MT ELK, Changing it up?

Kiwi

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New Zealand
First, our property is far from wide open, and if someone bugs me about hunting their chances decrease the more they bug. That being said we had hunters just about every day from the first of Sept to the end of Nov. and somewhat north of 200 hunter days.
I am not interested in BM and it is likely I never will be.
I take your question as, What can we do to may landowners like me more interested in BM

Better law enforcement. Game wardens are underpaid and spread too thin in Montana. Last year the game warden near me moved on last spring and he still has not been replaced. Hard for FWP to convince landowners that they will take care of the slobs, trespassers and out right poachers when law enforcement is so lacking. On the other had the outfitter promises to handle all the unethical people and they are on your property almost every day.

Better management on public land. I take one look at what has happened to the deer herd and the damage to the roads on the Custer and say there is no way in hell that is happening on my place. I firmly believe that if hunters want better access to private land they are going to have to give up some opportunity.
I have had several outfitters solicit me for a lease, besides the the promise of better management is a selling point. If they are trying to sign me up with the promise of better management it has likely been a winner with other landowners.
Well I for one wouldn't bug you for access (even though I plan to hunt SW MT in Nov 22), but i can take you hunting in New Zealand if you want :)
 

SAJ-99

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In fact, I am pretty sure that I could broker access for six folks on a ranch big enough for everyone to shoot bulls if there were five NR’s willing to pay as much as they would an outfitter. Of course I’d get to hunt too and instead of payment my portion would be distributed among the other five guys.

$7500 per person should get us a decent lease.


This is the way it’s going to go down, if this passes.
There is a large group of hunters (majority or minority) that are silent on this topic and think they are fine because they already do what you described. They better have a damn good relationship with the landowner or inflation is going to be serious problem.
 

Ben Lamb

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I’m thinking that if the FWP proposal is intended to be an extreme “shoot for the moon” bargaining chip to end up with transferable landowner tags as the end result, a Citizen’s Initiative may be the most durable defense to solidly establish that Montana residents don’t want our wildlife to become the property of large landowners to be distributed to the wealthy.

Probably part of it, certainly it's payback to the crowd that got GiGi elected, and the pent up frustration from the folks in positions of power now after 16 years of being out of it.

It's grab what you can, while you can. I think you can bet that it'll get pared down and it will be called a compromise when the pre-determined raping gets pushed through and this one doesn't.

But who knows. It's a wild time in the treasure state.
 

sacountry

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Probably part of it, certainly it's payback to the crowd that got GiGi elected, and the pent up frustration from the folks in positions of power now after 16 years of being out of it.

It's grab what you can, while you can. I think you can bet that it'll get pared down and it will be called a compromise when the pre-determined raping gets pushed through and this one doesn't.

But who knows. It's a wild time in the treasure state.
If any of you guys gets a wild hair to become governor, I'd like a region 1 appointment to FWP please.
 

sacountry

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By the time this administration is through, wild hares will about the only thing alive for FWP to manage.
GG could have been a solid 8 year term guy with a chance at a higher office if he wanted it. At this point, he's got less than a 50/50 chance of winning a second term. Gonna take a lib with a solid track record of wildlife mgmt....Dan Vermilion comes to mind. He may be a little too left to win in Montana, but the way GG is going he could make Dan look attractive to the middle. Wish there was a moderate liberal out there with excellent wildlife rapport that could unseat GG.

Sorry getting off topic. I plan on breaking away from the office to hit up the Kalispell FWP office on Tuesday. Kinda wanted to road trip to Helena, but I have commitments that night.
 

antlerradar

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Very insightful Thanks for sharing. One more question, in your opinion, is there an elk overpopulation issue in your district? I know that's a subjective question, but I question whether this is a real problem or a smoke screen for someone's personal agenda.
I am no biologist so that this from a landowners perspective.
The first elk I saw in SE MT was in the early 70's, There was half a dozen cows and calves up on the Custer. The next elk I saw was in the early 90 and they were better than 50 miles from my property. The first elk I saw on my property was when a lone bull passed through in September of 97. In 2001 I drew the bull tag and had no chance of filling it on our place. Got lucky and filled it close to 50 road miles away on the Custer. Elk have been increasing ever since. Now I can most likely find elk any day of the year with in ten miles of the house if I put some effort into it. It is not uncommon to see herds of 200 on the irrigated land of some of the large and lightly hunted ranches. I have even seen that many on our place on occasion. For me a herd of 200 out on the Custer or the surrounding hills is not a big issue. Get 200 on your third cutting alfalfa that is selling for 300 dollars a ton and it is an issue. This proposal will do nothing to help with crop damage. It will probably make it worse. This proposal is about upping the tolerance for elk because it is now going to be easier to get payed.
 

sacountry

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I am no biologist so that this from a landowners perspective.
The first elk I saw in SE MT was in the early 70's, There was half a dozen cows and calves up on the Custer. The next elk I saw was in the early 90 and they were better than 50 miles from my property. The first elk I saw on my property was when a lone bull passed through in September of 97. In 2001 I drew the bull tag and had no chance of filling it on our place. Got lucky and filled it close to 50 road miles away on the Custer. Elk have been increasing ever since. Now I can most likely find elk any day of the year with in ten miles of the house if I put some effort into it. It is not uncommon to see herds of 200 on the irrigated land of some of the large and lightly hunted ranches. I have even seen that many on our place on occasion. For me a herd of 200 out on the Custer or the surrounding hills is not a big issue. Get 200 on your third cutting alfalfa that is selling for 300 dollars a ton and it is an issue. This proposal will do nothing to help with crop damage. It will probably make it worse. This proposal is about upping the tolerance for elk because it is now going to be easier to get payed.
Thanks again. That's super insightful.
 

brocksw

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GG could have been a solid 8 year term guy with a chance at a higher office if he wanted it. At this point, he's got less than a 50/50 chance of winning a second term. Gonna take a lib with a solid track record of wildlife mgmt....Dan Vermilion comes to mind. He may be a little too left to win in Montana, but the way GG is going he could make Dan look attractive to the middle. Wish there was a moderate liberal out there with excellent wildlife rapport that could unseat GG.

Sorry getting off topic. I plan on breaking away from the office to hit up the Kalispell FWP office on Tuesday. Kinda wanted to road trip to Helena, but I have commitments that night.
I sure hope you're right about GGs odds at a second term. If GG and Hank got the boot after one term, the FWP staff, and all of the regular joe hunters who enjoy MT's wildlife, along with the wildlife themselves, could only describe their exit as "poophoria".
 
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TheTone

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I’d guess a lot of joe 12 pack hunters are going to see this as a good thing at face value. Getting rid of those pesky controlled hunts and giving them a chance to just go out and hunt their elk. They will fail to grasp it just benefits private landowners and those with money to get onto the good stuff, that elk aren’t truly over objective, and they are again a pawn and easy vote to those making the decisions
 

RobertD

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I’d guess a lot of joe 12 pack hunters are going to see this as a good thing at face value. Getting rid of those pesky controlled hunts and giving them a chance to just go out and hunt their elk. They will fail to grasp it just benefits private landowners and those with money to get onto the good stuff, that elk aren’t truly over objective, and they are again a pawn and easy vote to those making the decisions
Off topic but nice avatar
 

tjones

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I’m not sure the average hunter understands what’s going on. Following posts on FB on this and some how it gets spun around to a bunch of irrelevant topics.

Everything from wolves running elk to private in regions not even in the proposals to rich landowners in R1 harboring elk.

Hell I thought all the elk in R1 were ded.
 

brockel

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GG could have been a solid 8 year term guy with a chance at a higher office if he wanted it. At this point, he's got less than a 50/50 chance of winning a second term. Gonna take a lib with a solid track record of wildlife mgmt....Dan Vermilion comes to mind. He may be a little too left to win in Montana, but the way GG is going he could make Dan look attractive to the middle. Wish there was a moderate liberal out there with excellent wildlife rapport that could unseat GG.

Sorry getting off topic. I plan on breaking away from the office to hit up the Kalispell FWP office on Tuesday. Kinda wanted to road trip to Helena, but I have commitments that night.

I don’t think you realize how hard people hold on to the R or D no matter who it’s in front of or what they’ve done. That’s the way it is in my part of Montana anyways.
 

Ben Lamb

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I’m not sure the average hunter understands what’s going on. Following posts on FB on this and some how it gets spun around to a bunch of irrelevant topics.

Everything from wolves running elk to private in regions not even in the proposals to rich landowners in R1 harboring elk.

Hell I thought all the elk in R1 were ded.

Never read the FB comments. That way lies madness.
 

brocksw

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I don’t think you realize how hard people hold on to the R or D no matter who it’s in front of or what they’ve done. That’s the way it is in my part of Montana anyways.
This right here.

At least half, if not significantly more, of the people who voted for GG will vote for him again just because of the R next to his name. The actual issues and political stances are minor details.
 
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