Wyoming Unit 7

perma

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It's not all elk staying on sanctuaries...there's plenty of lazy elk hunters too.

Plus, there's problems with the elk tags being used on the refuge hunts too.

Another problem is that weather can really make it tough to access elk.

I will be apposed to unit 7 going general. Lots of ways to kill elk there that haven't been tried.
Is your comment in reference to type 1, type 2 or both? Type 2 is clearly the harder one but based on the map, I can understand the creative hunter may be able to harvest.
 

madtom

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I’ve killed 8 cows in 8 years in area 7, averaging 1-3 days of hunting per year on public land. People simply will not walk for cows in that unit. It’s windy, cold, and there are plenty of roads to drive and hope for low hanging fruit that most never find.

I have no clue how going general for cows only helps anything when they already give out cow tags like parade candy.

I think there are several ways to increase harvest opportunity (especially on bulls) without offering a general season.
 

BuzzH

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Is your comment in reference to type 1, type 2 or both? Type 2 is clearly the harder one but based on the map, I can understand the creative hunter may be able to harvest.
All and the type 6 and 7 tags too. Opening this unit to general bull/cow hunting will make the problem of over objective elk worse...not even up for debate. All it will do is push elk onto sanctuaries even earlier and quicker.

The way to reduce elk numbers is to kill COWS, not bulls. The way to do that is to keep the elk accessible. That means having hunters be smart about getting them killed. One clown can run elk off for days and even weeks if they shoot the joint to pieces. If an area is hunted smartly, just slip into the edge of a herd, kill an elk or 2 with one shot each, not jump around like a cheerleader after you kill one...that herd isn't going far and will be back.

Shoot the place to pieces, sling lead and push them hard, its over maybe for the rest of the season.

I also think it's worth exploring having rest days on some of the HMA's to allow the elk to settle down and move back onto them. Continual day after day pounding on them, they won't come back.

Maybe even staggering seasons a bit more, closing them for 5-7 day stretches to let elk move back onto them.

I've also thought about pairing good elk hunters with landowners that normally don't allow access. Build the trust and once a landowner knows they have a responsible group of guys that know how to get elk killed, it can become an annual thing. 20 guys that know how to get elk killed are going to be more effective than 100 that haven't a clue.

The answers are not always about just issuing more tags, getting more hunters in the field, or even getting more access.

It really boils down to getting elk hunters that know what they're doing access...that's the way you thin elk out, seen it, done it.
 

Birddog916

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Could the drive to make unit 7 general really be the loss of NR tag fees if the legislature adopts the 90-10 task force recommendation? If the plan is to increase tags overall in 7 and 19 it would in theory increase revenue. Just to be clear, I’m a NR who has hunted zone 7 many times, and feels there are already too many tags issued in some 7.
 

perma

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The answers are not always about just issuing more tags, getting more hunters in the field, or even getting more access

It really boils down to getting elk hunters that know what they're doing access...that's the way you thin elk out, seen it, done it.

This can be said about a lot of other units. Just being more thoughtful and smarter when you hunt will solve a lot of issues.
 

Addicting

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All and the type 6 and 7 tags too. Opening this unit to general bull/cow hunting will make the problem of over objective elk worse...not even up for debate. All it will do is push elk onto sanctuaries even earlier and quicker.

The way to reduce elk numbers is to kill COWS, not bulls. The way to do that is to keep the elk accessible. That means having hunters be smart about getting them killed. One clown can run elk off for days and even weeks if they shoot the joint to pieces. If an area is hunted smartly, just slip into the edge of a herd, kill an elk or 2 with one shot each, not jump around like a cheerleader after you kill one...that herd isn't going far and will be back.

Shoot the place to pieces, sling lead and push them hard, its over maybe for the rest of the season.

I also think it's worth exploring having rest days on some of the HMA's to allow the elk to settle down and move back onto them. Continual day after day pounding on them, they won't come back.

Maybe even staggering seasons a bit more, closing them for 5-7 day stretches to let elk move back onto them.

I've also thought about pairing good elk hunters with landowners that normally don't allow access. Build the trust and once a landowner knows they have a responsible group of guys that know how to get elk killed, it can become an annual thing. 20 guys that know how to get elk killed are going to be more effective than 100 that haven't a clue.

The answers are not always about just issuing more tags, getting more hunters in the field, or even getting more access.

It really boils down to getting elk hunters that know what they're doing access...that's the way you thin elk out, seen it, done it.
Won’t make one bit of difference in getting it back into objective. Even if you could somehow screen only the best hunters. There is just too many elk and too big of country. 12,000 elk producing 7000 calves yearly and you can still only manage to kill 5000. Even with the other mortality the herd continues to grow.

7 needs to be broken up into sub units and have very generous amount of tags issued. Both bull and cows, not necessarily general. Each one needs an access coordinator directly coordinating it. Lastly they need to do some culling, CWD testing, and meat donation till they get those numbers to work.
 

BuzzH

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Won’t make one bit of difference in getting it back into objective. Even if you could somehow screen only the best hunters. There is just too many elk and too big of country. 12,000 elk producing 7000 calves yearly and you can still only manage to kill 5000. Even with the other mortality the herd continues to grow.

7 needs to be broken up into sub units and have very generous amount of tags issued. Both bull and cows, not necessarily general. Each one needs an access coordinator directly coordinating it. Lastly they need to do some culling, CWD testing, and meat donation till they get those numbers to work.
I disagree, the elk there may be over objective but the objective of 5k elk in a unit that size is too low, a joke really.

No reason to cull, and if the GF wants to start that shit, they are going to get major pushback. There is no reason to cull for any reason including CWD, prevalence in 7 has remained at 5% forever.

Sub units won't do a bit of good either because those elk are very mobile, here today gone tomorrow. All you would do is limit hunters to smaller areas that at times would hold few, if any elk.

I've hunted that herd a lot, mainly helping friends, but I've shot a bunch myself too. I've witnessed what goes on, and the average elk hunters I see are clueless out there. That's the problem, many can't even find elk even though they're in huntable stuff. If they find them, many won't hike for a cow. If they hike to them, most couldn't sneak up on a glass of water. Of those that do get close enough to shoot, its more than likely going to end with a medium to large pile of spent brass at their feet....maybe or maybe not a dead elk out yonder.

That results in those elk moving to parts unknown or into areas the average elk hunter won't find them again.

The right elk hunters with multiple tags will reduce the population...no question.
 

Addicting

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The right elk hunters with multiple tags will reduce the population...no question.
I do not have the experience there you do, I respect your opinion. I feel like my group is this quote. We have gone 100% for 6 years running on type 6 tags without too much of an issue. Taking 5 elk out of a herd of 120 to 300 isn’t making a dent. To make any meaningful impact you would need 50% of those cows taken to not continue to grow the herd numbers. I don’t see killing that many cows feasible with just hunters.
 

BuzzH

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So elk hunters that have a clue would be a difference maker but what regulations could WGF make to actually help that?
Offer multiple tags to the previous years successful hunters...ain't hard unless you make it so.

The herd my buddy and I shot cows out of, we could have shot at least one more each if we had the tags for it.

For those hunters that can prove they can get access to say, the wagonhound or true's....offer them a couple more tags each.

The problem is, there is absolutely ZERO thinking outside the box going on.
 

BuzzH

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I do not have the experience there you do, I respect your opinion. I feel like my group is this quote. We have gone 100% for 6 years running on type 6 tags without too much of an issue. Taking 5 elk out of a herd of 120 to 300 isn’t making a dent. To make any meaningful impact you would need 50% of those cows taken to not continue to grow the herd numbers. I don’t see killing that many cows feasible with just hunters.
Right, but you aren't the only ones working on those herds...and if you had more tags you might take additional ones.
 

BuzzH

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How do you know the successful people aren't the ones that dumped a pile of rounds into a herd they were terrorizing?
They have the surveys for many years back...if they looked at mine, which I've filled out every year since I've lived here, it probably doesn't take much critical thinking that this guy seems to be running much higher success than the average...as in 100%.

Another thing I would like to see, and would be willing to do on ranches that don't trust the public, is offer to take hunters out there on those places myself. In other words, "guide" them for free and hold their hand killing elk. Making sure they get close, making sure they have a good rest, making sure their rifles are sighted in, helping with retrieval, etc.

I do the same thing now, but just for people I know.
 

Addicting

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Right, but you aren't the only ones working on those herds...and if you had more tags you might take additional ones.
I’m not sure we would. There is only so much one can eat and freeze. Shooting them just to do all the work to donate seem frivolous when as a NR we have such a long drive ahead.

As is I am taking this year off of elk as I need to clean out the freezer of elk. I have 2.5 to still eat thru.
 

BuzzH

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I’m not sure we would. There is only so much one can eat and freeze. Shooting them just to do all the work to donate seem frivolous when as a NR we have such a long drive ahead.

As is I am taking this year off of elk as I need to clean out the freezer of elk. I have 2.5 to still eat thru.
You must not have many friends...I can give elk away in a matter of seconds. I enjoy the work part of it...and in the scheme of life, those days don't count against me.

Also, I recall saying "might"...
 

Addicting

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You must not have many friends...I can give elk away in a matter of seconds. I enjoy the work part of it...and in the scheme of life, those days don't count against me.

Also, I recall saying "might"...
It’s just different for a NR than a R. The amount of time, space, and money invest changes the dynamics. R may help the issue, but I don’t see NR being a key to the solution.
 

BuzzH

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It’s just different for a NR than a R. The amount of time, space, and money invest changes the dynamics. R may help the issue, but I don’t see NR being a key to the solution.
Probably true, but I had 3 NR friends that killed 5 elk last year in about 4 hours...
 

brehm93

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All and the type 6 and 7 tags too. Opening this unit to general bull/cow hunting will make the problem of over objective elk worse...not even up for debate. All it will do is push elk onto sanctuaries even earlier and quicker.

The way to reduce elk numbers is to kill COWS, not bulls. The way to do that is to keep the elk accessible. That means having hunters be smart about getting them killed. One clown can run elk off for days and even weeks if they shoot the joint to pieces. If an area is hunted smartly, just slip into the edge of a herd, kill an elk or 2 with one shot each, not jump around like a cheerleader after you kill one...that herd isn't going far and will be back.

Shoot the place to pieces, sling lead and push them hard, its over maybe for the rest of the season.

I also think it's worth exploring having rest days on some of the HMA's to allow the elk to settle down and move back onto them. Continual day after day pounding on them, they won't come back.

Maybe even staggering seasons a bit more, closing them for 5-7 day stretches to let elk move back onto them.

I've also thought about pairing good elk hunters with landowners that normally don't allow access. Build the trust and once a landowner knows they have a responsible group of guys that know how to get elk killed, it can become an annual thing. 20 guys that know how to get elk killed are going to be more effective than 100 that haven't a clue.

The answers are not always about just issuing more tags, getting more hunters in the field, or even getting more access.

It really boils down to getting elk hunters that know what they're doing access...that's the way you thin elk out, seen it, done it.
I like the idea of closing down the HMA down for days at a time to let them recoup, that's kind of what they do for Mentor Knob but I am not sure if there is data to show if Mentor Knob produces more elk harvest than say Pinto or McFarlane by doing that. It would be interesting to see unless you know that data.

But also, how would you determine who is a good hunter and who isn't? If you leave that determination up to the game and fish it might be a cluster. I mean I think of myself as a pretty good hunter who kills a lot of elk up there but to them I just might be another hunter who wouldn't qualify as a "good hunter". I mean I like the idea of good hunters get more tags but just seems very subjective and another decision left up to those yahoos.
 

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