SMk's, JLK's, Berger's and VLD style bullets for hunting.

daveosok

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The ensuing discussion on ethics of using SMK’s, JLK’s, Berger’s, or any other bullet of the VLD design or designed for extreme range “shooting” is not intended to be an opinionated view more of a factual evidential based conversation.

I have heard and personally hunt with VLD style bullets (Berger’s) and have killed game humanely at extended ranges and so have many of the folks I talk to and hunt with have done.

There are other boards on the web where people have taken game out to and beyond 2100 yards, primarily large game animals like Elk, and Mulie’s.

Other than the description by the manufacture of intended use what factual evidence can you support the view of not using such bullets to take game? This evidence being either witnessed or personally obtained with the use of SMK’s, JLK’s Berger’s or any other bullet of similar design to take game at extreme ranges.
 

Ridge Runner

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2100 yds??
What about the longer the distance the more room for error in example wind,ftlbs of energy/ Just a few. But I am not one to take a shot like that so really don't know much about those types of bullets. I would try to close the gap to where I felt good about taking the shot with the prevailing conditions playing a big part. Just my opinion


Happy trails
 

Calif. Hunter

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Just me, but I respect the game and use bullets designed for game. I don't experiment with living things. If the builder says it's not designed for something, that's good enough for me. Full metal jackets will kill, too. Punch a hole in something vital and the animal will die. Maybe tomorrow or the next day, though.
 

danr55

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Dave, the only physical exception I can take to the use of TARGET bullets for hunting it that generally, by design, they are more frangible and less well constucted than hunting bullets. Frangible bullets have a greater tendency to come apart on contact and leave a large gaping, not immediately fatal wound in an animal. I would presume that to be especially true with animals taken at extreme distances.

I have no objection to taking game at extended ranges if a hunter is capable, hell I do it myself. If you feel that you are good enough with your rifle and you believe that the bullet you are shooting is appropriate for the game, then push that trigger. I have on the other hand, heard peope complaining that Nosler Ballistic tips are not competant for game bullets because they are so frangible. So it's a matter of personal ethics. I would not hunt with anything other than a Nosler Partition. I find that they are plenty accurate at the ranges I shoot.

I guess I would turn the question back and ask why you believe it necessary to hunt with target bullets? Not trying to be argumentative, just participating in the debate.

 

daveosok

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Dan
Good to hear from you again.

I guess the question arose because I shoot mostly target and didnt want to switch over to hunting style bullets and do a whole nother load work up for each rifle.
So I thought I'd ask you guys your facts in situations where youve taken game using these style bullets and if they have worked.

Over this past weekend I shot a doe t 270 yards in the head with my 300 WSM and that was with Berger 168 grain. I examined her and the entrance and exit wound was quite acceptable and actually you couldnt of noticed the difference between the Berger's and any other style bullet.
I figured the small distance the bullet went through mostly bone would have done a job on any style bullet.
It did perform well and she died on contact.
now my girlfriend shot a deer ohhh 3 weeks ago with my 7mm STW with 180 grain Bergers and it went down and died on the spot too, course I think if you do hunt with these style of bullets more is needed on your part for correct bullet placement.
In my hunting club alone I know of 6 deer that have been lost, all with factory ammo consequently the shooters need to pratice more with their rifles and get range finders because I know the bullet styles they were shooting werent failing it was just a poor shot.
I am not arguing either just seeing if anyone has hunted with these style bullets and have had either success or failiers.
Thanks again for providing your answers.
Dave
 

daveosok

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Update
Two deer were taken with a 300 Tomahawk, slightly blow out case and shoulder angle changed.
Load; 100 grains of H1000
190 Berger's
3300 FPS
Lilja 34 in bull barrel, Rem action.
One was taken at 547 yards, one shot lung shot ran 20 yards, entrance wound was normal size exit was lemon sized, second deer was taken at 619 yards normal entrance wound orange sized exit wound died on the spot.
I was impressed to say the least. I built the gun so it was one of them "pat yourself on the back days".
The first deer down when cleaned the bullet upon entering hit a rib, it did not deviate from its path and exited without obstruction.
Second deer missed both sides of ribs. We never recoved the bullets.
I do believe these bullets will work, however poor shots will probably net you the same results as with any bullet.
 

Ol Bull Shooter

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Ya i use a target bullet. It's a controled expansion North Fork. My 9.3 Dakota will shoot the 250 NF @3050fps into .244" groups. If you havn't tryed them you should. I know they don't have the b.c. that the MK's or Bergers do but they are very accurate! And ain't that what it's about, hitting what you are shooting at.
 

daveosok

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Thanks for lettin me know about North Fork never heard of them but am always willing to try new bullets out. I tried some of those Lost River bullets, dont waste your money on them I loaded up 40 and not one group was good. Tried 8 different powders and no results worth going after.
 

daveosok

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middle ga
Update
Another deer was taken ar 425 yards with the Berger 190 vld.
In our club this year 5 deer were lost, this was due to poor shot placement.
I have come to the conclusion that either bullet will work the key is and always has been shot placement its just a coincidence that none were lost with with the bullets in question on the start of this thread.
It is interesting however to see that the vld style bullets did perform well and the deer taken at longer ranges died within 25 yards of where they had been shot or directly where they had been standing.
I think that if you are to use such bullets when hunting you need to know your rifle intimately and have all information handy as well as the equipment needed to perform such long range shots.
Pratice is the key here and with it shots can be taken to kill the animal humainly.
 
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