sighting back in question

nastynate

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Mar 7, 2021
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Why does your 165 grain hit higher than your 125? Seems like it’d be the other way around.

I don't know, but it certainly does. I sighted in with my 165s before I came across the on sale boxes of 125s (again, this is a few years ago). Another brand shoots a bit left of where I'm sighted in. I never gave that too much thought. Just assumed they all come out the barrel and fly a bit differently.
 

Mustangs Rule

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Feb 4, 2021
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The answer to your seemingly reason question is probably "no", for a sneaky reason.

The bullets in your ammo seems to either be Barnes or another very similar monolithic all copper bullet.

For both accuracy and consistency these bullets need to have the barrel "guilded" by firing the exact same bullet for the first few shots before fiinal sighting in. Having the coating in the barrel match the all copper bullet being fired can be critcal.

Barnes recomends not over cleaning a barrel for this exact reason.

Years ago I sold a tack driver model 70 in 270 to a young hunter I knew quite well. We had hunted togther a few times and I thought well of him. When I sold him the rifle I gave him specific instructions to follow Barnes, and not over clean it. he cleaned it down to bare metal and it shot poorly.

Then as the light barrel heated up it shot even worse.

Then he began mixing copper jacketed lead core rounds, then firing the monlithic copper bullets and the groups really went crazy.

I met him at the range, we cleaned everything out. Fired two Barnes bullets, Let it cool and fired three for a sighting group. They were way under and inch at 100 yards.

The lesson is, do not mix bullets as the guilding can be critical with mono copper bullets. It can take you down a road that can drive you nuts and waste lots of ammo,,,and this maddness can be rifle dependent.

With my Sako Finnlight with a genuine high quality match grade barrel, it shoots so well with less concern about guiding and just never fouls either. Same with my Beligium made Browning Safari grade 30-06.

With lesser quality riflles it can become a wlld ride. And Tikka's by the way are not anywhere near the quality of a Sako. They can group well, but seem to foul easier, get less velocity for the same powder as a tighter Sako and are more sensitive to guilding.

I usdersrand what you want to do, but doing that from my experience would require cleaning the barrel after shooting lead core, then firing two of your copper bullets, letting it cool then firing for your final group
 

Nhenry

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Dec 19, 2020
Messages
580
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Kansas
The answer to your seemingly reason question is probably "no", for a sneaky reason.

The bullets in your ammo seems to either be Barnes or another very similar monolithic all copper bullet.

For both accuracy and consistency these bullets need to have the barrel "guilded" by firing the exact same bullet for the first few shots before fiinal sighting in. Having the coating in the barrel match the all copper bullet being fired can be critcal.

Barnes recomends not over cleaning a barrel for this exact reason.

Years ago I sold a tack driver model 70 in 270 to a young hunter I knew quite well. We had hunted togther a few times and I thought well of him. When I sold him the rifle I gave him specific instructions to follow Barnes, and not over clean it. he cleaned it down to bare metal and it shot poorly.

Then as the light barrel heated up it shot even worse.

Then he began mixing copper jacketed lead core rounds, then firing the monlithic copper bullets and the groups really went crazy.

I met him at the range, we cleaned everything out. Fired two Barnes bullets, Let it cool and fired three for a sighting group. They were way under and inch at 100 yards.

The lesson is, do not mix bullets as the guilding can be critical with mono copper bullets. It can take you down a road that can drive you nuts and waste lots of ammo,,,and this maddness can be rifle dependent.

With my Sako Finnlight with a genuine high quality match grade barrel, it shoots so well with less concern about guiding and just never fouls either. Same with my Beligium made Browning Safari grade 30-06.

With lesser quality riflles it can become a wlld ride. And Tikka's by the way are not anywhere near the quality of a Sako. They can group well, but seem to foul easier, get less velocity for the same powder as a tighter Sako and are more sensitive to guilding.

I usdersrand what you want to do, but doing that from my experience would require cleaning the barrel after shooting lead core, then firing two of your copper bullets, letting it cool then firing for your final group
Sakos and Tikkas use the exact same barrel from the exact same facility from the exact same machine. I've owned both and I can tell you that they're the same. It saves money for Sako (which Tikka resides under) to just use the same hammer forge and metal blanks for everything.

A bare bones Chevy Tahoe is the exact same thing as a bare bones Cadillac Escalade. It's all about fit an finish. I won't argue that the Sako isn't overall a better rifle, but the fact is that the barrels are identical.
 

buffybr

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Oct 3, 2009
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BozAngeles, MT
I sure will be buying more when I find it.

How many rounds, precisely, do I need to have on hand in order to be doing the responsible thing? 26?
Add a 0 to that number 26 = 260! Just kidding. ;)

Since I only shoot my reloaded bullets in all of my guns, I buy my bullets in minimum lots of 100-200.

On all of my international hunts I always take two boxes (40) cartridges, just in case...

Also, unless I'm only going out for a day hunt, I'll also take two boxes of cartridges and just leave one in my truck.
 

Dakotakid

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Dec 13, 2014
Messages
504
I use bigger paper, like last years wall calendars or Xmas paper that has the lines on it.

I also will shoot cheaper ammo to dial in. Then switch to reloads for final work up.
 

Don Fischer

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Jun 27, 2017
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This is just something I'm curious about... I have about 20 rounds of my hunting ammo and 70 rounds of target ammo. The hunting ammo is sighted in at about 2" high at 100 yards, and the target ammo hits about 1" high at 100 yards. If I ever really knocked my scope off on a hunt, could I use the target ammo to sight back in to 1" high and expect to be good to go with my hunting ammo? I cannot think of any reason why that would not work just fine, but maybe there's something I'm not thinking about. This past fall, I brought all my hunting ammo and one box of target ammo on my hunt, and my plan was to use that target ammo to get dialed back in if I smashed my rifle at some point (thankfully that didn't happen). This question comes from a place of ammo conservation and scarcity, of course. Normally I'd just bring two boxes of hunting ammo on a hunt (if I'm not backpacking). I haven't seen my hunting ammo available for a while, and I usually shoot 0-2 animals a year with my rifle, so I'm hoping my remaining box of 20 will tide me over until the shelves aren't bare.

For what it's worth, I hunt with 30-06 165gr Federal Trophy Copper, and my target ammo (which just happened to be some ammo I picked up on sale once upon a time) is 125gr core-lokt.
You shoot two animals a year! If you take one shot at each animal one box will last you 10yrs! Take two and you still have 5 yrs worth of ammo. I don't get taking along target ammo to re-sight in if you scope gets out of whack! I did have that happen one time, rifle in a gun rack fell out of the rack and landed on the scope! Target ammo would not have helped as the cross wire's broke! If you need a third box of ammo, I'd take a third box of the ammo I'm using to hunt with!
 

ImBillT

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Oct 29, 2018
Messages
2,976
I’m not convinced that 125gr core-lokt in a 30-06 is accurate enough to check your sight-in. I would suggest that you always sight-in using the ammo you intend to hunt with, but if for some reason you don’t, won’t, or can’t, then I would try to use something more accurate than my hunting ammo so that I knew for sure nothing had changed.
 

Mustangs Rule

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Feb 4, 2021
Messages
488
Sakos and Tikkas use the exact same barrel from the exact same facility from the exact same machine. I've owned both and I can tell you that they're the same. It saves money for Sako (which Tikka resides under) to just use the same hammer forge and metal blanks for everything.

A bare bones Chevy Tahoe is the exact same thing as a bare bones Cadillac Escalade. It's all about fit an finish. I won't argue that the Sako isn't overall a better rifle, but the fact is that the barrels are identical.
Some years ago a gun/shooting writer whose opinion I valued made this statement.

"Just the barrel on a Sako is worth as much as an entire Tikka rifle"

All you say above is true, the next issue that arises is the extra production attention given to milling barrels that are going on a much more expensive rifle.

The old axiom of you aways get what you pay for always holds true,,,as it does here with a truly match grade rifle barrel.

A close friend and hunting/shooting partner bought a Tikka in .308 wuth a 22 inch barrel.
I had a Sako Finnlight in .308 with a 20 inch barrel.

Both had the same 1 in 11 twist. We used the the same reload for both rifles.

Both shot very well ar a 100 yards. I recall three shot groups of 5/8" each.

The diferences began to show first in velocity. The Sako with a barrel 2 inches shorter than the Tikka had a 100'/second greater velocity. We chrongraph this mutiple times. This would suggest that both the chamber and bore were tighter.

Next, as the barresl heated up from repreated shots the groups stayed much tighter with the Sako.

Also, the Sako barrel being smoother copper fouled much less with Barnes bullets and held better groups after more shots.
 

Nhenry

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Messages
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Some years ago a gun/shooting writer whose opinion I valued made this statement.

"Just the barrel on a Sako is worth as much as an entire Tikka rifle"

All you say above is true, the next issue that arises is the extra production attention given to milling barrels that are going on a much more expensive rifle.

The old axiom of you aways get what you pay for always holds true,,,as it does here with a truly match grade rifle barrel.

A close friend and hunting/shooting partner bought a Tikka in .308 wuth a 22 inch barrel.
I had a Sako Finnlight in .308 with a 20 inch barrel.

Both had the same 1 in 11 twist. We used the the same reload for both rifles.

Both shot very well ar a 100 yards. I recall three shot groups of 5/8" each.

The diferences began to show first in velocity. The Sako with a barrel 2 inches shorter than the Tikka had a 100'/second greater velocity. We chrongraph this mutiple times. This would suggest that both the chamber and bore were tighter.

Next, as the barresl heated up from repreated shots the groups stayed much tighter with the Sako.

Also, the Sako barrel being smoother copper fouled much less with Barnes bullets and held better groups after more shots.
I’m just gonna say that the barrels are cold hammer forged on the same machine with the same mandrels and no two barrels will produce the exact same results, even if they’re cut from the same stock.

Trust me, I know Sakos are better rifles. They just feel better. But the barrels are the exact same.

Edit: plus, you could have had a barrel made from a fresh mandrel and your buddy could have had a barrel from the last breaths of an old mandrel.

My Sako 85 Bavarian actually heated up and spread worse than my stock tikka ever did.

Old Sakos used different barrels, for sure. But nowadays it’s just most beneficial cost-wise to use the same process and material for everything, which is what Sako does.

I know they’ve confirmed that at some point, but I can’t find the article. I’ll post it when I find it. Til then, good day to you
 
Last edited:

Mustangs Rule

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Messages
488
I’m just gonna say that the barrels are cold hammer forged on the same machine with the same mandrels and no two barrels will produce the exact same results, even if they’re cut from the same stock.

Trust me, I know Sakos are better rifles. They just feel better. But the barrels are the exact same.

Edit: plus, you could have had a barrel made from a fresh mandrel and your buddy could have had a barrel from the last breaths of an old mandrel.

My Sako 85 Bavarian actually heated up and spread worse than my stock tikka ever did.
My understanding is this. There is an ideal window of use in the life of a mandrel. The first and last periods of use are less than ideal,,,rougher at first, smooth and consistent during the middle period and sloppy at the last.

I have been told that match grade barrels are intentionally milled during this ideal period.

I don't know any more myself, but I have posed that question to somebody who should know. Lets see if i get an answer. I will post it here if I do.

Regarding Sako's in general, I have had three. A 338 Forester in 338 Win mag, a Vixen in .222 ( both sold ) and now the Finnight in 308.

I have had vintage optiloc rings on all. I have that peep sight that fits in the dovetails in the receiver, that was so innovative, they have all shot very very well. The Tikka is a fine rifle. no denying that.

The Sako's have all been fine and classy rifles.

Redarding your Bavarian,,,I love wood stocks but they can be an accuarcy problem,,,,and lastly, the velocity increase of my much shorter barreled Sako over the Tikka was pretty impressive.

Thanks for your input. Lets see what if any ansers I get.
 

grizzly63

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Oct 10, 2020
Messages
342
Since I have started reloading, I have come to realize the simple facts of lot to lot inconsistency. If you only shoot factory shells, make sure you buy enough of the same lot to hopefully avoid differences in production. I would not bet that a box of ammo bought six months later would shoot exactly the same as earlier ammo. Therefore, it would be wise to at least shoot a verifying round from the new batch to keep your confidence. JMO
 
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