Crimes against MT wildlife. Just another issue out of alignment? Where’s the justice?

[Raisin Bran]

I have been reading over the years about the different poaching cases in Montana and in every single case I feel the punishment never aligns to match the crime. Especially when it comes to time served. Why is that? Should we be calling for higher fines and stiffer penalties knowing that the actual result will be half or less of what is law? Why aren’t the perps hunting privileges taken away for life? Is my thinking to harsh and old fashioned? Where do you think the solution(s) are if there are any?

Here’s the latest post:

Eight Men Sentenced For Garfield County Wildlife Violations | Montana FWP

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks recently wrapped up a case involving multiple wildlife violations in Garfield County committed by a Jordan man, a South Carolina man and two of his sons, and four other non-residents. The last of their court cases concluded in Montana in November of 2022.

fwp.mt.gov

Between the state of Montana selling off our wildlife like it’s the FTX Bitcoin scheme and the wealthy Elites thinking the wildlife are their personal pets because they own the land, and then when it seems like “justice“ might be served…..another swift kick to the pearls!

 

[TheTone]

Call the judge and prosecutor and let them know the sentence stinks and tell them why. They work for you

 

[Raisin Bran]

Call the judge and prosecutor and let them know the sentence stinks and tell them why. They work for you

Our wonderful state representatives work for us too and when was the last time talking to them worked out? Judges and prosecutors are interpreting the laws that have been enacted within the state by the states representatives. Just like any of the other hot topics that are discussed on HT this is another one that needs to see more action than words. All crimes of poaching should come with a mandatory lifetime ban on hunting within the state the crimes happened in.

 

[MTGomer]

In 2011, months before turning 21, I attended a bonfire near Basin, between Butte and Helena, where Instood around said fire with my friends and drank a couple of beers. A USFS cop saw it and called the sheriff, whose deputies came and cited us for MIP.

Not to make light of underage drinking, but at 20 years old, I was an adult with my own life, job, money, taxpayer etc, it’s not like I was a 14 year old skipping school to get shit faced. The consequences for that were worse than most the folks in the article faced.

 

[TheTone]

In 2011, months before turning 21, I attended a bonfire near Basin, between Butte and Helena, where Instood around said fire with my friends and drank a couple of beers. A USFS cop saw it and called the sheriff, whose deputies came and cited us for MIP.

Not to make light of underage drinking, but at 20 years old, I was an adult with my own life, job, money, taxpayer etc, it’s not like I was a 14 year old skipping school to get shit faced. The consequences for that were worse than most the folks in the article faced.

I watched a east Idaho judge absolutely berate and shame a couple 17 year olds once for underage smoking. Without question they got the harsher talking to of anyone I saw that day. It was ridiculous

 

[thusby]

In 2011, months before turning 21, I attended a bonfire near Basin, between Butte and Helena, where Instood around said fire with my friends and drank a couple of beers. A USFS cop saw it and called the sheriff, whose deputies came and cited us for MIP.

Not to make light of underage drinking, but at 20 years old, I was an adult with my own life, job, money, taxpayer etc, it’s not like I was a 14 year old skipping school to get shit faced. The consequences for that were worse than most the folks in the article faced.

I know a guy who did 7 days in a Wyoming jail for underage drinking.

 

[rogerthat]

Yep ban them for life. Maybe it would help point creep

 

[Doublecluck]

I got a buddy who legitimately feeds his family with wild game. Probably 250-300 days a year they eat wild game. One day late season he asks a rancher if he can go whack a doe for the freezer. Drives down nameless county road in the middle of nowhere, gets within couple hundred yards of the deer in the grain field, gets out, walks thru the ditch and rests his rifle on a fence post and shoots a doe. Tags it with his own tag, guts it with his wife and just as they are throwing it in the truck along comes the warden. Hunter on a neighbors who was waiting for a big buck to come out of the field called thinking they didn’t have permission. Since he had not stepped over the fence he was cited, strangely enough for a code intended to keep people from hazing elk. Lost his license for 2 years and paid like 1000 dollar fine. Wasn’t trying to write internet stories or brag to his buddies with insta photos. He just made a mistake, didn't know he had to be over the fence. I’m sure he loves to read stories like this.

 

[jmcd]

That’s MT for you. The stuff Wardens let slide, let alone won’t bother to even look at, vs the offenses they go balls-deep in is pretty astounding. Then, if cited, the penalties that some of these guys get is laughable.
As said above, about all you can do is let ‘em know your disgust.

 

[Raisin Bran]

I got a buddy who legitimately feeds his family with wild game. Probably 250-300 days a year they eat wild game. One day late season he asks a rancher if he can go whack a doe for the freezer. Drives down nameless county road in the middle of nowhere, gets within couple hundred yards of the deer in the grain field, gets out, walks thru the ditch and rests his rifle on a fence post and shoots a doe. Tags it with his own tag, guts it with his wife and just as they are throwing it in the truck along comes the warden. Hunter on a neighbors who was waiting for a big buck to come out of the field called thinking they didn’t have permission. Since he had not stepped over the fence he was cited, strangely enough for a code intended to keep people from hazing elk. Lost his license for 2 years and paid like 1000 dollar fine. Wasn’t trying to write internet stories or brag to his buddies with insta photos. He just made a mistake, didn't know he had to be over the fence. I’m sure he loves to read stories like this.

A few years back me and my brother and dad were Antelope hunting opening day in Eastern Mt. I killed an average buck just after first light. We always prefer places where we can walk in and get away from everyone so I was in about 2 miles from the truck. No big deal. I boned the buck out and headed towards the truck. My dad and brother were still out chasing their bucks so unloaded the meat out of my pack and laid it out in the back of the truck to cool off. I headed back out to find my family and help pack out if needed as I heard a few shots in their general direction. Never caught up to them so mid morning decided to head back to the truck. As I got to the truck I noticed my dad and brother were there with a Mt Game warden. I walked up and the game warden asked if this was my Antelope. I said yes. He must have been just out of school and we were his first game check of his career. He seemed nervous but proceeded to ask me where my proof of sex was on this animal. I pointed at the head and said right there. He said that is not enough and that I needed to have his male parts attached to the meat for proof of sex. I paused, shook my head and said, “I totally forgot those, will you let me go retrieve them or come with me to the kill sight and I can prove to you the sex?” He said ”No, they have to be attached to the meat I am going to write you a ticket.” He walked back to his truck and did just that. No consideration. I have a perfect driving record and HAD a perfect no game violation record until that happened!!!

The very next year FWP changed the rules to proof of sex does not have to be attached!!! I cannot participate in any of the Ambassador Hunting programs through MT because I have this on my record!

I will always be very leery and less trusting of any FWP Game warden because of that one interaction.

 

[hank4elk]

In 2011, months before turning 21, I attended a bonfire near Basin, between Butte and Helena, where Instood around said fire with my friends and drank a couple of beers. A USFS cop saw it and called the sheriff, whose deputies came and cited us for MIP.

Not to make light of underage drinking, but at 20 years old, I was an adult with my own life, job, money, taxpayer etc, it’s not like I was a 14 year old skipping school to get shit faced. The consequences for that were worse than most the folks in the article faced.

When I lived in Basin,MT I was living above the bar for a week. 1st night in town with a retired Navy welder and I tore the place apart and sent 2 to the Dr. Guy grabbed my ponytail. I returned blows.
The boss was pissed at the locals & introduced their new foreman, me. I was 19.
I never saw a cop the whole time I was there in Basin. Underaged drinking was out of control up there.

 

[Ought Six]

I think this thread is getting off track fast, but I like where it’s going. MT game wardens taught me not to trust them and that honesty for an honest mistake will just end in a ticket, same with MT police lol

 

[rogerthat]

I think this thread is getting off track fast, but I like where it’s going. MT game wardens taught me not to trust them and that honesty for an honest mistake will just end in a ticket, same with MT police lol

Yeah I agree and have a pretty good story on that but where I have landed is that it’s not their job to decide if the mistake was honest. Commit the crime do the time!!

 

[Raisin Bran]

Yeah I agree and have a pretty good story on that but where I have landed is that it’s not their job to decide if the mistake was honest. Commit the crime do the time!!

I would agree that you are neither right nor wrong. It lies somewhere in the middle and relates to the beginning of the thread. The time doesn’t match the crime!!

 

[antlerradar]

Yeah I agree and have a pretty good story on that but where I have landed is that it’s not their job to decide if the mistake was honest. Commit the crime do the time!!

Your are right, it is not the game wardens job to decide if the ticket is fair. That is the job of the prosecutor and the judge.

 

[Nameless Range]

When I lived in Basin,MT I was living above the bar for a week. 1st night in town with a retired Navy welder and I tore the place apart and sent 2 to the Dr. Guy grabbed my ponytail. I returned blows.
The boss was pissed at the locals & introduced their new foreman, me. I was 19.
I never saw a cop the whole time I was there in Basin. Underaged drinking was out of control up there.

20 years ago, which I assume relative to your time in Basin was many years later, an 18 year old kid from a few miles north of there had an ID that said his name was Bret Lorenzo from Lansing, Michigan, and that he was 23 years old - and the underaged drinking at the Silver Saddle Bar in Basin, MT was still out of control.....


In terms of these poachers, we need to start taking it more seriously.

 

[hank4elk]

20 years ago, which I assume relative to your time in Basin was many years later, an 18 year old kid from a few miles north of there had an ID that said his name was Bret Lorenzo from Lansing, Michigan, and that he was 23 years old - and the underaged drinking at the Silver Saddle Bar in Basin, MT was still out of control.....


In terms of these poachers, we need to start taking it more seriously.

View attachment 263185

I'm old ...1975 and I lived in the Silver Saddle for a month. Til I moved to an old homestead cabin on a creek. Creek for water and an outhouse. My time in Basin was as far back in time as I needed to go.