WY NR elk strategy help

[Pucky Freak]

I have spent about 12 hours online attempting to understand the WY NR elk draw, and while I feel slightly more educated about how it works, I am still extremely confused. I simply cannot wrap my mind around much of the math.

Here is what I want to accomplish, and how I plan to do it. If I need to go about this differently, please help explain how (BuzzH, WapitiBob, anyone...)

Goals for 2020: I want to hunt a general unit with a general tag obtained through the regular draw. If I do not draw this tag in the random draw, I want to hunt with a Type 6 tag that is available in the same unit. I do not want to draw both tags. If I don't draw either, I will do an OTC hunt in another state.

Strategy:
1. Buy a PP this year

2. Apply for the general tag as 1st choice. I see zero purpose in listing anything as a 2nd or 3rd choice, unless there is some way to pull a max points unit tag through the random draw, and I am just not getting how this could possibly work. Apply for a Type 6 tag in the selected unit. Total cost = $1035 on Jan 31st ($707 full price tag, $303 reduced price tag, + $25 convenience fee).

3. June 2020 I find out what I drew. If I draw both tags, I'm screwed because I only wanted one...but I guess there are worse problems to have.

4. Alternate idea: Just apply for the Type 6 license and wait to put in for the General tag after I have enough PPs to get it - basically, save a few convenience fees + floating WYG&F my $707 for four months two years in a row

Thanks all!!

 

[WapitiBob]

Buy the point but, you have 0.0% chance of drawing in the Regular PP draw and maybe 14% in the random side. There is no function to withdraw the type 6 "if you draw" a full price license of the same species. That feature is to withdraw if you "don't draw" the full price counterpart.

 

[Pucky Freak]

you have 0.0% chance of drawing in the Regular PP draw and maybe 14% in the random side.

WYG&F 2018: issued 595 general tags in the regular draw to 4215 first choice applicants (14%).

However, BuzzH noted that an error in the formula will be corrected: "Residents were under-issued about 300 LQ tags. The regulation/statute says that residents will receive 84% of the LQ elk tags. Since the tag splits happened on unknown or unofficial quotas and tags were issued to NR prior to the commission approving the quotas, Residents weren't receiving their 84%...What will happen now, is the commission will approve the quota, then the correct 84-16 split will happen on the actual quotas....Meaning, there is a potential for NR's to draw MORE LQ elk tags. The only 'downside' to that would be less general tags being issued to meet the 7250 NR full price tags. So, that could potentially reduce point creep on LQ tags, but increase it for the general tags."

WYG&F 2018: 3971 general tags were awarded, minus 300 = 3671 for future years. 595/3971 is 15%, and 300*0.15 = 45 fewer general tags in the regular random draw (550). 500/4215 = 11.8% is what I am counting on rather than 14%.

There is no function to withdraw the type 6 "if you draw" a full price license of the same species.

Thank you for the confirmation on this.

One last thing - Am I understanding how 2nd and 3rd choice for the random draw works, in that I should just leave them blank, or is there any advantage in listing something here?

 

[LCH]

I think you've got a pretty good handle on it. I don't know the odds are on the Type 6 tag you want, but my approach has always been roll the dice as many times as possible, and have yet to draw "too many" tags.

For your full priced application, the only second/third choice options I would bother with are Type 4s, if you're willing to pay $707 for a cow tag. A lot of these are 100% draw, so if you select one of these, I would not apply for the Type 6 also.

 

[madtom]

Yep, depending on the unit and what tags are available, a second choice type 4 or 5 would be my recommendation on how to avoid drawing two tags and still retain your points.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

but my approach has always been roll the dice as many times as possible, and have yet to draw "too many" tags.

I put in for 21 tags this year... got my 2nd choice CO resident elk tag... so yep...

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

I think you've got a pretty good handle on it. I don't know the odds are on the Type 6 tag you want, but my approach has always been roll the dice as many times as possible, and have yet to draw "too many" tags.

For your full priced application, the only second/third choice options I would bother with are Type 4s, if you're willing to pay $707 for a cow tag. A lot of these are 100% draw, so if you select one of these, I would not apply for the Type 6 also.

I'll second this as well. I'm looking to do a similar thing as you in 2021. However, from what I can tell, there aren't a whole lot of units which have both a general tag and type 4 tag. So you're odds of hunting cow elk via a type 4 tag in a unit that you'll eventually hunt for bulls on a general tag are a little slim.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Thanks for the input everyone!

 

[CORN]

2. Apply for the general tag as 1st choice. I see zero purpose in listing anything as a 2nd or 3rd choice, unless there is some way to pull a max points unit tag through the random draw, and I am just not getting how this could possibly work. Apply for a Type 6 tag in the selected unit. Total cost = $1035 on Jan 31st ($707 full price tag, $303 reduced price tag, + $25 convenience fee).

3. June 2020 I find out what I drew. If I draw both tags, I'm screwed because I only wanted one...but I guess there are worse problems to have.

4. Alternate idea: Just apply for the Type 6 license and wait to put in for the General tag after I have enough PPs to get it - basically, save a few convenience fees + floating WYG&F my $707 for four months two years in a row

Thanks all!!

ElkFever, I'm planning on doing something similar, but haven't researched Wyoming as thoroughly. How do you end up drawing both tags? Here in CO you'd put in choices 1-3. If your first choice was a male elk and you didn't draw it, they'd look at you for your second choice (the type 6 tag in your scenario). Obviously Wyoming doesn't work the same way? Are there separate draws for the general tag and the type 6 tag?

 

[Gynaroo]

ElkFever, I'm planning on doing something similar, but haven't researched Wyoming as thoroughly. How do you end up drawing both tags? Here in CO you'd put in choices 1-3. If your first choice was a male elk and you didn't draw it, they'd look at you for your second choice (the type 6 tag in your scenario). Obviously Wyoming doesn't work the same way? Are there separate draws for the general tag and the type 6 tag?

The draw happens at the same time. So if you were to put in for general or type 1 you could also put in for a reduced cow/calf (type 6) tag. You could be successful for both. If you wanted Wyoming game and fish will have a left over list that is available after the resident draw (June 20th). Usually the only tags left over are the reduced cow calf tags. You could pick one up through that as well if you didn't through the initial draw.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Wyoming you put in choices 1-3 for what is essentially an "antler" tag (full price tag, Type 0, 1, 2, 3, 9). Included are also some antlerless full price tag options (Type 4 and 5). If your number is drawn in the PP draw you are awarded your first choice option if it is the general tag, but you are only awarded the LQ tag if the quota has not been met for that tag. After that, every other applicant's first choice option is considered before your second choice is considered. The strategy on the second choice is usually to list a Type 4 or Type 5 tag because if drawn, it does not burn your PPs, and all the desirable "antler" tags are all gone by then except for a couple of LQ units that are 100% or near 100% wilderness and not huntable unless you have a guide accompanying you. The downside to drawing a Type 4 or Type 5 for your second choice is you are paying $707 for a cow tag, whereas the Type 6/7 cow tag is only $303. An upside is The Type 4/5 tag might be in the unit you wanted to hunt, so at least you can get some practice until you can draw the "antler" tag in a future year.

Like Gynaroo said, the Type 6/7 draw is completely separate from the PP draw, and the tag allocations are entirely random.

My current plan is to buy a PP this year, put in for for the Type 6/7 draw in 2020 with about a 75% chance to draw the tag I want, buy another PP next year, and put in for the PP draw in 2021 where I'll have about a 70% chance of drawing a general tag. If all works out as hoped, I'll be able to hunt cows in the same unit as I'll be hunting bull elk the following year (or two at most because with 3 PPs the general tag is 100% odds).

If I had unlimited funds I'd just put in for the WY PP special draw with a Type 4/5 as my second choice, as well as the Type 6 draw in 2020, but I won't have $1600 this January with the gear I'm buying + the my 3 already scheduled 2019 hunts.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[CORN]

Wyoming you put in choices 1-3 for what is essentially an "antler" tag (full price tag, Type 0, 1, 2, 3, 9). Included are also some antlerless full price tag options (Type 4 and 5). If your number is drawn in the PP draw you are awarded your first choice option if it is the general tag, but you are only awarded the LQ tag if the quota has not been met for that tag. After that, every other applicant's first choice option is considered before your second choice is considered. The strategy on the second choice is usually to list a Type 4 or Type 5 tag because if drawn, it does not burn your PPs, and all the desirable "antler" tags are all gone by then except for a couple of LQ units that are 100% or near 100% wilderness and not huntable unless you have a guide accompanying you. The downside to drawing a Type 4 or Type 5 for your second choice is you are paying $707 for a cow tag, whereas the Type 6/7 cow tag is only $303. An upside is The Type 4/5 tag might be in the unit you wanted to hunt, so at least you can get some practice until you can draw the "antler" tag in a future year.

Like Gynaroo said, the Type 6/7 draw is completely separate from the PP draw, and the tag allocations are entirely random.

My current plan is to buy a PP this year, put in for for the Type 6/7 draw in 2020 with about a 75% chance to draw the tag I want, buy another PP next year, and put in for the PP draw in 2021 where I'll have about a 70% chance of drawing a general tag. If all works out as hoped, I'll be able to hunt cows in the same unit as I'll be hunting bull elk the following year (or two at most because with 3 PPs the general tag is 100% odds).

If I had unlimited funds I'd just put in for the WY PP special draw with a Type 4/5 as my second choice, as well as the Type 6 draw in 2020, but I won't have $1600 this January with the gear I'm buying + the my 3 already scheduled 2019 hunts.

Decisions, decisions...

Great explanation, thanks for taking the time to type it out!

 

[ccc23454]

I think you may have a better idea how the draw works than G&F does! My NR buddy drew a general thru random and a cow tag both this year expecting to just draw the cow. What that means is now i have to find and pack 2 elk out for him ...yeah....guess its good problem lol

 

[WapitiBob]

Wyoming you put in choices 1-3 for what is essentially an "antler" tag (full price tag, Type 0, 1, 2, 3, 9). Included are also some antlerless full price tag options (Type 4 and 5). If your number is drawn in the PP draw you are awarded your first choice option if it is the general tag, but you are only awarded the LQ tag if the quota has not been met for that tag. After that, every other applicant's first choice option is considered before your second choice is considered.
Decisions, decisions...

NR Gen licenses are limited quota.

 

[Pucky Freak]

NR Gen licenses are limited quota.

Of course. Once the quota for these is met, they don't draw any more numbers, so that eliminates, for example, 100% of the regular draw applications with only 1 PP from getting this tag in the PP draw.

 

[justinch]

Forgive my ignorance, but where can the general tag be used? Any of the areas listed as general in the table in the regs?

 

[jtm307]

Forgive my ignorance, but where can the general tag be used? Any of the areas listed as general in the table in the regs?

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