help keep chamber pressure down and reduce copper fowling. They also figured out how to add the polymer tip to increase BC and also make the bullet expand faster upon impact. They figured out how to get good expansion without letting the expanding pedals fall off. They ended up being the first to develop a great bullet, but it was more expensive than lead and so was limited in sales.
Monolithic copper bullets increased in popularity due to two markets. One of which is long range shooters. The solid copper has better centricity compared to lead swaged in copper which can have variation in copper thickness. That make copper popular with long range precision shooters. The less dense copper also made the bullets longer which increased the BC.
The second market was hunters that were looking to go lead free (either by regulation or by choice).
Since Barnes was really the only experienced solid copper bullet maker at the time, they were in high demand.
Federal loaded Barnes bullets in their ammo in the ~early 2000s. Remington was using a different source (I think Nosler, but not sure).
People liked the Federal loads with Barnes Bullets.
Eventually, Remington bought Barnes bullets and started to incorporate Barnes into their product line. Federal, being a competitor to Remington stopped using Barnes and developed their own copper projectiles. Though FC said that their in-house copper was as good, many shooters did not agree and followed the Barnes bullet over to Remington or bought Barnes branded ammunition (not sure if Barnes makes it or if Remington has been making it for Barnes).
Recently Remington went bankrupt and was split into pieces. Their ammunition portion was bought by Vista Outdoors, which is the same entity that owns FC (as well as many other brands you know like Bushnell, RCBS, CCI ext). The Barnes portion was bought by Clarus which also owns Sierra bullets. Thus Federal could once again buy Barnes bullets with out funding a competitor.
Now Federal has started loading Barnes in their copper line again, and Remington ammo that featured Barnes bullets are being discontinued.
I can no longer get my favorite hunting slugs which are the Remington "Expanders" which had the Barnes bullets.
It will be interesting to see if FC completely switches over to Barnes and drop their in house "Trophy Copper".
It will also be interesting to see if this affects the Barnes ammunition line since it is not clear who had been making that ammunition (Barnes or Remington or other).
All this maneuvering is a testimony to how much experienced ammunitions manufacturers desire to load Barnes bullets in their ammo. Barnes has a matured process with a long track history of success. You can see videos on Youtube of their manufacturing floor. Their main press is vintage yet is incredible. It reeks of experience. Consistently good copper bullets with excellent expansion characteristics.
I enjoy shooting copper and have shot most of the options available at this time.
Today, there are many different hunting solid copper bullets to choose from.
Barnes TSX / TTSX Swaged, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Pressure reduction from multi radial grooves. TTSX has a blue tip.
Hornady CX Swaged, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Pressure reduction from multi radial grooves, claimed to have higher BC than competitors. Uses gilding metal (~8% tin) instead of pure copper. Supposed to reduce copper fowling. Red tip.
Maker Bullet T-rex Milled, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Pressure reduction from radial grooves and slightly reduced diameter. Pedals cut (kerfed) from the outside surface instead of swaged into the inside surface of the bullet. Instead of the four pedals most expanders have, T-rex has 3 large ones. If you prefer a bullet with pedals retained, then this one is the king. Very large expansion. Black tip.
Nosler E-tip Swaged, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Single cannelure. These have a bright green tip.
Federal trophy copper. Swaged, Mushroom expanding with pedals retained, Pressure reduction from multi-radial grooves. Unclear if Federal will discontinue this bullet in favor of using Barnes. These have a very dark green tip that looks almost black.
Remington Copper. Swaged, mushroom expanding. These were used before Remington bought Barnes. Unclear is Remington will continue to offer Barnes, or go back to their own, or drop copper altogether. These had a light grey-green tip
Lehigh controlled chaos Milled, Base and pedal fracturing, Pressure reduction from radial grooves. Untipped hollow point.
Lehigh Maximum Expansion. Milled, This one has kerfs cut from the outside. They look like they copied the Maker T-rex. 4 pedals open and are retained (unlike the controlled chaos which looses its pedals). 194gr 30cal looks like its intended for 300bk or 300Ham'r.
Hammer Hunter / Absolute Milled, Pedal fracturing, Pressure reduction from wave pattern reduced contact. Untipped hollow point.
Cutting Edge banded bullets. Milled, Pedal fracturing, Pressure reduction from reduced diameter with single raised band. Un tipped hollow point.
Norma Evostrike Tin bullet, not copper. Fracturing with penetrating core.
Fort Scott Munitions Milled, "Tumble Upon Impact" instead of expanding, available as projectiles or loaded ammunition. Speer point tip.
Notice that to hold on to the pedals, soft copper is used which swages well, but does not machine nicely. Milled bullets seem to have more brittle copper which would explain the pedals breaking off and leaving a shank penetrator.
Maker bullet is the exception.
Barnes was the first to figure all this out and have the longest history of success. They made the entire monolithic bullet market possible.
Barnes performance is proven and matured. As a bullet choice, I dont think you can go wrong with Barnes.
I hope I got all my facts right. If you notice something that I misrepresented, then just follow up with the correction.
Other than that, I thought this history would be appropriate for the the discussion.
Last edited:
Blackbear60
New member
I've ran them through my muzzelloader and have nothing but good to say about them
7mm-08 120 grain TTSX
shot distance was @ 10 yards.
I was 22’ up in a tree.
I aimed high shoulder and expected him to drop in his tracks. He ran like nothing happened and stopped about 25 yards away. Stood there for 5 minutes, gurgling with blood dripping from his mouth. It was too thick and I couldn’t shoot him again. He started slowly walking off and I found an opening and shot him through the neck.
The first shot went straight down between his scapula and his ribs, cutting his right lung. I can’t explain the part between his front legs or the hole in his upper right leg?
shot distance was @ 10 yards.
I was 22’ up in a tree.
I aimed high shoulder and expected him to drop in his tracks. He ran like nothing happened and stopped about 25 yards away. Stood there for 5 minutes, gurgling with blood dripping from his mouth. It was too thick and I couldn’t shoot him again. He started slowly walking off and I found an opening and shot him through the neck.
The first shot went straight down between his scapula and his ribs, cutting his right lung. I can’t explain the part between his front legs or the hole in his upper right leg?
I use 150gr TTSX in my .308 Win. I have killed countless deer mule and whitetail with them from 50yds to 358yds all one shot kills. I have killed bull elk with this same bullet not going to say the distance but it was out there and the bullet is in the dirt somewhere.
I bought my wife a 7mm08 for Christmas and plan to load 120gr TTSX for it. She will use it on everything including elk.
Here is a picture of the bullet recovered from a whitetail I shot last Saturday.
I bought my wife a 7mm08 for Christmas and plan to load 120gr TTSX for it. She will use it on everything including elk.
Here is a picture of the bullet recovered from a whitetail I shot last Saturday.
The Barnes bullet expand on almost everything they hit from low to high velocities. Some people identify small holes in game as bullets that don't expand, but it is usually because the retain their shape and don't bounce around a lot. Consistent expansion, full mass retention and full exist is my experience with all weights. I have not yet shot the 120s, but will next fall chasing goats in Montana. I can guarantee similar results based on my whitetail and Elk experiences.
Redmt
Well-known member
I have hand loaded Barnes (and a few others) in everything from .223 at 55gr. to .300 Weatherby Mag at 180 gr. with the exact same results as you see in every Barnes bullet picture posted. I plink with whatever will fit the caliber but I hunt with Barnes. Too much on the line to have any doubts about what your bullet will do.
Calif. Hunter
Active member
I load the 100 gr and 115 gr TSX for my .257 Wthby. It shoots the 115 gr slightly better but both work extremely well on deer and pigs and even elk with the 115 gr.
Laelkhunter
Well-known member
What bullet weight you looking for in the .284 ??
Sharp stick
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2022
- Messages
- 122
I have shot many coyotes using the Barnes copper bullets in 222Rem Mag and it does well with obvious expansion on the exit hole
I’ve shot the tsx, ttsx and now the lrx in .243, 30-06, and 7remmag with very consistent results of dead animals having not made it very far from where they were hit. This years elk I again found the bullet just under the skin on the off side shoulder mushroomed but fully intact.
They work for me. I would consult Banres load data for determining bullet weight choice since the BC can vary significantly. I have also found their reloading guidance to be very helpful in getting my load developed efficiently and effectively.
Al
They work for me. I would consult Banres load data for determining bullet weight choice since the BC can vary significantly. I have also found their reloading guidance to be very helpful in getting my load developed efficiently and effectively.
Al
Last edited:
Cdduncan
New member
The 115 ttsx are Greta in the 25-06! Deadly in my Tikka!
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