Montana FWP pheasant scam

Gellar

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If kids think walking around in the outdoors actually hunting wild birds is a sufferfest, they aren't ever going to become hunters.

I have an idea, if you want these kind of programs, then YOU find a way to fund them with private funds.

I don't want my license money to fund this kind of crap.

Take them to a private shooting reserve and pay for it out of your pocket.
The pheasant hunt I put on is funded by pheasants forever, not your license fees.
 

OntarioHunter

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If a kid has the interest to spend the time and $$$ to finish a hunters ed course, what is the sense of introducing him to a totally false perception of what hunting really is by taking him out in the field and throwing dumb flightless pen raised birds in the air with a machine? To "get young hunters started?" What direction are they headed? Makes no sense. None.
 

Gellar

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If a kid has the interest to spend the time and $$$ to finish a hunters ed course, what is the sense of introducing him to a totally false perception of what hunting really is by taking him out in the field and throwing dumb flightless pen raised birds in the air with a machine? To "get young hunters started?" What direction are they headed? Makes no sense. None.
Hunters Ed is free. Kids don’t have to pay for it because of the Pittman Robertson act. If you don’t want your kids to participate that’s great, don’t participate. Chances are the people that are volunteering their time to put these classes and programs on don’t want you there anyways.
 

OntarioHunter

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Hunters Ed is free. Kids don’t have to pay for it because of the Pittman Robertson act. If you don’t want your kids to participate that’s great, don’t participate. Chances are the people that are volunteering their time to put these classes and programs on don’t want you there anyways.
It's not about what I want for my kid's ... it's about what they want. If they want to take hunters ed then they presumably want to learn to HUNT. If keeping them interested requires lots of action shooting at moving targets thrown by a machine without much physical effort, they should be going to a trap/skeet range. That is not the definition of hunting.
 

TheTone

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Some entitled Utards are now asking that the DNR release pen raised turkeys during the fall turkey season. Once the handouts and participation trophies start, there is no end.

Welcome to the tard club, Tanatards! 😉
I unfortunately think a lot of hunters would support releasing farm elk and deer just before opening day. Think of the press releases you could do describing the age range of the released critters
 

Gellar

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It's not about what I want for my kid's ... it's about what they want. If they want to take hunters ed then they presumably want to learn to HUNT. If keeping them interested requires lots of action shooting at moving targets thrown by a machine without much physical effort, they should be going to a trap/skeet range. That is not the definition of hunting.
Is it perfect? No, but I’m doing things to help kids get out enjoy the outdoors that otherwise would not. Are you? I doubt it, yet you critique every little thing that others do that doesn’t fit your utopian idea. Time will tell but I am willing to bet with these kids in 20 years introducing theM the way that I feel works best for this situation will lead to more of them buying hunting and fishing licenses then if I took them on a hike while they were carrying guns.
 

woods89

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Is it perfect? No, but I’m doing things to help kids get out enjoy the outdoors that otherwise would not. Are you? I doubt it, yet you critique every little thing that others do that doesn’t fit your utopian idea. Time will tell but I am willing to bet with these kids in 20 years introducing theM the way that I feel works best for this situation will lead to more of them buying hunting and fishing licenses then if I took them on a hike while they were carrying guns.
Maybe, maybe not.

If exposure is the goal, why not let them tag along with some adults? Why do we think we have to put a gun in an 8-10 year olds hands so quickly?

Lastly, imagine a major news outlet running the headline "Hunting organization catapults pen raised birds for young hunters to shoot in outreach efforts." How does that get spun to the general public in a palatable way? Or are we asking for another Cecil the lion moment?
 

Hunting Wife

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Inevitably, these put and take efforts become a substitute for, and an excuse against, protecting or enhancing habitat. These programs are not sustainable long-term and are band-aids that don’t resolve any underlying problems. Ole Hank must not read. There are plenty of studies describing the very low survival of released birds.

I think small-scale local efforts for a youth hunter weekend here or there are an apples to oranges comparison though. But I also think disease issues are a valid concern with any releases of captive-reared birds.
 

406dn

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An anecdotal case, I gave my son every chance to become a hunter. As long as his grades were good, he got to miss school to hunt birds, deer and elk. I had good bird dogs when he was coming of age. He was a very good shot, right from the get go, better than I am.

I have no good idea how many pheasant he killed before he got out of high school, but it was a large number.

His first pheasant.
AB85926F-BA56-4D7E-AC26-9A33152B4634_1_100_o.jpeg

A typical opening weekend from his youth.
96C63398-90E0-4ADC-B82D-A7BAA5D3F3A6_1_201_a.jpeg

He hasn't hunted anything in ten years or more.
 

RandanP

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They are not funding prisons. They are funding a sportsman program using the prison system. Do you suggest they raise the pheasants using regular staff at $20/ hour vs the 5$/day they are paying the prisoners?

The kids already shoot clay pigeons and eat all the pizza they can eat before they go to the field so theirs no need for any of that, just wasting more sportsman dollars.

How can horsehair weaving be translated to plumbing and carpentry? raising pheasants is much more applicable to farming and raising livestock then horsehair weaving is to plumbing and carpentry.

Its not guaranteeing the kid gets the pheasant, but it is setting them up to have a more enjoyable day. You may enjoy wandering around a field for hours on end, but a 10 year old kid who just graduated hunters safety does not. They want to shoot something, its called the 5 stages of a sportsman.
If they want to put on an event of this sort, they ought to buy birds on the private market. They could get adult roosters for maybe $15/bird.

If they released 10,000 birds, and I doubt they did, we are paying $100/bird. And that is with half hens!

They have forgotten the 4th R: return on investment. This is nothing more than shameful pork-barrel spending and financial malfeasance.
 

Art Vandeley

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Great Falls, MT
An anecdotal case, I gave my son every chance to become a hunter. As long as his grades were good, he got to miss school to hunt birds, deer and elk. I had good bird dogs when he was coming of age. He was a very good shot, right from the get go, better than I am.

I have no good idea how many pheasant he killed before he got out of high school, but it was a large number.

His first pheasant.
View attachment 241323

A typical opening weekend from his youth.
View attachment 241325

He hasn't hunted anything in ten years or more.
Yep and I would bet when he was in his youth, it was easier to get access to private lands, there were more birds on both public and private lands, and public lands weren't crowded
 

ElkFever2

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Iowa
I tagged along many times grouse hunting as a kid. When it was finally time to carry a gun, I shot one of the first flushes. I was proud of that bird and I still remember my uncle not believing I actually hit it. I’m thankful that was my first experience killing an animal and not something like the MT program described.
 

neffa3

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Wenatchee
He hasn't hunted anything in ten years or more.
I'm a little late to this thread. and this isn't really a relevant question. But why? It appears he was very into hunting for quite a while. Any ideas why he longer pursues it?

I ask because I've thought about RRR a lot and still don't have any answers.
 

406dn

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I'm a little late to this thread. and this isn't really a relevant question. But why? It appears he was very into hunting for quite a while. Any ideas why he longer pursues it?

I ask because I've thought about RRR a lot and still don't have any answers.

I've never asked him directly, it's his business, not mine.

I'd speculate that his other interests edge it out. Also, he never really enjoyed eating wild game, so maybe he listened to one of my sermons, if you kill an animal, it needs to be eaten.
 

elkduds

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CO Springs.
Seems simple enough for FWP to arrange w commercial bird hunting operations to provide access for young "hunters" that want this. Those places are already in the put-and-take pheasant business.

I don't see this strategy growing the sport of hunting or recruiting very many lifelong hunters.
 

Eric Albus

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Yeah, this is a total waste of money and effort.

Also, having novice hunters shooting at poor flying birds is a bad recipe.

Many years ago now, I volunteered to participate in a youth pheasant hunt put on by the local Pheasant's Forever chapter. Never again. Most of the birds could not get more that a few feet off the ground. Most of the shots the young hunters were offered were not safe. But a young hunter hoping to kill their first bird...many of those shots were taken. It was a small miracle no one got shot. I know my dog nearly was.

Recruiting new hunters is a challenge. I think a better way is to do what was done a while ago. That is to push the opening date for non resident pheasant hunters to one week after the opener for residents. That would reduce the crowds considerably in the better pheasant areas. That would allow a father and son, uncle and niece, whoever, to get a first crack at wild birds that are as easy as they ever will be.
NR one week later and can only buy 3 day license good for 2-4(maybe less, maybe more) 3 day periods during the pheasant season.
 

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