Opening Day and Long Range Shooting

[bullbugle]

I have no problem with how you choose to hunt and the limitations you put on yourself but I do have a problem when people choose to tell others how they should hunt. Besides, I've had enough people trying to tell me what I can/can't/should do over the past 2 years and I'm pretty tired of it.

We have enough people trying to take away our hunting/gun rights and we'd be better off uniting as a group than all the petty fighting amongst ourselves.

Good luck to you this year.

Yeah, I’m not clamoring to control others. It is what it is, just not my cup of tea when I’m hunting. I do like hitting steel at long range with the ol 30-06.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Really? What would the limit be? I would be more limited by wind reading skills than I would be a 9x scope @ 700 yards.

6X magnification

 

[MNElkNut]

Ben wanted an opinion of a Hunter Ed instructor. We only get so much time with the kids and have a lot to teach. I spend more time on ethics than is prescribed. I also ask each kid to identify a hunting mentor and then throughout the classes, homework is to ask them questions. Another problem is we have to teach to the lowest knowledge base. So the kids that have some experience get bored. Hard to teach the ethics of wind drift at 500 yards when a kid doesn't even know what a muzzle is.

Having said that, my opinion is similar to Buzz's. The kids that come in with attitudes that they know it all is very troubling. I can tell the influencers in their life are not good hunters. Another class later in life would be outstanding and could focus more on topics like ethics, wounding, long range shooting, etc.

One of the things I have noticed in my life is the statement that some make either just prior to wanting to break the law or after they do. "Nobody cares if....." Well, no. Somebody does care.

One example. Where we elk hunt in MT, we park the 4 wheeler a long ways away from where we think the elk might be and walk. Others drive illegal trails and blow all the elk out. Watched it happen. I am sure they somehow justified their actions, but I can tell you that my daughter and I didn't care much for their actions.

 

[rjthehunter]

2,000 yards is a hell of a shot for anyone. That being said, keep that kind of sh!t at the range. Walk over there, get within 600 yards, the antelope still won't know you're there unless you're upwind. A 600 yard shot is a lot more ethical than a 2,000 yard shot. I don't care how you get your animal, so long as it's an efficient way to kill.

 

[lastlight]

It’s not like antelopes live in terrain that doesn’t allow someone to get within 400 yards. So purposely taking a 2,000
Yard shot just to prove a point deserves to get open handed slapped at the least. The game we are after deserve respect. In a few years we will all see 3000+ yard shots and people defending them likes it’s no big deal. Sad!

 

[peterk1234]

Okay, so I'm new to shooting at distances greater than 100 yards. I was all happy last week shooting off the bench at 300 meters and getting four inch groups. Today I shot prone of my pack. 12 inches low. There was a 15 mph crosswind, but that should not really matter.


First, bench shooting is dead to me. Not real life. Second, if you can take an ethical shot at 600 yards then I'm impressed.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

One example. Where we elk hunt in MT, we park the 4 wheeler a long ways away from where we think the elk might be and walk. Others drive illegal trails and blow all the elk out. Watched it happen. I am sure they somehow justified their actions, but I can tell you that my daughter and I didn't care much for their actions.

Idiots gonna idiot out there. . .

Go to Portland or LA if you want to see what society is deteriorating to. We're already over-regulated, overtaxed and over spied on, lied to and trampled on by the gov't so I'm not voting for more regulations.

Now that 4 wheeler would make a great 2,000 yard target to practice on if no on one was on it or near it.

 

[ImBillT]

I foresee a magnification limit being introduced in the next couple of years.

Maybe, but what would it be? I killed my first mule deer at 470yds with a fixed 4X scope. What power scope would limit range to a distance that would make people happy? I have switched to higher power variable scopes, not to increase distance, but to make it easier to judge the antlers of the animal I’m shooting at. While glassing some bucks I decided which one I wanted to shoot, then I left my glass behind and shot the wrong buck with my fixed 6X scope. They were both decent bucks. It’s not like I shot a forky because I couldn’t tell, but they were no longer beside each other, and I couldn’t tell the exact antler configuration at 300yds and 6X. The other one was bigger. There are reasons for higher magnification other than extending range, and you can hit an animal at substantial range even at low power.

 

[ImBillT]

6X magnification

6X wouldn’t prevent me from hitting a deer at 1000yds(I shot a 1000yd f-class match with a 6X scope and beat over half the competitors in spite of a terrible first target that was shot with a 36X scope that had failed. Yes I swapped scopes during the match) but it would make it very difficult to know if the deer in my rifle scope was the same deer that had been in my spotting scope. The same is true for just about anyone. You don’t need as much magnification to hit what you’re aiming at as most people think.

 

[Mallardsx2]

^^^ Most people aren't as magnificently skilled as you.

 

[Hunter4Life78]

At the risk of getting everybody really upset I will say this. I knew an individual that had goal of shooting an elk at 1,000 yards. He connected on a shot that was very close to that. Elk got away only to found three days later. He was shooting a .300 Ultra Mag. More than capable of the distance based on what I've read.
.338 Lapua more than capable of that distance.(one of the most popular calibers and one of the most popular calibers to be returned and placed on consignment)
.30-06 capable of 1,000 yards.
.308 capable of 1,000 yards.
I liken long range shooting to cloning. Just because we are capable doesn't always mean we should.
In my younger years I did think about the long range shot. I took a shot at a mule deer at 647.5 yards according to the range finder. I missed and I'm glad I missed. That was when I decided that shots like that weren't really hunting in my mind. 3/4 of the fun was the stalk, I learned to play the wind, I learned to watch how animals reacted when they were jumped, and where the best place to was to maybe intercept them. If they weren't there did I miss them, did they go someplace else, that long miss taught me to slow down and try to outsmart the animals I was chasing.
That miss made me become a better hunter, it showed me to I needed to learn to be a hunter not a shooter. Well that and what the Old Man said when I told him about it. "You dip$#@t, you should've waited for him to drop down into the gully he was headed to and moved in on him...

Gotta love a father's words of wisdom when they come well after the fact....

 

[Mallardsx2]

I'm with Randy when he said "that anyone who would intentionally shoot from a distance at an animal for a challenge should have their license pulled"

Or something that that effect.

He might have said anyone "that intentionally gets further away"....either way, you get the point.

 

[WVmike]

Hunting for me is
#1: A way to enjoy the outdoors and have a glimpse of what it was like hundreds of years ago when the men and women were blazing trails had to procure their food
#2: Challenging to be able to hunt animals that are born to use their instincts to survive.
#3: A way to teach my kids of how life/death works and where food can come from

I’m primarily a rifle hunter but I started bow hunting about 5 years ago after getting out of the military. It is very rewarding to be able to shoot a deer at 400 yards and it drops where it stood but it also more enjoyable to be able to sneak in on a deer at 50 yards or less and be able to make a shot or for that matter just to sneak in that close and they don’t know your there. I never have understood why people like shooting animals out past 5-600 yards. Sure if your at the range and want to test your setup or your being shot at insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan, all range limits are off for that case especially with the weapons we used in the military but shooting an animal that you are hunting that’s different. A lot of people now a days like to buy these huge calibers like 300 win mag or even bigger and think if they shoot anywhere in the center they will die because it’s a huge caliber. I use a .308, .264, .223 or 7mm for whitetail and I’ve taught my son that shot placement is more important than over powering calibers. He shot his first deer last year with a .223 at a little more than 300 yards and hit the doe in the neck and she was dead before she hit the ground. My buddy bought a 300 prc a couple of years ago and he’s shot one deer with it and needless to say it was overkill especially for here in WV.

 

[ImBillT]

^^^ Most people aren't as magnificently skilled as you.

It’s not skill. You could do it too. High magnification is not required to make hits. My point is not that people should be shooting animals at very long distances. My point is that a magnification limitation is not the answer.

 

[JT88]

Lots of folks don't seem to get the difference between accuracy and precision. It doesn't matter if you can shoot a 1/2 moa group at 800 yards if the wind in the canyon you're shooting across pushes that group 10" back into the animal's guts... You have no room for error at long range, and neither does the rifle, the ammo, the weather, the scope... The animal

One shot to hit the bullseye on a living, breathing, creature. Target practice on wild game.

 

[Mallardsx2]

It’s not skill. You could do it too. High magnification is not required to make hits. My point is not that people should be shooting animals at very long distances. My point is that a magnification limitation is not the answer.

When you get out past 400-500 yards, a 6X scope isn't going to do 99% of "shooters" any good on a certain hold on a deer's vitals. And it would certainly eliminate any kind of certainty at the 600-1200 yard mark....

So, I'm going to disagree with you on this one and leave it at that.

 

[ImBillT]

When you get out past 400-500 yards, a 6X scope isn't going to do 99% of "shooters" any good on a certain hold on a deer's vitals. And it would certainly eliminate any kind of certainty at the 600-1200 yard mark....

So, I'm going to disagree with you on this one and leave it at that.

I think if you took the average shooter to a range full of 12” gongs from 100yds to 1000yds and had them shoot at 6X and at 24X you’d see very little difference in hit percentage between the two magnification levels. Some yahoos are going to shoot at great distance with no experience or skill whatsoever regardless of what scope magnification you limit them to. Some skilled shooters are going to shoot skillfully at great distances regardless of what magnification you limit them to. I think limiting magnification would reduce the long range shots slightly, but not by a lot.

I generally try to get inside 300yds, but if an animal I at risk of slipping away I’ll try to get the job done father. My farthest shot on an animal was 670yds and I don’t think I’d have filled that tag if I hadn’t taken the shots(yes more than one. I’m not anywhere near perfect). Only that animal and one more were over 400yds, and most were under 300yds. Still, at 6X with some brush or sticks in the background you can darn sure shot the wrong buck at under 300yds.

It’s my opinion that the majority of shooters who are flinging full magazines at distance game without making hits and in a potentially unsafe manner have no idea how far the animal is, or what kind of drop they’d get at that range, and I’m not convinced that limiting magnification would change what they’re doing.