WLH charged. Heads up if you've booked

Gerald Martin

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That is an overly broad statement, I insisted on being there for location of the track and release of the hounds for a lion hunt. The actual hunt is the search for the track to follow after all. The golden rule applies he who provides the gold makes the rules.

While running after the sounds of the chase I had to stop for a wheeze in oak brush... a couple young assistants followed up and stopped for a wheeze a few yards away.

"usually we have to wait until dark until the dude shows up to kill the poor cat, problem with this SOB is trying to keep up with him..."

One can live by ones own rules if one insists it be so.

Chase started on a doe deer carcass, covered up kitty style. I excavated it to make sure there were no tire marks on it, never hurts to verify. Trust but verify...

This should NOT be viewed as a defense of this outfitter, just a general re-buttal of your overly broad assertion.

Ah, but comparing a lion hunt to how bear hunts generally start isn’t going to give a true perspective. Apples and bananas.

Obviously, my portrayal is broad brush.

They might have found a track crossing a road and then turned the dogs out. More likely they drove roads until a strike dog caught scent and barked.

Regardless of how the chase started, I can envision all kinds of scenarios where a client who wasn’t told about a bait pile would be completely clueless that there was one involved.

I don’t even like Don Jr. I just think that unless the DNR can come up with specific evidence that proves he had specific first hand knowledge of the bait, it’s going to be impossible to prove he participated in the illegal part of the hunt. IMO, without conclusive evidence linking Don Jr as an participant, claims that he did participate are pure speculation.
 
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Letthemgrow

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I would not bet against you. It would surprise me if he actually does any time. It would not surprise me to learn he complains that he is being harassed unfairly.
Considering what he got away with with the ram debacle I wouldn't bet he is going get into any kind of serious trouble with this one.
 

squirrel

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Hound experiences may vary and the one you described may be the exception. Apples and oranges- bears and lions, I don't know.
How exactly did you all come across the doe carcass? Were you on foot or lucky enough to find a lion kill on the road?
Anyhow.
My experience hunting bear with hounds in the West is very similar to the thread you rebutted. Lots of driving with a strike hound on the hood, cutting tracks and looking for a strike from scent.
I have never seen or heard of guys initially taking off when the dogs are first sent.
It usually happens the dog strikes or sign is seen. Every now and then you run into a bear, actually sighted. The houndsman decides how many and which dogs to send. Then you wait, listen and use technology like GPS or telemetry. You monitor the dogs for a tree, good chase, or false strike. If the dogs tree, then you go. If it looks like a good chase, you decide if you pursue from there or drive to a better starting point. A bad chase, you regroup and gather dogs. A simplistic example but it's not that complicated.
Trying to chase bear the way in which you described in the lion hunt sounds cool, but is not reality in my experience for bears in the west.
Vehicle, struck track, followed till freshened at doe carcass. It would appear that Zane Grey's "Young Lion Hunter" is a bit dated... pity that.
 

hossblur

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Wade has 2 trespassing charges against him right now in his home county.

1st, Specifically told by landowner to stay out, he jumped the fence, killed on the other side, and crossed back.

The pissed landowner made it known it wasn't the first time Wade had done that, that he had video of Wade crossing right next to a No Trespassing sign. So, a second charge was added.

So, this is his 3rd charge this year. And it's just May
 

S-3 Ranch

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Charged in the 1990’s
 

OntarioHunter

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Good gawd! With that track record (rap sheet) and he's still allowed to be guiding? Only in Utah. Can someone find out how much he contributes to Republican campaign funds? I think that will tell the tale ... especially in Utah.
 

406dn

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Good gawd! With that track record (rap sheet) and he's still allowed to be guiding? Only in Utah. Can someone find out how much he contributes to Republican campaign funds? I think that will tell the tale ... especially in Utah.

Not everything is partisan. Really, the GOP needs his contributions to win in Utah?

It is evident that this guy is a POS. It's more likely that, like most states, Utah gives game violations a partial pass for serious infractions.
 

JLS

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In Utah, is outfitter and guide licensing regulated by a board? Or does DNR issue and regulate the licenses?

Edit: looks like it is handled by the Dept of Occupational and Professional Licensing. Violations are grounds for denial of license/suspension/non-renewal. If he isn’t suspended after this year, it might be worth a letter to the department head asking why he wasn’t?

 

Trophy Cow

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Maybe he can cry to the commission if they try and suspend his license about needing to hunt to support his family. It’s worked for influencers in the past

How is MuleyFreak doing these days? Still wounding animals i'm sure but is he doing it on private property without permission still?
 

OntarioHunter

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Not everything is partisan. Really, the GOP needs his contributions to win in Utah?

I think it's more likely Lemon needs the GOP to make his problems go away. Pay to play. And who else would he pay in Utah?
 

hossblur

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Not everything is partisan. Really, the GOP needs his contributions to win in Utah?

It is evident that this guy is a POS. It's more likely that, like most states, Utah gives game violations a partial pass for serious infractions.
He has a pretty well connected "friend", who coincidentally runs a republican PAC. Same fella created SFW, BGF, and Hunter Nation, which is how Jr came into this mess
 

hossblur

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In Utah, is outfitter and guide licensing regulated by a board? Or does DNR issue and regulate the licenses?

Edit: looks like it is handled by the Dept of Occupational and Professional Licensing. Violations are grounds for denial of license/suspension/non-renewal. If he isn’t suspended after this year, it might be worth a letter to the department head asking why he wasn’t?

Same board handles all licensing. DOPL.

Folks would be shocked to see how many contractors someone's mom, mother in law, cousin, etc because namesake had a license pulled.

Word was his boy and some guides were getting licensed up this winter, almost like something was upcoming
 

Bambistew

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In Utah, is outfitter and guide licensing regulated by a board? Or does DNR issue and regulate the licenses?

Edit: looks like it is handled by the Dept of Occupational and Professional Licensing. Violations are grounds for denial of license/suspension/non-renewal. If he isn’t suspended after this year, it might be worth a letter to the department head asking why he wasn’t?

Unless he's convicted, I would imagine losing his license over charges would result in him suing the licensing department. That's how it works up here, but only for Big Game guides for some reason. First time offence they are put on probation, minor charge could be suspended, major, revoked.

As I mentioned previously Shankser had a dozen criminal charges against him, they drug out the court case for 4 years, and he operated like it never happened during that time, and finally sold his outfit, and the buyer was using his license to sell hunts. It was a total cluster. This case is hardly a for-sure win. They will have a hard time proving that he did any of it. Did he place it there personally? Good luck proving that, even with the minions that said they told them to do it... he said - he said. Shankster was in for wonton waste of 4 moose, killing a sub-legal sheep (and not reporting it), and I can't remember the rest. He could have lost his plane, all his gear and anything related to the infractions. (he didn't lose shit) Numerous letters where sent to the board to revoke his license, they said they couldn't just take away someone's livelihood without a conviction.

I still stand by my observation, he'll get off.
 
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406dn

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I think it's more likely Lemon needs the GOP to make his problems go away. Pay to play. And who else would he pay in Utah?

Generally, in pay to play there is something in it for both sides. I don't see much he can offer.

That said, it doesn't shock me he is hanging with the Ted Nugentish wing of the GOP.

He does give a black eye to other hunters, generally. It is unfortunate that there is so little accountability.
 

LuketheDog

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As I mentioned previously Shankser had a dozen criminal charges against him, they drug out the court case for 4 years, and he operated like it never happened during that time, and finally sold his outfit, and the buyer was using his license to sell hunts. It was a total cluster. This case is hardly a for-sure win. They will have a hard time proving that he did any of it. Did he place it there personally? Good luck proving that, even with the minions that said they told them to do it... he said - he said. Shankster was in for wonton waste of 4 moose, killing a sub-legal sheep (and not reporting it), and I can't remember the rest. He could have lost his plane, all his gear and anything related to the infractions. (he didn't lose shit) Numerous letters where sent to the board to revoke his license, they said they couldn't just take away someone's livelihood without a conviction.

He also had that great log cabin building show! A fine piece of TV that one was...:rolleyes:
 

JLS

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Unless he's convicted, I would imagine losing his license over charges would result in him suing the licensing department. That's how it works up here, but only for Big Game guides for some reason. First time offence they are put on probation, minor charge could be suspended, major, revoked.

I still stand by my observation, he'll get off and continue selling wildlife to the highest bidders.
Right, charges aren’t grounds for suspension. Convictions SHOULD be.
 

Ben Long

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The report is a glimpse behind the curtain to the seamy underbelly of big game hunting.

I suspect Trump Jr. is fully convinced in his mind that he hunts ethically and employs successful outfitters.

Any hunter paying attention has seen shenanigans from outfitters. More than once I have witnessed the herding of elk by airplane or horses, either to move elk to where they want them, or keep them from leaving an area. It has been going on for a long time. It will go on for a long time.

Hunting does not improve a person's ethics as much as it reveals them.
"Hunting does not improve a person's ethics as much as it reveals them."

Good line right there.
 

Gerald Martin

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"Hunting does not improve a person's ethics as much as it reveals them."

Good line right there.
My dad once told me, “ If you want to know a man’s character, watch how he hunts and fishes.” This was in the context of abiding by the regulations governing the take of game.
 

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