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Houndmen Hall of Fame.....talk

Horn Seeker

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Lets talk a bit about some of the exploits of some of these guys. I actually only recognize one on the living page...Del Cameron. I've read at least some about all on the deceased page.

What can you guys tell me about the other living guys? I recently read Camerons book. Honestly, I wasn't impressed with his ego, but he's definitely a hell of a hound hunter.

There are a number of houndmen from Washington that have been at it just as long and caught as much game as Cameron, cant speak for the other nominees. Tell me some about them.

I'll tell you about a houndman in Washington, by the name of Bruddy Scott (yes, the first name is a nickname, I dont know his real name). He's been hunting dogs since he was a kid in Western Washington mainly. He was never bear hunter, stricly cats. He'd work as a logger when the weather permitted (in W. Washington the rainy season is NOT a good time to log) and cat hunted the rest of the time. He is a hell of an elk and deer hunter too, but cats were his thing.

When I was 12 years old or so I hunted with him and he had a dog named Jeff. Jeff was the greatest bobcat dog I've ever laid eyes on, bar none. There were several that approached his proess, but didn't quite match it. I could never say what kind of tree percentage Jeff had on tracks started, but I'll bet it was 75+%? May have been higher.

A lot of times in W. Wash the lower country wouldn't have snow all winter. Jeff struck bobcats off the box as good as most dogs will strike a bear, and it was a rare sight for him to take a backtrack. Anyhow, Bruddy made Jeff by hunting him, and hunting him smart too. Bruddy hunted most everyday from the end of November until the the middle of March. Back in the day of course, the bobcat hides were worth some dang good money, so it was worth it.

I wish I had lots of big flashy numbers to throw up about how many cats Bruddy has caught, but I dont. I'd wager to say there may not be another man thats caught the numbers of bobcats he has, and probably may never be. Who knows, thats just my opinion.

In the near 20 years I have hunted around Bruddy he's made a number of dogs. A couple acheived super stardom (in our eyes) like Jeff. His dogs were incredible well mannered too. They'd walk by his side until he released them with a voice command and he could call them off a track if he wanted or heel them off a tree if he wanted to leave a lion. Anyhow, I'm just rambling, but he is definitely "legendary" in my book. He wasn't a guide, so he didn't get to be famous and he almost always hunted alone too. We hunted with him 10 or so days a winter, thats how I got to know him.

Lets here about some other hellacious houndmen. I have been fortunate enough to hunt with several other guys I'd rank with anyone in the nation as far as game caught and dog making talent (my dad not the least of which). If you guys knew them they would rank on your "nominee list" for sure.

Good Luck All,

Ernie
 

HoundDawg

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Ernie,

I actually mentioned a similiar thing to Bruce. Hounding can often be a very "regional" thing... and many of the hound guys in my country don't really know anything about hound guys from Arizona, New Mexico or any other neighboring state. I have done alot of reading, etc... and I'm familiar with most of the guys on the list.

But noticably absent from the list were some of the great hound guys who have come out of Utah. Guys who never wrote books or had books written about them but just went out and caught tons of game in all conditions for years and years.

Of course we all know about the Lee Brothers and Ben Lilly. But Ben Lilly was a master at self promotion. I wonder what other hound guys back in his time were roaming around... maybe guys that were just as capable but kept a real low profile. I dunno. Just speculation I guess.

There was an old hound guy from Utah named Willis Butolph and I've heard some old timers tell stories about Willis. Those stories were more entertaining than any Ben Lilly story I've ever heard. We had an old hound guy telling us stories about him one time in bear camp and we could have listened to those stories for 14 hours straight.

I think the list has great hound guys on it. But I'm certain there are an equal number of great hound guys that have come and gone, or are hunting right now... that may never get public recognition. And my guess is many of them wouldn't want any.

It would be cool to see what kind of hunters have just slid under the radar the last 100 years.
 

Horn Seeker

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You are right on the money Dawg. I agree 100%! The regional thing is for certain. Like I said, I know and know of several guys in Washington state that have hunted as long and caught as much game as anyone,(and I say that just because it would be nearly physically impossible to have hunted more!!) but no one knows their names.

Yeah, and you are probably right about the guys under the radar during Bens time. Did you ever read a book called "Meet Mr. Grizzly" or something like that. It was about an old boy in Arizona or NM named Montague Stevens. That is a good read.

Ernie
 

HoundDawg

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Horn Seeker,

There was an old houndsman in my country. He died of old age about 8 or 10 years ago. I remember seeing his Obituary in Full Cry but had already heard plenty about him.

He was a bear hunter and nobody in this country caught more bears, well actually nobody caught half as many. He wasn't the friendliest or sociable guy and his hunting circle was very small. He was famous locally but pretty much went under the radar for the most part outside of Utah.

He knew what he wanted in a bear dog and he culled HEAVILY to get those dogs. But what he ended up with was a pack of bear dogs second to none. They would fight and stick long after other dogs had given up.

He once told an oldtimer I know, "Any bear can be treed, no matter how bad he is." This old timer told me, "I've come to learn that he was wrong, that some bears cannot be treed no matter how many or how tough your dogs are."

Then he paused for a second and told me, "Then again, I've never had dogs like he did so maybe I'm the one that's wrong."

You don't hear his name mentioned much about cats but when it came to bear hunting, he was the MAN for many years and everybody else was just trying to keep up.

You won't find any books written about him but if you can find an oldtimer around here that knew him, you'll hear stories of dogs that would swarm a bad bear!! Dogs that wouldn't back down until they were dead or beat unconcious. An oldtimer I know went hunting with him when he was young.

He said they caught a bad bear and he still remembers how his dogs looked, one had a rib poking out of it's side, just beaten and mangled and battered... but they caught that bear and held it.

There just aren't any bear dogs left like that around these parts. Some guys claim to have some of his blood line but it's not true. A friend of his said just before he died of cancer he told his boys to go out and shoot all of his dogs, that they were all crossing over together.
 

Ithaca 37

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I can't believe Cap Atwood from Rifle, CO wasn't on the Hall of Fame list. I met Cap about 30 years ago and learned lots from him. I doubt anyone in CO ever caught more lions and bears.

"As one of the country's most widely known hound men over the past 50 years, Cameron also gives, in a chapter titled "Trip To The Southwest," a revealing sketch of some of the country's older famous lion hunters at that time such as the legendary Jack Butler, Dale and Clell Lee, Garn Blackburn, Smoke Emett, Willis Butolph, Cap Atwood and others. A foreword by Pete Evans, 82 ..."

http://www.callofthehounds.com/about_the_book.htm
 

Bruce A. Kennedy

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I will try to explain or answer some of your questions. I am the "messenger" or the vote counter for the Hall of Fame Ballots, nothing more. I had nothing to do with the names that are on the ballot. The nomination process has been going on since September. Now the actual voting is in progress You see, we are running out of time to get the plaques and such ordered and being able to present them on time.

Yes, there are many people who are not on the list, but they were not nominated. The term "Houndsmen" applies to coon hunters as well, and there is not a single coon hunter on the list, because they were not nominated. There are many coon hunters who raised hounds their entire lives, and contributed greatly to the sport of big game hunting with hounds.

I don't think it is fair to say the list looks "regionalised", because it is not. Had somebody nominated a person from Alaska, that name would appear on the ballot.

I believe every name on the list is well deserving of being on the ballot. A few are going in the Hall of Fame this year, and the others, as well as many new ones, can be nominated next year.

This is the first year for all of this, and nothing is ever 100% correct. We will look at the process for this year, and see where we can improve, and make it better next year and the year after that.

I will say this about almost all of the lion and bear hunters, and that is they do not want the publicity. They can live 2 miles down the road for 30 years, and you might not know who they are. That is why people in Arizona do not know who the best lion hunter in Idaho is. They know among themselves, but the general public does not know them.

On another note, for those who are planning to attend, you need to let us know as soon as possible. Things are going to be happening pretty quick now. For more information,


CLICK HERE.
 

HoundDawg

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Bruce,

I didn't mean to sound critical and wasn't accusing your list of being "regionalized".

I think this is really cool and only wish I'd have known about it sooner. I'd have liked to nominate one or two guys. I realize also that you are just the messenger.

Again, I think what you are doing with this ballot and everything is really cool. It just got me thinking about all the others.

It's different from sports because it's not played on a national stage. Hounding is done out in the wild with sometimes only 1 witness or spectator.

I think what you have done is get the ball rolling and I think this list is a pretty good one. Every year now it should get bigger and as more people learn of it, the list of nominees will get longer.

If you got the impression I was being critical of this nomination and voting process then I'm not making myself very clear. Because I think it's awesome!!

And really if you think about it... it kind of makes sense that many on the list would be from the Southwest. Many of the books on hounding are about the Lee Bros. or Ben Lilly... and then the Frank Hibben books deal with that country as does Harley Shaw's book. So while I know of some Utah hunters, the only other "famous" lion hunters I know about are from Arizona or New Mexico. So it kind of stands to reason.

I actually can't name one single lion hunter from Idaho, Washington or Oregon, or even Nevada for that matter. I guess that's what I mean by regional... besides what I've read in books, I know very little about houndsmen outside of my little circle.

Keep up the good work cuz I think this is a fantastic idea!!

Hornseeker, I know an old hound guy in southern Utah that speaks VOLUMES about Cap Atwood. He kind of idolizes the guy and that alone really tells me something. I had forgotten about him. But Butolph, Butler and Blackburn were a couple of names I had in mind as well. Especially Willis.

You should hear the stories Van tells about him. PRICELESS!!
 

Bruce A. Kennedy

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Houndawg, no, no, I did not think you or anybody was being critical at all. I was only trying to explain it a little.

As soon as the Expo is over in March, we will start the new nomination process, and depending how many are nominated, we might bring in more than 2 or 3 into the Hall of Fame.

The ballots are really coming in, so if any of you haven't cast a ballot, please do so. Even if will not attend the Expo, cast a ballot. It is your Hall of Fame and it will be as good as you all make it.

Take care.
 

HoundDawg

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You know Bruce, you brought up an interesting point in an earlier post...

What about coon hunters? In much of the country coon hunting is a huge deal. To be honest with you, besides John Wick I don't really know any good coon hunters.

But his accomplishments in the coon world are second to none... there is a guy who probably deserves a serious look for a Hall of Fame hound dogger.

A question for you. So the top 2 or 3 will be elected into the Hall of Fame. Realistically, you have to figure Ben Lilly and the Lee Brothers are in... so maybe one other guy.

Will the nominees who don't make it this time around be rolled over for next year and be eligible again, or will they have to be re-nominated?

Just curious. It might be worth the trip down to Silver City. Who knows if the ghost of Ben Lilly or Dale Lee might just come strolling in and belly up to the bar?
 

HoundDawg

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PS...

Hey Bruce,

Don't know if you have posted the info about the Expo on the MM site but a number of hound guys hang out over there.

www.monstermuleys.com, Hounding Forum. You should post the Expo information over there as well.

Take care.
 

Horn Seeker

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I too want to make sure you know I wasnt criticizing the list Bruce. I'll ditto all the stuff Dawg said, he says it so nicely and I dont like typing.

Dawg, a lot of people dont like to hear about culling, but its the best thing a guy can do for the hound world. When people keep a cull and it breeds then things just get phucked up.

The guy I talk about from North East Washington would go into a tree that had 10 dogs under it and come out with 6. Sometimes it seemed harsh or excessive, but he didn't have time to let those others "develop".
 

smalls

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I knew I smelled something funny when I logged on here! This is my first day on moosies sight and I knew that I smelled that dirty old HOUNDAWG!!! Doesn't the stench coming from your crotch throw off the dogs when you cut a track? just wondering!

smalls
 

HoundDawg

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Amigo,

I got stench coming from a lot more places than just my crotch!!!

Every orifice, crack or crevice I have eminates a foul odor!!!

That's why I figure I got the best dogs on the planet. If they can trail anything with me nearby they must be fantastic!!!
tongue.gif
 

Moosie

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I'm guessing there is a Joke with the Name here but maybe not....

ANYONE ?

The following message was sent to you via the Hunt Talk Contact Us form by JAY MORTENSEN.
--------------------------------
I AM THE GRANDSON OF WILLIS BUTOLPH. I WOULD LOVE TO LEARN ALL I CAN ABOUT HIM. I ALSO MIGHT HAVE SOME HISTORY ON HIM IF ANYONE CARES????
--------------------------------
Referring Page: http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4482

IP Address: 70.58.111.63
User Name: Unregistered
User ID: 0
 

Ike

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Moosie

Moosie said:
I'm guessing there is a Joke with the Name here but maybe not....

ANYONE ?

The following message was sent to you via the Hunt Talk Contact Us form by JAY MORTENSEN.
--------------------------------
I AM THE GRANDSON OF WILLIS BUTOLPH. I WOULD LOVE TO LEARN ALL I CAN ABOUT HIM. I ALSO MIGHT HAVE SOME HISTORY ON HIM IF ANYONE CARES????
--------------------------------
Referring Page: http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4482

IP Address: 70.58.111.63
User Name: Unregistered
User ID: 0

I believe he was an old government trapper and lion hunter out of Wellington, Utah. I spent a few days on the old Wilcox Ranch in Range Creek two years ago and they had some photos of him in their albumns at the ranch. It seems that ranch was one of the people ADC or the government trappers serviced????

Ikehump
 
S

sarasaZ

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Subject3

Honestly dialect beside me doubts on count that that you has written,
since I found on sites 1
, 2 in which write about quite other...
 

SleepyHollow

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Hounds and Hunters

Hounddawg
I am new to this site and was reading a little and was woundering if you have ever heard of DEE Demoss? He apparently had one heck of a pack of plotts. Another man who has cought a ton of game is Leo Dollins from the U.P. of Michigan. We curantly have some of his blood and wow are the awsome dogs.
 

eddog

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Western USA
Moosie.........I am new to this web site and saw your request for info. about your Grand Father Willis Butolph. Well....I, hunted, bought 5 dogs, one outstanding horse, caught several lions and even gave him a ride from his home in Wellington, Ut. to Sundance, Wy. on a very cold winters night so he could attend your Great Grand Fathers funeral.
I would like to talk with you. Eddog
 

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