Caribou Gear

mrna and cwd?

7Bartman

Active member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
130
Location
Maryland
Wow, hopefully I can clarify some of the misinformation on this thread. While there is a ton of promise for mRNA vaccines (e.g. think a personalized mRNA targeted to a cancer in your own body). I don't see a mRNA vaccine treating a human spongiform encephalopathy (e.g. Jakob-Creutzfeldt disease).
Now when it comes to mRNA there actually is some potential hope for human prion diseases. Antisense oligonucleotides can be used to silence the mRNA for the human prion protein (PRP).
 

Hunting Wife

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
2,713
Location
Almost North Dakota, not quite Canada
correct, however possibilities of a virus causing the formation of a prion
This has been speculated for years, essentially by one researcher. Many others have spent millions of dollars looking for a viral or bacterial initiator of prions, with zero success. This is generally not considered to be true, despite one or two vocal folks espousing it whose work raises quality red flags and can’t be replicated. Every few years when their funding gets sparse, they come out and peddle their same old hypothesis to drum up funding. Even these guys have made zero progress or new findings on this supposed virus or bacteria in a couple of decades. Not very strong support for their assertions at all.

The prion protein is an incorrect folding of a normal protein. There is nothing for an antibody to recognize or differentiate. It isn’t the molecule or the amino acid sequence or any protein spikes that differentiate the prion from the normal protein...it’s the 3 dimensional shape of the whole big protein. That’s not something our immune system recognizes. That’s why these prions just sit there for decades, accumulating and creating larger and larger clumps of misfolded proteins.
 

JT13

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
748
Location
PA
Every few years when their funding gets sparse, they come out and peddle their same old hypothesis to drum up funding. Even these guys have made zero progress or new findings on this supposed virus or bacteria in a couple of decades.

They seek funding from the bottom of the barrel out here. They got to "Unified Sportsman of PA" a few years back. USP is an anti-government and anti-wildlife management group that believes in all manner of conspiracy theories including government stocking of coyotes, wolves, and mountain lions. To put it plainly, a bunch of morons.

See their set up from the Great American Outdoors Show 20190206_133438.jpg
 

JT13

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
748
Location
PA
Is that a chupacabra in the glass case?
Something like that?

You cant see it but on the other end of the table past the propanganda is a full body mount of a 100+ pound wolf allegedly killed recently in northcentral PA.

Morons

Edit: if you zoom in to the right of the chupacabra you can see mention of the LSU scientist CWD breakthrough...
 
  • Haha
Reactions: JLS

7Bartman

Active member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
130
Location
Maryland
They seek funding from the bottom of the barrel out here. They got to "Unified Sportsman of PA" a few years back. USP is an anti-government and anti-wildlife management group that believes in all manner of conspiracy theories including government stocking of coyotes, wolves, and mountain lions. To put it plainly, a bunch of morons.

See their set up from the Great American Outdoors Show View attachment 183972
Yeah, I had the displeasure of stopping by the both to discuss the science with them. I quickly found out that they had no clue what they were talking about.
 

2rocky

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
3,188
A feed store with a feed solution... hmmmm
Well the feed ground issue in Wyoming has an opportunity to perhaps implement increased copper levels and see if it reduces CWD spread and infection.

FWIW L&E has a lot of Texas Deer Ranches as clients so it is in their wheel house and of course they have a vested interest.
 

Hunting Wife

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
2,713
Location
Almost North Dakota, not quite Canada
Well the feed ground issue in Wyoming has an opportunity to perhaps implement increased copper levels and see if it reduces CWD spread and infection.

FWIW L&E has a lot of Texas Deer Ranches as clients so it is in their wheel house and of course they have a vested interest.
But feedground elk are not deficient in copper, which would make “boosting copper” unwise and potentially toxic.

Nutrition in ruminants is extremely well studied. Copper has never been implicated in Mad Cow, and we may know more about beef nutrition than any other animal on the planet. I don’t think this sounds very plausible.
 

2rocky

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
3,188
But feedground elk are not deficient in copper, which would make “boosting copper” unwise and potentially toxic.

Nutrition in ruminants is extremely well studied. Copper has never been implicated in Mad Cow, and we may know more about beef nutrition than any other animal on the planet. I don’t think this sounds very plausible.
HW you may have a similar background as I do in cattle nutrition. I just think it is an interesting proposition... Copper absorption can be affected by Molybdenum levels too, hence the AA-Chelate form of Supplementation. I'm wondering if CWD incidence areas are typically Cu deficient or high Mo. I do know any sick animal is going to be deficient in a wide variety of minerals and B- Vitamins.

df7b3a56-f09f-4542-b1d8-934326a6734f-FC_CO_CWD_MAP_TOWNS_ENHANCED.jpg




CWD-Map_Deer_May-2019-Final-770x570.png


image



And are they dealing with Slight Cu deficiency? i know my cows breed up better and have slicker haircoats when on a Micromineral supplementation program.

figure-mineral-status.png


There are some counties in Eastern CO lower in Cu than non CWD areas....I'd love to see a comparison...Like I said , It is an interesting hypothesis...

usa.gif
legend.gif
 
Last edited:

Hunting Wife

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
2,713
Location
Almost North Dakota, not quite Canada
It is interesting, and the role of copper hasn’t been ignored in the research though it generally occurs at the molecular level. My background is wildlife health and disease, though not specifically nutrition. I’ll work through my logic. Not picking a fight, just working through my rationale for sake of discussion.

If, hypothetically, there was a widespread deficiency in copper, there are numerous other health or disease issues that we would expect to see crop up both in livestock using the same range and in wild cervids. We just don’t see a pattern like that. In my former job, we submitted hundreds, if not thousands, of samples from feedground elk as well as free-ranging cervids over the Rocky Mountain/Great Plains region and have never seen large-scale patterns of abnormalities in metals. To me, that just doesn’t really point to a copper deficiency of the magnitude necessary to account for the modern distribution of CWD.

There has certainly been research regarding copper binding and prions. It has been understood for quite a while that copper ions are involved in protein folding. I was curious where that stands now, so googled to see the status of current research. Found this article, which provides a pretty decent synopsis.


In short, all of the research points to PrP having a roll in copper binding and/or regulation or modulation of copper levels in the body. That’s progress, because no one knew what the heck normal prion proteins even did for a long time. But half the research suggests copper stabilizes prions, and half suggests it might actually cause beta folding. So there is no agreement at all as to whether copper is good, or bad with regard to prion diseases.

I also don’t see a compelling explanation or data to suggest a continent-wide shift in copper of such a magnitude as to cause explosion of a disease in a few decades, with no other evidence of a new proliferation of copper deficiency. That intuitively doesn’t make sense but maybe that’s not really what you are suggesting either.

I totally acknowledge I am jaded on this subject at this point, but I am highly skeptical whenever someone suggests the cause of CWD is something simple and fundamental. Particularly when the “cure” is only really supported by one party (and no real data) with a financial interest in said cure, or when the cure justifies a behavior (in this case, artificial feeding and supplements) that is widely considered to be detrimental with regard to the problem in question.

I don’t know what the cure will be for CWD, but I am not optimistic it will be something simple.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
96,863
Messages
1,469,619
Members
30,469
Latest member
AlexT.
Top