New Mexico Landowner tags. ELK Hunters

[hunter72]

I have been on most of these sites for quite some time. there are times I PM a few hunters and other times I ready and when I get a little upset, I will indicate my view on the subject.
On just about every site, I have been on and listened and indicated PM'd a few for a little advice.
The one thing I hear so much on these sites excluding the Hunts is the LO tag Base and how unfair it is for the LO to be in the 10% of the Draw. Residents complain and most Nonresidents complain at least the ones who cannot afford to go on a Guided hunt even if it's the first 2 days a guide is required.
Here are my 2 cents on all this that I have been reading. The big question is WHY! Why does the LO base have any more rights in the Draw? Take away the LO base and make it right by all who put in for these tags. Gives the NR a little better chance and put them all on the same page sort of speak. The ordinary Joe putting in for a NR tag in most situations it too damn expensive and they cannot afford to put in for a LO tag. The cost is outrages. LO are making a killing as it is charging anywhere from 6500.00 to 10,000.00 and up for a guided trip on that property as it is. then on top of that picking up all the LO clients they can for x amount of Dollars is absolutely crazy. when does the dollar amount in all these cases become enough. It's always about the Dollar and nothing else. Look what an NR pays for a tag in NM and look what they pay for a Regular License and that goes to the state if not drawn. So, with the NR percentages being so low in the draw because of the low percentages taken away from the DIY hunter those percentages drop to .5 percent up to maybe just maybe 3 percent in some units. It's crazy. So, the Whiners stop and think of how if you were in those situations how much whining you would have. No one should complain about the low percents the NR has period. If you want to complain then complain to the dept or your system that come up with these idiot ideas in the first place. Take away the LO base and make a difference to all. 90% 10% across the board. How about 80% 20 % across the board now listen to the complaints? would absolutely love to hear from a few more hunters on their thoughts about this matter.

 

[WapitiBob]

I think you're confused with regard to LO vouchers and the Outfitter Draw. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[SAJ-99]

Why does the LO base have any more rights…

See previous explanation to your rant. Only thing I would add is the LO has to endure the expense of the game animals on the landscape of the ranch, I.e. eating grass meant for cattle. This is a complicated discussion, regardless of state. I think there was a thread on it in the NM state board where people gave a lot of opinion and insight.

 

[hunter72]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone here or might have put it down a little wrong. But if a Nr whom wants a guide to guide him around still with no guarantees that is his privilege. But those individuals who want that is great but should have to go into the draw with everyone else so that all NR have the same equal chance to draw. If you think or anyone thinks different, I will agree if someone thinks that is a fair Process. The process is BS and most know it is an unjust process. So, my Rant as you call it is just doing it a fair process.
No one says one whom wants a guide can use a guide just go through the draw equally then hire out if you think it's a better way to kill your animal. That is what I was trying to say. No more No Less. just equality!!!

 

[hunter72]

On another reply Land that is eaten by animals outside of the Fence sort of speak is why the landowner has the right and which most due, that is to have the land hunted upon with the number of hunters needed not only to help with justifying what grass land those wild animals eat but also help with the tax base. This happens with many other ranches much of those funds are taken to help with the things described.
Not saying one thing right or wrong about a Landowner does what he/she need to, to offset whatever the funds they get from out of state hunting/ in state hunters also if they want to hunt a piece of property. What I'm saying once again is anyone who want to hire a guide can to so to hunt private or whatever but must go through the draw equally no one should have a better chance because a LO or outfitter put him in for a hunt. The draw should be fair across the board equally. Ask where? the $160. license fee goes from the thousands of NR that don't get draw. Plus, the Majority of those NR have about >5 to maybe, again May 35 because the (I'll put it this way) the whomever takes that huge 5 away because now they are going under another license, so they have a better chance to draw. fair that BS. Those ppl are not going to complain its bucks in their pocket but taking away from the normal everyday working man that wants to do something different. Fair that BS.

 

[hunter72]

.5% or maybe 3% excuse the 5 or 35 in other words 1/2% or maybe up to 3% pretty darn low draw odds.

 

[SAJ-99]

No more No Less. just equality!!!

Life ain't fair. That should be your starting point. I get your argument, but as has been pointed out, you are conflating LO and outfitters as if they are interchangeable. 90% of the people on this board might have an opinion but just play by the rules the various states set. Their opinion on a specific state and its rules doesn't matter. NM has great elk hunting because they don't do the same as MT and give every resident a tag and 8 weeks to kill an elk with various weapons. You seem to be upset because you don't have higher draw odds. Take it up with your local rep.

 

[hunter72]

about the LO and outfitter draws its also brought to my attention that many outfitters work through the LO or in some case lease through the LO for a fee of course then on top of that they can hunt the property outside where we all hunt. So, in many cases the Lo and outfitters work hand in hand one way or another. some do some don't, but the license used to help Res and NR with a better % to is wrong. everyone puts in the same 90-10% isn't that fair for all. whom even cares if it is 94 and 6% the point is that 6 % should be a straight draw for every NR who applies. any other way is BS.

 

[Dave N]

Man, that's hard to read. Try typing something we can follow and understand.

 

[SAJ-99]

any other way is BS.

Again there is a thread on the NM board for this. Take back your elk or something. You will find a lot of residents of other states completely on board with the F—k the NR! View. As long as you are willing to pay all the bills, I say go for it.

 

[hunter72]

sorry Dave I just write what comes out my mouth. sorry about that.
My point being for all NR that put in for NM. would have a much better chance if we all put in and had the same draw odds.
Now we dont. If a NR wants to hire a guide, outfitter is fine. many of those outfitters are hunting on private and use a license for some to get a better chance in the draw.
I think that is wrong. that 6% or 10 % then we should all have the same % within that draw.
By the time the outfitter or whomever takes there % away from the NR pool your chances drop to .5 % and maybe up to 3 % maybe.
That is all I was trying to say Dave and sorry as I type faster than my mouth can go LOL
I'd just like to see it fair for all NR many can't pay the Outfitters or whom ever has a license to apply for someone else. so, with that we have such a low % is why there are many that have waited 5-8 years and no tag.

 

[hunter72]

SAJ99 LOL a little upset are we. slow down its only a site with views and we all have them. We are now bound by the rule of the way it is. right or wrong it is what it is.
frustration will get you know where.
And I will continue to see it the way I see it.
There are many that see it the same way. NR and Res.
but with that it still means nothing as it is what it is. So SAJ99 grab a Beer sit back and relax and you will be fine in a few.

 

[SAJ-99]

I'm not upset at all. Just trying to help you come off the ledge. I have no control over any of it because it is NM (and you're from OR so WT actual F?). Please "just say 'no'" to day drinking.
I get emails all the time from NM about bargain deal from cancellations. I don't do them because paying upwards of 10k (that is with the discount) for a chance at an elk seems extreme, but I love the capitalism.

What tag are you upset you can't draw?

 

[hunter72]

SAJ99 those other states that have the few that say F--K the out of staters were definitely in the Military. Because we all stood for one another and fought side by side and carried those out whom were in arms way. And You know what It didn't matter to me if he was from Louisiana, NM, CO, MT, OR, or CA. If I were you and some said that to me, I'd say F--k You, you piece of Piece of you know what. But that's only me. Been there done that and speak what I think is right and not afraid to say when I'm wrong.

 

[hunter72]

SAJ99 I'm not upset about me not drawing a tag as I have Bow Hunted for 35+ years and killed many Elk and Muley's and Blacktails and Rosies But for my son is whom I want to draw an elk tag. The way this country today is going I worry about my Grandkids My great grand kids and the stupidity of the way this country is ran. but that's another story.
If he is lucky in 24 will be a blessing in disguise but we will continue until we don't. But it's all good as we have places to hunt every year. Now its duck season then we will go into our chinook salmon season then hope to draw a NM or AZ tag if not then MT and OR.

 

[David658]

Honestly, I have little sympathy for a Non Resident complaining about the system. Hard enough already for us residents! (tongue partly in cheek there)

I don't like parts of the system here - too much money made by selling tags, but my upbringing did not contain the concept of selling a tag. Just where I came from, I guess.

LO tags that remain ranch only do not give me any heartburn, at all. Part of the LO tag criteria is improvements made to habitat. Seems a good trade for ranch-only tags, unit-wide not so much.

I do have heartburn with unit-wide tags, those are most of the ones sold to out of state folks for $$$. The biggest pisser of that, to me, is that the outfitters around here will not take money from a "local" (definition of which varies from outfitter to outfitter), for fear the local will give away the honey holes. So even if I want to buy a hunt, the guys around here won't sell me one. Nice, huh?

The E-Plus system has some very good points, but is best described as needing an overhaul. When in the final analysis the numbers show that over 50% of NM elk tags go NR, in my humble and very possibly wrong opinion, the system is not working in favor of the citizens of NM.

I'd say this would be a good conversation to have around the fire with a pint, but nahhh. There are some very dearly held opinions on this topic, and I prefer a quiet night around the fire.

David
NM

 

[hunter72]

SAJ99 You did know that MT has one of the largest elk populations in the US. Some there don't like the NR but the state sure does with the revenue it brings in. They, MT has to give the number of tags out along with the dates being so far out in order to keep the herds in check. One nice thing on a general tag You can Bow Hunt Then You Can Muzzy hunt, then you can pick up your rifle and hunt, they actually want you to kill an animal. with all that It's really hard to believe that many do not kill an animal. I don't know how but they don't. So for many that is the last resort. But its all good.

 

[SAJ-99]

Again, just say ‘No’ to day drinking.

 

[TheTone]

There is a reason the influencer crowd and hunting industry hunts NM elk so much and it’s the huge pile of easy to get landowner tags

 

[Khunter]

I kinda get what the OP is trying to say.

I will say this. You will get nowhere if not willing to slow down and thoughtfully organize first, and second, share the thoughts and points you have to make.

This is a jumbled mess.

The privatization of a public resource (elk) by NMGFD is a failure of their charge to manage the resource primarily for the benefit of residents.

The LO vouchers are excessive and mostly land in nonres pockets. And the guided draw set aside is also abusive.