Ollin Magnetic Digiscoping System

Montana mule deer rant

Gerald Martin

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I heard an interesting perspective from a native Montanan here at work. He is firmly in the opportunity side, mentioned the Hunting heritage/tradition. "Freedom is easy to lose and hard to get back". His take is that we need to keep hunters on the landscape, any and all voluntary reductions in hunters feeds into the anti-hunting hand, effectively doing their job for them. The more hunters we can retain the higher likelihood that hunting continues as a worthwhile endeavor that society as a whole can accept.

And I believe he is dead wrong.
Having a lot of hunters to maintain visibility and by extension, acceptance and support among the general public, is only as effective as hunters are seen as responsible stewards of wildlife resources and good neighbors.

When hunters are a demonstrable cause for the decline of wildlife rather than the increase of wildlife, the 93% of the non-hunting public can be more easily swayed to restrict hunting at the ballot box.

Acceptable of historical cultural practices only lasts as long as positive opinion of those practices.
 

neffa3

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Wenatchee
And I believe he is dead wrong.
Having a lot of hunters to maintain visibility and by extension, acceptance and support among the general public, is only as effective as hunters are seen as responsible stewards of wildlife resources and good neighbors.

When hunters are a demonstrable cause for the decline of wildlife rather than the increase of wildlife, the 93% of the non-hunting public can be more easily swayed to restrict hunting at the ballot box.

Acceptable of historical cultural practices only lasts as long as positive opinion of those practices.
Maybe, but you're basing that on a logical conclusion to a known condition. I would argue we have multiple real world example test cases that you're dead wrong. That it doesn't matter how great of stewards hunters are, if they dwindle in numbers they will find greater societal animosity
 

DougStickney

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D028CBD4-D4AF-415F-A7F3-460A7EA85093.jpeg
Woke up to gun shots and these guys tromping in my backyard chasing a wounded deer this am. Even the subdivision deer aren’t safe. 6 vehicles parked on 1 state section on the way to work. If mule deer hunting was on the ballot box I would vote to end it. Might be the only way to save what we have left. The fish and game gave these hunters tags and the desperation to fill them led them to do something stupid. Things have gone way too far. I can’t wait for the season to end. Truly a disgusting time to be a sportsman in Montana.
 

madtom

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WY
Some of the data for the special hunt districts is WAY above 10% (which I thought was reasonable).

See attached link for AHM report for mule deer. Lots of data in there. I wish FWP would make it easier to see this data. Maybe create a data repository on the website?

For the TLDR-crowd, here is a sample.

Special Management District History: HD 652 has been regulated by limited permit buck harvest since 1987. Post-season buck:doe ratios averaged 72:100 between 1992‒2020. Buck:doe ratios have ranged from 41 to 153 bucks:100 does from 2011‒2020. The number of limited permits issued results in approximately 50% success rate, regardless of number of permits issued. HD 652 post-season surveys started in 1992 and the trend area has been surveyed every year except 1993 and 1996. Since 2004, 79% of the bucks harvested have been ≥4.5 years old and in all but three years, ≥30% (average of 53%) of the bucks have been ≥5.5 years old. Although the population density objectives are being met based on the LTA, the minimum post-season density objective has not been met in 50% of the last 20 years.
Interesting, though probably apples to oranges. I’d assume more people who draw a limited permit are more likely to hold out for nice deer than the average general unit meat pot hunter. I don’t know what the target % of mature bucks in a general unit harvest should be, but it should be enough that the deer have to be there and reasonably available to hunters for the objective to be met.

I don’t manage deer for a living, and it’s been a few months since I stayed at a holiday inn, so these thoughts are worth about what you paid for them.
 
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mtmuley

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montana
View attachment 252260
Woke up to gun shots and these guys tromping in my backyard chasing a wounded deer this am. Even the subdivision deer aren’t safe. 6 vehicles parked on 1 state section on the way to work. If mule deer hunting was on the ballot box I would vote to end it. Might be the only way to save what we have left. The fish and game gave these hunters tags and the desperation to fill them led them to do something stupid. Things have gone way too far. I can’t wait for the season to end. Truly a disgusting time to be a sportsman in Montana.
You catch those dipshits? mtmuley
 

338win

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Sep 19, 2015
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View attachment 252260
Woke up to gun shots and these guys tromping in my backyard chasing a wounded deer this am. Even the subdivision deer aren’t safe. 6 vehicles parked on 1 state section on the way to work. If mule deer hunting was on the ballot box I would vote to end it. Might be the only way to save what we have left. The fish and game gave these hunters tags and the desperation to fill them led them to do something stupid. Things have gone way too far. I can’t wait for the season to end. Truly a disgusting time to be a sportsman in Montana.
Are they cognitively disabled or is there some weird gray area that makes the area look like it’s public?(There is a public easement between 2 driveways that I use)
 

Greenhorn

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MONTANA
View attachment 252260
Woke up to gun shots and these guys tromping in my backyard chasing a wounded deer this am. Even the subdivision deer aren’t safe. 6 vehicles parked on 1 state section on the way to work. If mule deer hunting was on the ballot box I would vote to end it. Might be the only way to save what we have left. The fish and game gave these hunters tags and the desperation to fill them led them to do something stupid. Things have gone way too far. I can’t wait for the season to end. Truly a disgusting time to be a sportsman in Montana.
Train, Hunt, Provide, Honor.
 

SAJ-99

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Jan 5, 2019
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E Washington
View attachment 252260
Woke up to gun shots and these guys tromping in my backyard chasing a wounded deer this am. Even the subdivision deer aren’t safe. 6 vehicles parked on 1 state section on the way to work. If mule deer hunting was on the ballot box I would vote to end it. Might be the only way to save what we have left. The fish and game gave these hunters tags and the desperation to fill them led them to do something stupid. Things have gone way too far. I can’t wait for the season to end. Truly a disgusting time to be a sportsman in Montana.
The subdivision ever think of joining block management?
 

DougStickney

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You catch those dipshits? mtmuley
They didn’t ask for permission they asked for forgiveness. I was late for work I told them to go clean up their mess. Local guys, had permission on my neighbors 10 acres. I think this is where I’m not supposed to judge people, they were just hunting for a quality experience and meat in a subdivision. Hunters are extremely desperate this year.
 

mtmuley

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montana
They didn’t ask for permission they asked for forgiveness. I was late for work I told them to go clean up their mess. Local guys, had permission on my neighbors 10 acres. I think this is where I’m not supposed to judge people, they were just hunting for a quality experience and meat in a subdivision. Hunters are extremely desperate this year.
You are a nicer person than I am. There is about 200 head of elk bedded on the private land East of my house. Could get interesting. mtmuley
 

DougStickney

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They are, but unfortunately I think there's some mental stigma of tag soup failure that fuels a lot of this insanity
Agreed, top that with rutting bucks and the temptation is just too much for some people. Moving the season out of the rut would solve a lot of problems. This is the 3rd year in a row I am happily eating my tag. Sundown tomorrow can’t come quick enough.
 

brockel

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Baker,MT
Looks like the gram and Facebook are heating up folks...

Numerous quality mature bucks taking the dirt nap this weekend.

#sendit
Agreed, top that with rutting bucks and the temptation is just too much for some people. Moving the season out of the rut would solve a lot of problems. This is the 3rd year in a row I am happily eating my tag. Sundown tomorrow can’t come quick enough.

Hey wait a minute. Don’t forget about smoke pole traditional season. Seasons are just to short didn’t have enough time to get out so I’m going to have to buy a muzzleloader
#keepingmyheritagealive
#smellthesmokeintheair
 

brockel

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Baker,MT
Heard talk around here that the standing grass we have now is testing at extremely low protein. Some even down to 2%. Better hope we don’t get the winter they are saying we are suppose to get.
 

EYJONAS!

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Hey wait a minute. Don’t forget about smoke pole traditional season. Seasons are just to short didn’t have enough time to get out so I’m going to have to buy a muzzleloader
#keepingmyheritagealive
#smellthesmokeintheair
I honestly can't believe we've never seen a Daniel Boone Brockels Custom Range Em and Eliminate Em 1778 Series Smoke Pole.

Am I disappointed...... Your fukn-a-Rite I am.

What's it gonna take to get a #brockelcustoms long range blow your face up powder burner built?

#boone
#daveycrocket
#coonskin
#powderburnz
#aimhighletemfly
#December
#earlyxmas
#daddysgotanewtoy
#daddysgotanewGF
#olmills
#HTsmokepoleASSASSNZ
#teasers
#nothinunder2
 

brockel

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May 13, 2016
Messages
4,202
Location
Baker,MT
I honestly can't believe we've never seen a Daniel Boone Brockels Custom Range Em and Eliminate Em 1778 Series Smoke Pole.

Am I disappointed...... Your fukn-a-Rite I am.

What's it gonna take to get a #brockelcustoms long range blow your face up powder burner built?

#boone
#daveycrocket
#coonskin
#powderburnz
#aimhighletemfly
#December
#earlyxmas
#daddysgotanewtoy
#daddysgotanewGF
#olmills
#HTsmokepoleASSASSNZ
#teasers
#nothinunder2

36378E1A-FF0A-4F0E-B5C0-F535E27DDF1F.gif
 
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