Would anyone else care to give praise to the .308 ?

338BearHunter

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So, you don't like the 30-06? mtmuley
I wouldn't say I "don't like it", no. I say it is overrated and has been eclipsed by other cartridges.

If I lived out west, I might have more fondness for it, though I suspect the .270 and 6.8 variants would interest me even more. One data point I can note is that at bear camp, .30-'06s are actually quite uncommon. This came as a surprise to me.
 

JLS

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Then why join a discussion about the merits of a specific cartridge?
Because it’s a free country and it’s not against the rules to offer a dissenting opinion.

I find it’s far more worthwhile to find a rifle you like, and fits how you hunt, and then pick about any number of two dozen different chamberings that will all give damned near identical results.
 

338BearHunter

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Because it’s a free country and it’s not against the rules to offer a dissenting opinion.

I find it’s far more worthwhile to find a rifle you like, and fits how you hunt, and then pick about any number of two dozen different chamberings that will all give damned near identical results.
Uh oh, looks like I'm trying to oppress someone.

You didn't offer a dissenting opinion. You offered that the topic itself was worthless. I could find a quilting forum and sign on to say "Quilting is boring. Why are we even having this discussion?"
 

JLS

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Uh oh, looks like I'm trying to oppress someone.

You didn't offer a dissenting opinion. You offered that the topic itself was worthless. I could find a quilting forum and sign on to say "Quilting is boring. Why are we even having this discussion?"
Thank you, forum police.

1652563113033.gif
 

Farmerj

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Talk about demonstrating the superiority of a cartridge by having to derail it for something else.
 

Doublegunner

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The .30-'06 is one of the best black bear cartridges ever devised. It just isn't as good as either the .308 or .338 Federal for the purpose. As I said before, I think its too close to consider owning both a .308 and a .30-'06.

Ten years ago, I saw .30-'06 milsurp everywhere, which I think helped keep it alive. Now, I see very little.
Your comments about the 308 being better than 06 caught my attention. Other than ammo availability how is that so? In all cases the 06 shoots any bullet at a higher velocity. Not a lot I will concede but the disparity increases with an increase in bullet weight. Rifle weight is more a product of rifle choice more than anything. Either can be had in heavy or light rifles. Short or long rifles and so on.. Accuracy for me has also been pretty close to the same. I've found that if you look around you can generally find a round that your rifle likes. Short action vs long action? I can't say one is better than the other. Both seem to work just fine. Recoil is a little lighter with the 308 given the same rifle weight. In your posts you are very adamant that the 308 is better but other than ammo availability you really don't explain why you think that. Objectively the 06 seems to be the superior choice solely based on performance. I genuinely would like to hear your reasoning. Like I said before, I own rifles in both cartridges so I don't really have a strong preference for either. I'm more interested in how you got to your opinion.
 

Shangobango

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I reload but also buy factory ammo.

Personally, I cannot see how ammo and component availability could not be a factor in rifle chambering decisions given the situation with these items over the last year or so.

Maybe I shoot more than some of the folks who say it is a non factor?
 

TN2shot07

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Your comments about the 308 being better than 06 caught my attention. Other than ammo availability how is that so? In all cases the 06 shoots any bullet at a higher velocity. Not a lot I will concede but the disparity increases with an increase in bullet weight. Rifle weight is more a product of rifle choice more than anything. Either can be had in heavy or light rifles. Short or long rifles and so on.. Accuracy for me has also been pretty close to the same. I've found that if you look around you can generally find a round that your rifle likes. Short action vs long action? I can't say one is better than the other. Both seem to work just fine. Recoil is a little lighter with the 308 given the same rifle weight. In your posts you are very adamant that the 308 is better but other than ammo availability you really don't explain why you think that. Objectively the 06 seems to be the superior choice solely based on performance. I genuinely would like to hear your reasoning. Like I said before, I own rifles in both cartridges so I don't really have a strong preference for either. I'm more interested in how you got to your opinion.
I’d also like to know what would lead someone to believe that the 308 is better for specifically black bear? The only real consensus I can see between the whole thread is that the 06 shoots heavy bullets better. Why wouldn’t you want that option if you are after bears?
 

Doublegunner

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I reload but also buy factory ammo.

Personally, I cannot see how ammo and component availability could not be a factor in rifle chambering decisions given the situation with these items over the last year or so.

Maybe I shoot more than some of the folks who say it is a non factor?
My question was more about performance. I agree that ammo availability is a huge factor in deciding.
 

338BearHunter

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I’d also like to know what would lead someone to believe that the 308 is better for specifically black bear? The only real consensus I can see between the whole thread is that the 06 shoots heavy bullets better. Why wouldn’t you want that option if you are after bears?
You're missing out on a few points if the "only consensus" you can see is bullet weight options. The .308 is a short action, thus offering shorter cycling and generally lighter rifles. It also has less recoil. There is also "consensus" on the much better availability of ammo, as well as more new guns, especially semi-automatics chambered in .308.

Its worth noting that the U.S. military moved to 7.62x51 because of these other factors, not bullet performance.
 

TN2shot07

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You're missing out on a few points if the "only consensus" you can see is bullet weight options. The .308 is a short action, thus offering shorter cycling and generally lighter rifles. It also has less recoil. There is also "consensus" on the much better availability of ammo, as well as more new guns, especially semi-automatics chambered in .308.

Its worth noting that the U.S. military moved to 7.62x51 because of these other factors, not bullet performance.
Ammo availability is a given for the 308 but that would not stop me from buying what I want (I’ve always been able to find both fairly easily). This is probably more valid if you were comparing it to something like a weatherby cartridge or 6.5 prc that I haven’t seen in a store here in a year that I can remember. 270, 30-06 & 308 haven’t been hard to come by unless you are very specific with what you want.

I do not buy into the faster cycling for the average shooter. Also in this argument two of the more accurate and affordable options that often come up are Savage and Tikka that run a full length action for everything anyway. Lighter rifles are nice to carry but a toss up on how well people shoot them. Both can be had in plenty of “hunting weight” rifles.

When you say something is a better option for a specific animal my concern is how the rifle and bullet perform on the animal. I can zero a scope and hunt with less than a box of ammo.
 

Don Fischer

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I wouldn't say I "don't like it", no. I say it is overrated and has been eclipsed by other cartridges.

If I lived out west, I might have more fondness for it, though I suspect the .270 and 6.8 variants would interest me even more. One data point I can note is that at bear camp, .30-'06s are actually quite uncommon. This came as a surprise to me.
30-06 over rated? Not a huge 30-06 fan but if anything I'd say it's under rated.
 

ImBillT

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Parent cartridge of some other great calibers. 243 is not a slouch. 260, 7-08, 358. This 308 rocks, hell, its the reason they invented AR10's and their damn fun to shoot. I have to admit I have not harvested any animals with one yet but the key word is yet. It will be around a long time.
You left out the .338Federal.
 

ImBillT

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While I can’t say anything bad about the .308Win, and actually own more of them than any other cartridge, my feeling is that if a class in a competition does not require a 308Win, or give it some sort of advantage, then I cannot figure out why one would not simply step up to a 30-06, or a 30cal magnum.
 

buffybr

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I've been lurking on this thread since it started less than a month ago and now it's grown to 7 pages. That's a lot of interest.

My first centerfire rifle was a .30-06 that I bought in 1967. It is a Herter's Model U-9 action that is 6 1/2" long. For 10 years I used that rifle for everything from prairie dogs to elk.

The first .308 (7.62) that I shot was the M-14 that the US Army issued me in Basic Training in 1968. I remember a Range Sgt telling us recruits that the 7.62 could do anything that the .30-06 could. At that time I was smart enough not to call BS on that Sgt. Many of the praises or arguements in this thread for the .308 are the same BS that that Range Sgt was giving us out in that New Mexico desert back in 1968.

I bought my first .308 Win in the early '70s for my first wife. I loaded 150 grain bullets for it for deer and antelope, and 165 grain bullets for elk. That rifle and those 150 grain bullets worked great for her on deer and antelope, but unfortunately she never shot an elk with it and that rifle went with her in the divorce.

It wasn't until 2016 that I bought another .308 rifle. That rifle is on a Mauser action and shot great but the 3-position safety can't be put on because it is blocked by the scope. That rifle is also a long action that is 6" long and the rifle with scope weighs 9 1/2 pounds. It's been sitting in the back of my safe since 2017.

In 2017 I bought a Weatherby Vanguard in .308 Win mainly for shooting the steel gongs at our range, but a couple of years ago I did take it to Kodiak Island on a Sitka Blacktail deer hunt. This rifle is a short action that is 5 7/8" long and weighs 9 pounds with it's scope.

I also have another Vanguard that is chambered for .223 Rem. It is also a short 5 7/8" action and also weighs 9 pounds with it's scope.

To contrast these rifles I also have a Rem 700 chambered in 7 mm RM. It's action is 6 1/8" long and weighs 8 3/4 pounds with it's scope.

All of these rifles are in their factory plastic stocks that I have glass bedded the barrels and actions and I lengthened the stocks 1/2" on the Vanguards and Rem 700, and all of these rifles have 24" barrels.

So with that background, here are my thoughts and opinions on what has been posted on this thread about the .308 Win as a hunting rifle...

First is that the .308 Win is ballistically the same or is even better that the .30-06. Pure BS! Both cartridges use the same bullets, so just with the principles of physics, the cartridge that burns more powder will yield higher velocities. The .30-06 can do anything that the .308 Win can do only the .30-06 bullet will have a higher velocity and higher energy.

Next is that the .308 Win is on a short action that will result in a shorter and lighter weight rifle. With my rifles, the short action Vanguards are only 1/4" shorter than my long action Rem 7 mm RM and the scoped rifles are 1/4 pound heavier than the 7 mm RM.
IMO stocks and scopes affect the rifle's weight more than 1/4-1/2" of action length.

Next is that the .308 Win will recoil less than a .30-06. This is true if you are shooting maximum loads with the same bullets and in the same weight and fit rifles. An ill fitting, lightweight .308 Win can kick the s___ out of the shooter whereas a heavier and proper fitting .30-06 can be a pleasure to shoot. My favorite elk rifle now is my .300 Weatherby. I put it in a custom Walnut stock that fits me, weighs 3/4 pounds more than my .308 Win, I load it with heavier bullets and 53-58 % heavier powder charges, and I have a KDF Muzzle Brake on it. As a result, my .300 Weatherby is LOUD, but it's felt recoil is about the same as the felt recoil of my .308 Win.

Then there is the point that .308 Win ammunition is readily available. I think that this is basically true, especially in comparison with many of the newest and latest cartridges that have come out recently. However this does not affect me, as I reload all of my rifle, pistol and shotshell cartridges. Many of my rifles have never fired a factory round.

And finally, I like the .308 Win cartridge. I shoot my .308 Vanguard just about every week, and now shoot it more than any other rifle that I have. If it was the only rifle that I had, I wouldn't hesitate to hunt any of Montana's big game animals with it. However, I like to have a variety of rifles and I am at a point in my life where I can afford a rifle in any cartridge that I want, so come hunting seasons, many of my rifles, including my .308s, spend more safe time than they do field time.
 

grizzly63

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Don't worry, I've already contacted the hit squad. :)
Guy cant know everything! I have looked at the 338 Federal for a new upper build for that AR10. Realistically, when I get really serious about a hunt, I grab the 300WM. Why screw around ? One of the strong points I have heard of the 308 is that it is so accurate. It does drop like a rock on a consistent path. Probably why I keep reaching for the Magnum. You can always load it down to 308 ballistics. I do like the 30-06 as well but the one I own kicks pretty good.
 

Don Fischer

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As much as I like the 308 I can probably come up with a number of different cartridges that would fit in the same group. Any cartridge is no better than the person using it. Maybe it might make more sense to suggest cartridges that are over rated?
 

FLS

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The 308 is adequate for 99% of shots actually taken on NA game. I believe most shots beyond its effective range are generally by choice rather than necessity.
 
Yeti

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