A cool wildlife refuge I didn't know about

[Irrelevant]

And an unfortunate new impact coming soon.

Border Wall Threatens National Wildlife Refuge That's Been 40 Years In The Making

Construction of the Trump administration's border wall has been slowed by difficulties acquiring private land, so the government is prioritizing construction inside federal nature sanctuaries.

www.npr.org

Think about how much more biodiversity they have versus our northern tier habitats, it's crazy. Hopefully they can come to a compromise where the refuge gets additional funds to grow to offset the wall impacts.

 

[BrentD]

Yes, this has become an incredibly sad story.

 

[MTGomer]

I don’t like it when the wall doesn’t follow the border. That basically cedes our land between the wall and the border to the cartel. I’m also not a big fan of walls near water sources.

Then again, I’m not a big fan of all the drug smugglers either.
Hopefully it will work to decrease illegal traffic, which are an enormous environmental problem (it’s estimated that each illegal crossers leaves behind 7 pounds of garbage on public land) nobody wants to talk about, as trade off for the wall’s new impacts.

 

[Irrelevant]

Hopefully it will work to decrease illegal traffic, which are an enormous environmental problem (it’s estimated that each illegal crossers leaves behind 7 pounds of garbage on public land) nobody wants to talk about, as trade off for the wall’s new impacts.

Fair point, but is that really any different than your typical BLM recreational shooter?

 

[MTGomer]

Recreational shooters already proved they can’t be responsible, which is why it was banned in the past.

Edited:no sense advertising online places to shoot and leave garbage.

 

[Bluffgruff]

I'm hopeful the next president stops this stupidity. I mean, walls are great, but they don't keep people out. #Hadriantrump4emperor #greatwalloftexas #westbanksville

 

[Carnage2011]

I'm hopeful the next president stops this stupidity. I mean, walls are great, but they don't keep people out. #Hadriantrump4emperor #greatwalloftexas #westbanksville

The wall will be completed long before the next guy takes office in 5 years....

 

[BigHornRam]

The wall will be completed long before the next guy takes office in 5 years....

Or gal. #Haley2024

 

[BrentD]

The wall will be completed long before the next guy takes office in 5 years....

Probably right and a lot of wildlife and public lands and resources will suffer for it. Perhaps irrevocably.

 

[MTGomer]

It takes up to 30 years for biological soil crust in the Sonoran desert to repair after a vehicle drives across it.
The environmental damage from illegal immigration is enormous.
Faux environmental concern over the border wall is hilarious. I’m not saying it won’t have an impact, because it will, but it is microscopic compared to the damage from illegal immigration.

 

[BrentD]

Okay, you weigh that damage by immigration and put that on the scale against what is happening in the name of preventing it. I know here the balance lies. I bet you do too.

 

[MTGomer]

Absolutely. There is no comparison. Damage by illegals and smugglers is easily 100x worse and that is being quite generous.
The wall is a foot wide. The swath of desert impacted by immigration and smuggling extends up to 80 miles into the United States.

 

[BrentD]

Okay, you weigh that damage by immigration and put that on the scale against what is happening in the name of preventing it. I know here the

Absolutely. There is no comparison. Damage by illegals and smugglers is easily 100x worse and that is being quite generous.
The wall is a foot wide. The swath of desert impacted by immigration and smuggling extends up to 80 miles into the United States.

If you want to be ridiculous, consider yourself successful.

 

[MTGomer]

Trashing Arizona

Illegal immigrants dump tons of waste in the wilderness every day—and it's devastating the environment : Illegal immigrants dump tons of waste in the wilderness every day—and it's devastating the environment

www.tucsonweekly.com

“ Those who get through outnumber arrests by at least 3-to-1. So the real figure is probably closer to 21,000 pounds dropped ... every 24 hours.”


15 miles from where I’m sitting now

Reclaiming wilderness from trash, drug-smugglers

A quail-hunting trip in the Sonoran Desert National Monument brought a rude awakening to a Maricopa resident. Pockets of discarded backpacks, clothing, food wrappers and water bottles dotted the […]

www.inmaricopa.com

@BrentD read these 136 pages and then come back and call me ridiculous. You won’t.

https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=19167

1.06 MILLION POUNDS of garbage removed

 

[MTGomer]

To be clear, if I was king for a day, the wall probably wouldn’t be built, but to see a sudden concern for the environment, when illegals have been destroying the environment along the border for decades is interesting.
Maybe some folks just don’t know or realize the extent of the environmental impact of illegal immigration.
I didn’t know anything about biological soil crust until some of my guys got out of the right of way unintentionally and damaged 100 feet of it, on NPS land.
I didn’t know smuggling and immigration occurred beyond the border more than a few miles until I moved 10 miles from one of the busiest trafficking corridors in the country, and naturally started hunting it since it’s close/convenient (and there is no other hunting pressure)
I also have the luxury of interacting via work with many of the same land managers that deal with border lands issues. The amount of work and money they’ve done and spent to restore the national monuments and wilderness areas along the interstate corridor from Tucson to Gila Bend is enormous.

The entire Cabeza Prieta wilderness looks like this from a satellite

Miles from a designated route and you can’t get away from vehicle tracks.

Here’s a tortoise they killed and ate on top of a pile of crap they left behind. This entire wash was full of clothes and backpacks


The least of concern, But still an issue in a place that is very limited in water; There are currently a bunch of trespass cattle in the SDNM I found. The BLM can’t keep the fence up because smugglers cut it to drive in from the rez, and the Indian cattle come too.

I could continue, but I doubt those with their minds set that ‘orange man bad so illegal aliens good’ really care.
The idea that a steel slatted wall is worse than all this is silly, but so is the idea that the wall will stop this. Slow it down, probably, but not stop it.

 

[MTGomer]

Or gal. #Haley2024

I think Joe Biden will be the 2024 republican nominee.

 

[Bluffgruff]

Better solutions than a wall. I'm sure CBP only drives on established roads too...

 

[Carnage2011]

Better solutions than a wall. I'm sure CBP only drives on established roads too...

Do you work for CNN? I swear I read the same headline from them a couple months ago....

What solution do you have to slow down the illegal immigration?

 

[Irrelevant]

It takes up to 30 years for biological soil crust in the Sonoran desert to repair after a vehicle drives across it.
The environmental damage from illegal immigration is enormous.
Faux environmental concern over the border wall is hilarious. I’m not saying it won’t have an impact, because it will, but it is microscopic compared to the damage from illegal immigration.

Depends of if you're talking bio soil crust or a jaguar. Scavengers seems to be doing rather well.

But I get you're point about the impacts that illegal immigrants have. I don't think anyone questioning the wall means to compare the status quo with a wall. Everyone generally agrees that illegal immigration needs to be addressed, but a physical wall is certainly not the answer. It has never proven effective in the 1000's of years humans have tried to use them to keep people out.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Walls worked pretty good for ancient Greece and china. Only way they were penetrated was by waging an all out war on the city or stopping the flow of goods to starve em out. One of the oldest military tactics known.